1Way

JoeAArthur (everyone) I'm struggling to figure out which way to go for the control layout. I'm going with just 2 humbuckers I want separate dedicated vol and tone controls for each pup I want variable coil tapping for each coil I want 3way switches, no 5+ways I have a total of 4 stacked concentric 500k pots (=8pot&knob sets) and a total of 3 3way switches, and I might relocate my 1/4" jack from the face to the side to allow for more controls. Imagine a guitar with one pickup and two holes for the tone and volume spots, and I want to do variable coil tapping on each coil. How about hook up both coils with their own volume controls (two knobs) in the same spot, then to adjust the volume on that humbucker, move the pair together (if they move together easily enough).

JoeAArthur Thanks much. Full volume I meant "include access up to full volume", not "always play at full volume". You said (Edited for clarification) I basically dropped the idea of one volume control for each "coil" since I found out about doing dual coil tapping on one pot, except that may cause volume level issues. I want 1-volume 1-tone 1-variable coil tap control for each pickup. That is six total pots/knobs, and not a volume control for each coil. I gladly accept a two way pot for coil splitting "if" it can be implemented without automatically halving or doubling the electronic output of either the "coil tap" or "humbucker" mode. If anything I want more beneficial options/control, not less. I wonder if I still need 2-1meg pots to take care of coil tapping both pickups, or if somehow I can make it work with 500k pots. I'd rather not go out and buy more parts if I don't really need to... I should have most of my parts in a week or so. I realize that some experimentation may apply. But it's better having a good idea about what your doing "before" modifying things.

MasterPuppets I think it bares notice that as far as I can tell, the same sort of “lethal threat” exists in any situation where you are around two very different ground/earth and voltage values. I’m not convinced that residential electric is any better than business. However, unlike an electronic guitar, in most situations electronic appliances have been constructed so that people are not exposed to the ground. I already carry a power tester, so I need to get at least one portable GFCI. You mentioned the Guitarnuts solution. I think you are referring to the use of a GFCI which is located on the left sidebar after the standard navigation links and after the outlet tester blurb. It is more of an issue of “breaking” or “shutting off” the circuit, than it is “absorption”. Mike Sulzer You said Please explain, do you mean the sidebar info on the GFCI at gutiarnuts, or, something elsewhere?

Aluminum foil. Wow, this is interesting. How does aluminum compare to copper foil? I'm looking for shielding myself and am currious about mil thickness and implimentation suggestions. Sorry MasterPuppets, I have not tried that shock prevention, but sounds like a good idea...

JoeAArthur Thanks for helping with the great layout diagram! Seems it's more handy than I at first realized. Thanks much. ... Wait, ... I have one question about your diagram. In the middle position, since the nature of a linear pot is to be full on at one end, and full off at the other, and (electrically, not volume) midpoint half way thru, so when that pot is set to humbucking (no coil tap, right in the middle position), then am I correct that both pickups are set at something less than full volume? If so, then maybe I don't like this approach so well after all... I want full volume when not coil tapping.

Lovekraft Thanks for the response. I see your point about equivalent ratios and your right in that every possible ratio is available while one (of the two coils) is set to max. Thanks much, I stand corrected. As to Oh yes, I forgot about that. I don’t know off the top of my head what the effect would be, but it would likely double or half something and that’s not acceptable. I need to change my plan. Ok, so if I use just one pot to variably coil split one humbucker pickup, then what is the best design for the volume and tone controls? At first I thought it would be cool to have a separate tone control for each coil, but maybe that is not such a great benefit, especially if having two tone controls causes a problem. Would you suggest a dedicated master volume tone variable dual acting coil tap control for each pickup? Sounds viable to me, what do you think? Suggestion 1 I just ordered 4 concentric 500k/500k CTS pots. So I’m sorta stuck with using about one hundred dollars worth(!) of pots and knobs... So far, I’d say, hook up 2 pairs of knobs for volume and tone control of each pickup. As to the 4 other pots, 1 pair for each pickup, one pot can be used for dual variable coil tapping, and the other can be used for... ? Suggestion 2 I might consider having half standard single knob controls, and the other half dual concentric for 6 pot controls total. Other recommended features besides coil tapping? I'm not sure if there are other things like series/parallel or in phase and out of phase I might be interested in. Push/push and push/pull I have a Gibson SG, which is very slim, so I’m told that I can’t use some of the push/pull type pots because they are too long, although I’ve heard of some SG’s with push/push for example, but I don’t know who makes them or if they are quality parts or not. Thanks much for explaining the coil tap function in relationship to the 4 wires! So you don't need to do anything special individually with those two wires, just leave then connected together as effectively one lead, and as diagramed eariler, either variably tap it to ground or hot to select for the one or the other coil. Pretty cool!

Scott, Would you please explain what “series link” is, and how to identify it? I understand that every pickup comes with a hot wire and a ground for the enter pickup. When you have 4 conductors and a ground, I assume that you have access to both coils in the pickup. Which somehow basically consists of two coils of spooled up wire, and each coil has two ends, hence the four wires. Thanks!

JoeAArthur First, I'm not certain about your proposal, please help me understand it. Do you mean to use a blender pot, where it’s like a single knob for treble and bass, you get only treble on full treble and only bass on full bass, but both blended in toward the middle where they are both full on. I believe that is the function you speak of, if so, it requires a “blender” pot, where they both peek at the middle position and may have a center detent position to hold that setting, and the one or the other direction bleeds off as you move away from the middle position. And, just in case, I’m not saying you can’t do that. I’m saying I’d rather have a separate volume and tone control for each coil, that is why I want so many knobs. See if I play with one volume knob to variably mix either coil in or out of the mix, then I might constantly wonder which tone knob was active or which is semi active or which is not active. With dedicated tone/volume pairs, you always know how much the tone is in effect because of the closely associated volume setting (“closely associated” in settings relationship, and in location). Also, I tend to view variable coil tapping as a one coil event, I most likely would leave it tapped at a general vicinity and make adjustments as needed, although it would be nice to be able to pan the entire variable coil tapping spectrum with one knob. So even if I had blender pots, I’d still rather have stacked concentric to keep the volume and the tone controls associated and dedicated. Also, your way does not allow mixed blending of the two coils, like 75/40, yours would always be that at least one coil is 100% full volume (or maybe its 50% each in the middle?). Not enough flexability. Then I’ll have two three way switches, each switch will be a coil selector, one switch for the neck pickup and one switch for the bridge pickup. Single coil > both coils HB > second single coil If I want only one HB or only one SC on, I’d have to turn off the other coil(s) with it’s associated volume control(s). Whenever I coil tap, you always have the one coil going weaker than the other coil, the goal of my version of variable coil tapping is not to balance out the volume levels between the two coils, the goal to discover a variable coil setting that happens to provide the best amount of mix for the particular music selection/style you are wanting to play. I find that at this stage of my rig’s underachievement (lacks upgraded pickups), that I tend to keep the guitar’s volume set to around 75% to help it remain tight. With variable coil tapping, I can increase the volume while sporting precise control over how clean I want my guitar to sound.

Unclej By being able to tap either coil exactly how much you want, you can dial in between sounds that one person said can approach a P90 sound, I think he said it was like coil tapping something modest like around 30%, so it was mostly single coil, but with more bite than if it was tapped 100%. JoeAArthur Coil tapping is tapping one coil to ground so that only the other coil works. Variable coil tapping allows you to control how much of the tapped coil gets sent to ground, and double variable coil tapping is the same thing but for both sides! I wish to have a volume and tone knob for each coil in my pair of humbuckers. Plus if you are combining single coils from a different pickup, you want to know which one you are matching up if you want it to remain humbucking. Mikhailgtrski Of special note, one can get several interesting in between sounds by variably splitting. So far I’m thinking of getting into a Bare Knuckle Mule for the bridge, maybe a Stormy Mondays for the neck later on. What kind of guitar did you match those 59’s up to?

I'm going to have a separate pot for each coil, so each coil tap adjustment will amount to a volume knob for that side of the humbucker. I don’t see any diagrams or layouts explaining how to tap both or either side of the humbucker, just a side. Some say “either side” but do “not” explain which side you get because they are apparently only concerned with tapping one side or the other, not optionally either (or both). Lets say I have 4 conductor wires coming out of my pickup and one ground shield. Can I hook up each coil to it's own volume and tone control, and thus be able to variably coil tap either side or both sides of the pickup? You can variably coil tap both sides, like cut one to 1/3 volume and the other to 2/3 volume it allow virtually any blend of coil tapping possible. I’ll have stacked concentric pots and stacked concentric knobs to allow for the extra control. So how do you hookup such a humbucker? Ground > Ground 1+ wire > 1- wire > 2- wire > 2+ wire > Lets please try to stick to layouts, I’m no good with electronic symbols.

The Fatalities, your plastic cover changing the sound compared to what? If it's compared to having a nickel or silver metal cover then yes, taking off a metal cover is said to make the pickup a bit hotter and perhaps have a bit tighter focus as the metal cover serves to attenuate and spread things out some. Having a plastic cover like EMG's is like having no cover. I don't know about the problems posting, I always suggest making sure your OS is upgraded, and your web browser as well. The following is just a guess, but if your posting while this website’s server is undergoing occasional maintenance, you “might” get an error message like that. I suggest letting someone know if the problem persists even at different times of the day. Also you might want to make sure you don’t have this problem at other similar webforums with the same kind of forum software (Invision Power Board).

How does one go about being able to selectively coil tap each side of a humbucker pickup? Here is my vague understanding of a four wire pickup. One is for ground, one is hot/signal, the other two are for coil tap and are just connected together if you don’t want to coil tap. Seems to me that somehow the hot and ground must become involved as I just do not see how one could coil tap two different halves of pickup by opening or closing one set of wires. "One connection" or "disconnection" should only produce one effect which should be to shut off (or turn back on) one half of the pickup. So the question remains, how do you coil tap the other side? Plus I understand that there are primarily two different ways to interrupt a coil tap circuit, one is to break the circuit with a switch or variably brake it with a control pot, the other is to send the signal to ground via a switch or variably with a control pot. I’m not to worried about variable coil tapping at the moment, but after I learn how the circuit works to coil tap both coils correctly, then I want to place both coil tapping functions onto separate control pots. I’ve been scanning for diagrams for how to tap both sides of a pickup, but so far no luck...

So far my Gibson SG Std pickup upgrade looks like it would be a vintage vibe PAF for the bridge, and a P90 in the neck, or I’m also considering adding a P90 in the middle for some exciting pickup combinations. However, I've heard that some do not like using a third pickup because it gets in the way when digging in (deep) with picking. I suppose one could lower the middle pickup somewhat, but then you quickly loose more and more peak performance so you can't do that too much. If this issue is too much of a problem, then I would resign to a double pickup setup to allow plenty of room for deep picking. I would not think such a thing would be a problem, but I’ve scarcely even demoed a triple pickup guitar. However I've heard it from more than one source that sometimes players complain about triple pickups because of occasionally interfering with picking. Is this a big deal or not so much? Does a middle position third pickup get in the way of picking for you, or is it something one learns gets accustomed to?

PSW, I was wondering if you have given it much thought about using optical pickups which are impervious to magnetism and would let your driver be stationed anywhere. I've never used them, just wondered what your thoughts are about them...

I am confused about something, probably mostly from not understanding things well enough. When I was in school many years ago, I thought that; - a magnet had a North and a South pole - the magnetic field runs from one pole to the other, they do not go in both directions But, in your graphic, the single coil example show a north south pole relationship where the magnetic field goes in two different directions depending upon what part of the polar end you are looking at. North inward, the field goes out away, North outwards the field is returning. (!?!) I would never assume this to be the case. =========Quote========= ========EndQuote======== I thought part of the definition of a “magnetic pole” would conform to the idea that the direction of the field is concentrated (moreso as we look at the field lines that are closer to the magnet) and going in one (general) direction. I don't mean to detract from this thread's focus with this sideline curiosity. One issue I see, might be about the physical connection between the "magnet" poles. Maybe the two magnets shown are "not" physically connected somehow. The graphic show's them separated by the coil, but I don't know if they might be connected in the middle of the coil and we can't see it or not. So if this is a physically seperate dual magnet thing, that would point to a configuration I simply am not familiar with... However, "if" the entire top magnet is N and the entire bottom magnet is south, then I would assume that the mag>coil>mag configuration is forcing that relationship and thus effectively couples the two magnets to act like one. Hense my confusion/lack of understanding. I don't believe you can have an isolated magnet with just one pole, they always have a different pole at opposing ends, incoming and outgoing.

Thanks PSW, I got FEMM to work with your added instructions. The problem was as simple as explaining if by box, you mean the (one) little square dot, or place 4 of them to create another box shape. I just sent you an email about FEMM in the subject. I don't want to sidetrack your discussion, but on a bar magnet, isn't it the ends where the North or South polarization is located, or is it the sides and top and bottom? DRIVER W/PICKUP COMBO Wow, so are you basically saying that on the same humbucker pickup, you can remove one coil and replace it with a driver, AND after you have done that, the pickup side of the combo pup can still work as a pickup? Is that pup humbucking, or at least somewhat so? And from all the pics I've seen, I don't understand why your driver, which looks very low profile, would have a hard time fitting into the pup area. ... Or, did you put it on top of the pup?

So, has anyone else been able to download the FEMM program and get it to work according to the tutorials given? So far I can, start the program, pick a magnetic project, and that’s it. If I can’t get the hang of it after getting started, fine, but I’d like to at least get started giving it a try... Anyone?

With over a thousand responses, and a view factor of x35! I'd say it's quite popular with many people! I think your typical thread has more like a x5 to x10 ratio. In fact, I think it’s rare to get over a factor of 20, but I’m no expert. So apparently it's strongly attracting both responders and onlookers alike.

Seems like I need a separate thread for starting me out on the FEMM program. I can't get it to work. I start out fine, then when stuff is supposed to work, it doesn't and I don't know what I did wrong to correct things. I tried following your guide and sorry to say it was of no help getting me started. This is the extent of what I have learned to do so far, start the program, pick a magnetic project, and that’s it. Something one step at a time, with responsive feedback to confirm you have done the right thing each time would be great. BTW, if I drop out of the loop for a while, I assure you it’s not intentional, times are tough, I’m facing loosing my utilities soon.

Ugh, I just tried to follow the totorial on magnatism, and it did not work. I could not get it to create the line that was supposed to be automatically drawn after placing the first two boundery dots as per the top of page three. I have been a CAD draftsman, I've built PC's, took colege level programming, I love tackling such problems, but I need help here.

Thanks for the welcome and interesting discussion, the pleasure is mine. Several things keep going on in my mind when considering these things. One is about your individual pole per string hex driver which is very hard to reproduce. Please clarify essentially why that design is so hard to replicate by home brew. How is your hex version w/6 poles different from simply having 6 “mini me’s” of the large one? On another note, instead of using just one driver, how about 2? For example have one for the wound and one for the unwound strings. Such isolation might greatly facilitate adjusting the strength desired for thicker and thinner strings, specifically making it easier to increase the driving effect for the unwound strings. I downloaded the FEMM program and I was happy to find it has an electrostatic and magnetic tutorial in PDF format. Man I wish my life was not so filled with stressful problems, or I would gladly contribute more time into such a fun and instructive project! Please, whatever happens, hang in there, don’t give up. Things have a way of working out over time. It would help matters if I had a fundamental grasp of how a pickup works. I only generally know that the strings interfere with the magnetic field and is thus responsible for generating an electronic signal in the coil(s) which is sent to the amp. Do you know of any graphic tutorial for learning the basics of pickup function and design? Preferably something like a video entitled pickups for dummies. And one for the physics of the associated electronics, magnetism, and other such energy emitting fields. Do you have other sound examples that might grab broader/stronger interest? Maybe something like a memorable rock tune segment, first without, and then with the sustainer added. Because in all fairness, and with all due respect, I do not want to sound a lot like the only two sound samples I’ve heard so far, which forces me to extrapolate how such a device “might” be used in a way that I would like to use it. And “sometimes” in life, such wishful thinking simply does not pan out. I’ve been interested in devices that promote “singing” or “infinite” sustain for a long time. I like to be able to play at modest volumes that normally require very loud volumes, such as controlled feedback caused by the acoustic coupling between the pup and speaker. I nearly always stand with my pups pointed at my speakers in order to enhance such enjoyable effects that are hard, but not impossible, to get in a low volume setting. If you end up getting into (phantom power) via A/C or a larger battery power setup like that 9volt retail box shown earlier, would you consider going with a headstock driver setup? What about the guitars that come factory equipped with a speaker near the neck and middle position? How do they get away with that much magnetic power going into a speaker motor that close to the pickup without suffering from the problems you speak of with your device? Mabye that’s an example of a magnetic field that crosses into the path of the pickups field, and therefore effects the tone, but is done in an evidently acceptable way. I wonder if they use some special shielding techniques that could benefit this project.

PSW I also have a messed up life, welcome to the club brother! In between jobs and all right now. But I'm wondering about improvements along the lines of containing or focusing or partially shielding/directing the waves in such a way as to allow closer placement of the driver to the pups. I only read the last several pages, so sorry if this has already been covered. As stevenhoneywell said, he would not use one if he had to sacrifice the sonic benefit of using the bridge and neck pups. I'm of a similar mindset, but I would love to eventually have such a unit, even with the neck pup restriction, but if that restriction remains, then it would go on maybe my 3rd guitar, and that's years away for me. You said Focused Shielding There may be essentially four kinds of shielding that we could consider. Those can be grouped into two categories, proximity and type. Proximity would be one set of shielding for the outgoing emi(?) local to the driver, and the other shielding local to the pups. Then there's type which also has two kinds, deflection and absorption, I'm thinking of materials like lead for absorption and steal for deflection. An implementation idea, or mandate (chuckles), is to have these customized reflector shield's designed to just clear your strings. The goal is to inhibit or redirect the field generated by the driver in such a way as to focus it on the strings (good side benefit) instead of toward the pups, and thus restrict the horizontal plane field activity that is the problem for your pups. What material works best for shielding/absorption? What material works best reflection/deflection? What shape(s) works best for deflection for the driver and pups? Thanks for your contributions, obviously there is much interest, but the process will likely be a lengthy one as some would not buy for some years to come, but in the mean time, you have a twinkle going on in many eyes! Keep up the good work!

The unit is still freshly brand new and waiting for a new home. Price reduction. $110 for the same package deal, including the power adapter and shipping. Someone is going to get this awesome unit. And I really need the cash for my next amp setup. It's in perfect condition in every respect, you will not be disappointed!

WHAT'S FOR SALE Here's the manufacturer's link for this product CLICK HERE I'm selling my brand new Guitar Trainer. It's the current model, not the new one (MKII) soon to be released. I've used it twice for like 1 hour total, probably less than that, and it works great, no problems at all. I Bought it about 6 weeks ago and now I want to get the new model. Sells in stores for $150 plus tax, not including the power adapter which is another $25. Comes with original packaging, manual and sales slip. Will package securely and insure for full amount. I sold my Gibson Explorer 425 to "coondog" on the 18watt.com forum, he's a happy buyer. Buy with confidence, it is in mint condition, used just enough to know it works just fine and as the manufacturer advertises. Price is $120 for the Tascam CD GT1 and power adapter, including shipping! (lower 48 states only) It's a headphone amp and effects unit with a CD player that has independent controls for changing the playing speed, and for changing the playing pitch without (necessarily) changing the other! You can change both if you want, but most people change just one or the other, which is a seriously outstanding feature. If you have never tried one of these, it will blow your mind how cool they are. Every guitarist/musician should have one. This is a great buy, a great gift item. Sorry, I do not have a digital camera, so no pics. It looks exactly like a brand new unit, nothing different about it or the power adapter. Check ebay to verify my price is good to slightly better than their prices. PURCHASE TERMS It's used, like new condition, sold as is, no warranty implied by seller. It was used properly for less than one hour. I'm not here to disappoint, I want a happy buyer. No refunds is the general rule. However, a full or partial refund may apply if the product was misrepresented. Ask questions before buying. I'll be happy to answer anything I can and as promptly as possible. Damage from shipping would be taken up with the delivery service. I take very good care of packaging, and insure for the full amount, "just in case". Price is firm unless you want to pay more or incase someone wants to outbid another's offer (EMAIL me for purchase offers, at my discretion, I may post a "last chance" offer incase more than one buyer is interested). Trades are not what I have in mind, but feel free to check. I would be susceptible for a portable practice guitar, or lower wattage vintage sounding speaker(s), like Celestion Greenbacks or G12H. Payment options I live in northern Indiana, zip 46507 in case anyone wants to buy it in person. I accept certified bank check, or US Postal Money Order. You might want to send it certified delivery (save your receipts) as sometimes mail is more unpredictable than one might think (from recent personal experience). Prompt Delivery Ships standard ground service. Optionally, pay the additional costs for faster service. Except for unusual circumstances (I'm a local truck driver, it's very rare that I work too late two or three days in a row), it should ship within two business days after receiving payment. It's likely (but not certain) that it will ship the next business day. Thanks for checking out this sale!

Updates/corrections I retested the Epi and Gibsons and found the Epi's pickups to be not good enough, they became muddy or indistinct during open chord changes while the Gibson's remained clear and fuller sounding. So I'll be on the lookout for a good used Gibson SG Standard (or maybe a Special). I also found that the 57 classics were not as bright as I first thought, and they delivered more tonal range differences between the bridge and neck positions especially when they are well adjusted in terms of height. I also found a mod to relocate the top strap location on the end of the upper horn, which is supposed to work well to improve the balance. What are the common upgrades for the Gibson Special to make it more comparable to the Gibson Standard? So far it's seems obvious that an upgraded bridge pickup would be in order, so I'm wondering about the nut and tuners and other hardware.