bibleboy3 Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 Hi All, I'm on a quest for the ULTRA LOW action like Satch, vai, Gilbert what are your "secrets" to ultra low action.. I know the basics but I'm looking for the little secrets. that will make a difference. thanx in advance May Jesus bless you all sincerely, Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runfromsticks Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 im sure perfectly straight frets will help...my old squier had uneven frets and there was massive fret buzz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truerussian558 Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 a properly set up guitar, and terrfic fretwork. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goth_fiend Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 I second a good setup and fretwork, but vais action is not as low as you think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 Leveling the board and frets under simulated string tension - " neck-jig". Doing this creates the ideal amount of "fall away" in the upper register. But some guys go adding more "fall away", which can be too much, and cause buzzing in some areas on the neck. Guys that don't use a " neck-jig" create fallaway by jacking their leveling block to level in a tapered position at the end of the neck. If all goes right, it gets close to the " neck jig" method after the guitar is strung up and t-rod adjusted. I'm going to start offering this method as an option to my customers because it's cheaper. Also, guys like Satriani have different guitars set up different ways. Some guitars are set real low to be better for tapping, while others have a higher action for aggressive rhythm work. Guys like us who can't have so many guitars have to find a happy medium. Although I get my own guitars set plenty low. Then there's PLek ( a robot that supposedly grinds frets perfectly for the lowest action). But I've heard someone say recently that their guitar with fret-work done by hand (non-Plek) plays better than 2 guitars they had Plek do. Also, if you want the strings down really low, you can't pick really hard, or you'll get buzzing. By the way, does anyone know the specs for Eric Johnson's guitar set-up ? I think it's in one of those popular books. I'm curious about his action height, amount of neck relief. I'll probably have to go to the music store and look through that book. (sick of buying books. I have too many) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Bell Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 By the way, does anyone know the specs for Eric Johnson's guitar set-up ? I think it's in one of those popular books. I'm curious about his action height, amount of neck relief. I'll probably have to go to the music store and look through that book. (sick of buying books. I have too many) According to the book "How to Make Your Electric Guitar Play Great!" his action at the 17th fret is 5/64'' on both the high and low E. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 By the way, does anyone know the specs for Eric Johnson's guitar set-up ? I think it's in one of those popular books. I'm curious about his action height, amount of neck relief. I'll probably have to go to the music store and look through that book. (sick of buying books. I have too many) According to the book "How to Make Your Electric Guitar Play Great!" his action at the 17th fret is 5/64'' on both the high and low E. Interesting that it's that high. You'd think by the way he sounds, it would be about half that high. Those guys just have really strong hands and hard-tipped fingers from playing so much. Thanks for the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazyderek Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 many of the great players play with rediculusly HIGH action in fact... johnson plays a strat so it doesn't suprise me that it's rather high... chet atkins is another good example, played with extremely high action. I'd hasard a guess that SRV also played with some fairly high action aswell, satriani also seems like he'd need some high action for all the trem work he does. I've noticed exactly what soap is talking about aswell. After leving my frets and setting the action super low it was easier but i couldn't pick as hard, and bends were much tricker cause the other strings would get in the way to much. but no, i don't have any tricks as i don't really like low action Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 ok, I just measured this old Ibanez roadstar 2 that is the only electric guitar I play in Germany. Original frets, that I leveled about 4 years ago. Didn't use a "neck-jig" and didn't mill any "fall away". At the 17th fret I'm getting 4/64 " For the high E , 4.5/64" for the low E It would probably be 1/64" lower if it had been "jigged". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 Derek, why do you suppose a strat would have higher action than, say, a LP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 SRV used jumbo frets, and given the style of his rhythm work, I'll bet his action was pretty high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perhellion Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 Someone please explain "fall away". I understand what it is, basically, but not when it occurs. If the neck is strung or in a neck jig, are the last frets level, or is this when you could measure "fall away". Or, is the neck under tension, frets all level, then when you unstring it, there is fall away? What do you do with the truss rod during this? Thanks, Charles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazyderek Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 Derek, why do you suppose a strat would have higher action than, say, a LP? the radius, really round radius needs higher action so that the strings don't buzz out when you bend them high, and just fender's in general tend to be setup for higher action from the factory (or at least that's what i've noticed) then say an RG or the likes.... never really played an LP so can't comment there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soapbarstrat Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 " fall away" is when they add a "slope" to the area that the t-rod doesn't change. Then when strung up, you certainly don't have any upward hump in that area, actually a little of the opposite. But I recently asked John Suhr about it and he said when you use a "neck jig", and just level it all straight, you are already including a perfected " fall away " effect. Extra is not needed in that situation. But it probably helps to do the "fall away" thing when not using a jig. Before fret-work , you set the t-rod to where you think it should ideally be. I might have gone into more detail if I wasn't still dizzy from the awesome tool deals I got today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank falbo Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 If you're looking for "secrets" I have one. Satriani's tech does this and I mentioned it here once before. Although compound radius boards are nice, they're not really necessary before the 12th fret. So when refretting he starts to flatten the board from a 9.5" on frets 1-12 to around a 10-10.5" radius by the 22nd fret. This makes it so you always have "fall away" when you bend, but you can still have low clean action on the outer two/four strings. He then takes it a little step further and slightly compounds the fret tops too, after the 12th fret. So the real playing surface radius goes to about 11" (ha! this one goes to eleven ) My trick is to customize it a bit more. Really if you think about where we solo and bend, and how we bend notes (up or down) you'll see that the real problem areas are the B and E strings when bending upwards. Those are the notes that choke out when you're trying to get the lowest action possible. So I put the compound radius either into the board or the fret tops or both, but it begins around the 10th fret between the G and B string. Then it fans out from there, until the radius is flatter all the way across at the 22nd fret. So it makes almost like a trapezoid instead of an isosceles triangle that starts between the G and D strings. It's never failed to give me the best playability, better than compound radius. It also holds up better under temp changes and truss rod adjustments because of the "pseudo fall off" in the problem areas. The other half of the trick is not to adjust the bridge for that radius. The bridge should have the right radius to compliment the 1-12 fret radius. That's why the compounding ends up being a fall off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simo Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 many of the great players play with rediculusly HIGH action in fact... johnson plays a strat so it doesn't suprise me that it's rather high... chet atkins is another good example, played with extremely high action. I'd hasard a guess that SRV also played with some fairly high action aswell, satriani also seems like he'd need some high action for all the trem work he does. I've noticed exactly what soap is talking about aswell. After leving my frets and setting the action super low it was easier but i couldn't pick as hard, and bends were much tricker cause the other strings would get in the way to much. I agree, I've also found that pinch harmonics are harder to get when the strings are too low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyunsu Posted August 2, 2004 Report Share Posted August 2, 2004 hi.. i think Ultra low Action is depend on String's swing.. in 12 fret high .. and 0 or end postion is low.. so.. perfect stright will allway have buzz.. this pic.. i think first ultra low action is depend on fretting status.. and low action is have limmit . because of pic's String's Swing.. english is not my language.. sorry.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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