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Can i get away with no Grain Filler?


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Hi Guys, I'm having the worst time trying to find Grain Filler! I've tried B&Q, Homebase, etc (UK Stores) and all they have is wood filler!

I'm gonna use halford's grey primer below blue metallica paint, do you think I could get away with not using grain filler using this primer? It's a primer meant for car paint jobs!

Cheers mateys!

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Grain filler, wood filler, its all the same stuff. Also known as putty, wood bog, goo, gunk, etc etc.

Nuh-huh. Wood filler is thick snotty crap for bodgers to fill gaps, repair holes and mask ill fitting joints. Grain filler is just for filling the grain. You can probably get away with using wood filler under an opaque colour, but I wouldn't advise it for anything else.

Maybe this is one of those divided by a common language things...

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Stewmac sells it and it can be shipped internationally as its water based, ie. non-flammable. You can get away without it, depends on what kind of wood you are playing with but there are definitely some drawbacks. If you are working with mahogany I would suggest finding something that will fill. If you don't use it and want a clear, smooth finish prepare to use LOTS of clearcoat. Substituting laquer or polyurethane to fill grain takes a long time to get to the wetsanding stage. And even when you DO manage to achieve a smooth finish you will find that your poly or laquer continues to shrink into the grain months after the guitar has been finished.

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Grain filler, wood filler, its all the same stuff. Also known as putty, wood bog, goo, gunk, etc etc.

Nuh-huh. Wood filler is thick snotty crap for bodgers to fill gaps, repair holes and mask ill fitting joints. Grain filler is just for filling the grain. You can probably get away with using wood filler under an opaque colour, but I wouldn't advise it for anything else.

Maybe this is one of those divided by a common language things...

You might be right but Docaroo already said he is finishing with blue metallic paint, no need to see the wood thru it :D , so the wood filler will work to get the smooth finish.

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QUOTE (Setch @ Jul 10 2004, 11:13 AM)

QUOTE (rhoads56 @ Jul 10 2004, 03:50 PM)

Grain filler, wood filler, its all the same stuff. Also known as putty, wood bog, goo, gunk, etc etc. 

Nuh-huh. Wood filler is thick snotty crap for bodgers to fill gaps, repair holes and mask ill fitting joints. Grain filler is just for filling the grain. You can probably get away with using wood filler under an opaque colour, but I wouldn't advise it for anything else.

Maybe this is one of those divided by a common language things... 

You might be right but Docaroo already said he is finishing with blue metallic paint, no need to see the wood thru it  , so the wood filler will work to get the smooth finish.

Maiden, have you used these products, so you know what is actually being discussed? I mean, have you had a can of each of them opened up in front of you before?

'Cuz I agree with Setch. They are 2 completely different products, and if you have used each of them yourself, I don't think you would be posting what you did. My guess.... :D

Using wood putty to fill grain would be like filling your crankcase with grease instead of oil. :D:D:D:DB)B)B)

Now, if you want to get technical about it, you probably 'could' find out what the solvent is for wood putty, thin it down to the consistency of grain filler, and use it as grain filler, but that's just getting kinda stoopid.

PS, you could use 2-part epoxy or CA glue as your grain filler also, good substitutes, maybe better than real grain filler, there's almost no shrinkback with these 2 products. B)B)

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CA works great for filling grain, and sands out nice and smooth. Just remember to wear eye protection - the fumes are harsh! Like Drak mentioned, near zero shrink, and it's ready to work quick. I have had it cloud up a bit under humid conditions, but under a painted finish that won't matter.

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Grain filler, wood filler, its all the same stuff. Also known as putty, wood bog, goo, gunk, etc etc.

Nuh-huh. Wood filler is thick snotty crap for bodgers to fill gaps, repair holes and mask ill fitting joints. Grain filler is just for filling the grain. You can probably get away with using wood filler under an opaque colour, but I wouldn't advise it for anything else.

Maybe this is one of those divided by a common language things...

Hmmm, ok, got some brand names for me to look out for? In all my years of cabinet making and guitar making, ive never seen "grain filler", only wood putty of various consistancy. But most Aussie timbers arent really porous anyway, so maybe thats why i havent seen grain filler. The wood putty i use is tintable, water based, and dries quick, so i havent really even looked at alternatives for years... maybe its time!

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The 2 cans on the bottom are grain fillers, even tho the Pore-O-Pac says wood filler, you'll notice it states 'combustible liquid' at the bottom.

These are used to fill grain and level-sand or wipe back off.

The Elmers is a thick paste for filling in big holes, like router tearout or something like that.

The Pore-O-Pac is oil-based, the other is obviously waterbased.

Grain fillers and wood fillers, there is a difference. :D

Grain%20Filler.jpg

And for the technical perticulars, Bada-Bing! Here you have it.

Wood%20Filler.jpg

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Yeah, shellac would work too as long as you use dewaxed.

I like the 2-part epoxy or the CA because they're harder than almost anything else, so they'll provide a good hard basecoat, and the no shrink-back is good too.

I've had those cans of grain filler for years, seldom use them for much anymore really.

The oil-based you have to let dry for at least 10 days, and the water-based dries very very fast, like 10 minutes, and any pigment you mix into it comes out rather opaque and unnatractive.

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Drak, I know they are two different things, I have never used the thick wood filler thought, I always get the wery liquid one, specially the ones alcohol based, I have tried water based but I had to wait a long time before being able to sand... and I thpought the discussion point above me was refering about the fact that some wood filler can leave patches of different color, hence the fact that I added that it didn't matter since he had already stated that he was finishing in a solid color. I really don't use the grain filler unless I wan't to show the grain or stain in the case of the work that I usualy do, I'm starting in guitars but I've been working with wood since about 14, I'm 35 now. I will be using the stew mac grain filler or the re-rack one since I'm planning on making a strat body from Mahogany and then painting it see thru blue... please correct me if I'm wrong because maybe it's different for finishing guitars, But like I said, he had mentioned that he was using a solid color, so my guess was that he didn't ha to bother ordering a grain filler from here the USA if iot was so difficult to get it were he was, heck I have even used a heavy build polyester primer on some of my work.

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Yeah that's correct and all that, I thought you were referring to using wood putty tho, which 'can' be used, but I believe in using the right product if it's easily available to you, so I had a problem with recommending someone use wood putty, unless they were in a -serious- pinch, in which case THEN you're being, well, creative!

B):D:D

Good luck with the Mahogony Strat. :D

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I always spell Mahogony like that!

Hmmm, Mahogony w/ translucent blue huh?

If I were doing that, I would bleach the Mahogony first. Blue over brown is kinda yechhy. Bleach it, then dye it a -very- light shade of blue, finish it clear, then shoot your trans blue over that.

You can even bleach it, then add some blue into your grain filler (tinted filler) to do the same thing basically. But try to get rid of as much brown first as you can. :D

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umm... is grain filler really THAT needed?! i mean it's a perfectly flat sanded piece of wood, sure it'll make it even flatter but damn minutely

you could get away with just some sanding sealer sprayed on right?

just seems sometimes people obsess over unnoticable differences

(aaahhhh the flames! the flames!!)

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Ki.. grain filler is needed in woods that have alot of wide pores in it. Such as mahogany and ash. The Swamp Ash wood that we can get in our area real easy is about as bad as it gets, and you must use a grain filler if you seek a nice flat surface. You might try to spray some shellac or lacquer over the body to seal the grain, but it will sink and make the guitar look awful as time goes by. Drak is correct about using CA or even epoxy as a grain filler, but I've been using the Stew Mac Waterbased Grainfiller with great success. It's worth looking into if you want a nice flat finish that won't shrink later on and works alot better than the oil based grain filler in my opinion.

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