troyw

Hey all, Well, after taking a while off due to a problem with my hand, I'm back in the game working on this strat. When I last left off, I was having a lot of issues with the tru-oil getting witness lines when I wet sanded it back. Spent a lot of time trying to remedy the problem and finally gave up on that idea. Now I'm spraying it with nitro and it's going pretty well. I'm down to my last couple of coats and had a question about final sanding. I know it's best to wait a month or so to do the sanding polishing process but I was wondering if it's feasible to do at least the first wet sanding (600 grit) before letting it cure. I thought that way I could make sure I've got any little left over defects or low spots all the way out. I don't want to wait a month only to find out that I have to go back, fill these areas and wait another month. I'll try and post a few pics later - it looks pretty cool with the nitro on it. I actually had to take it back and re-dye it due to sand throughs and trying to get the witness lines dealt with. I'm not as happy as I was with the first dye job but it's close enough. At this point I just really want to play this biotch!

Yep, dye and fill were sealed off with Bullseye.

It's actually Dye, not paint. The front is a burst but this showed the lines better on the black back. So where should I go from here...more sanding or recoat and rub out?

Hey all, I just started on wet sanding a strat build that has tru-oil as the finish. I'm coming up with this weird patterned rings and since this is my first build, I wanted to check and see if this is normal or if I'm in some sort of trouble here. It started right away after sanding wet with 600. I thought maybe it could change after moving up to a higher grade paper but I did the next step and it didn't really change. it's a nice flat surface but I'm a little concerned as to what this is. This had about 20-30 coats of oil with light sanding and steel wooling between coats here and there. Can anyone shed some light on this for me?

Hey all, It's been a few weeks since I've been able to post but there really hasn't been much going on other than wiping on coats of tru-oil. I think it's got somewhere between 20-30 coats ( I lost count somewhere) and it's starting to shape up. I had some dips where the grain lines where from not filling properly. (lesson learned) so I've done a little wet sanding every 6 or so during the last several coat to try and level things out a bit. I think it's pretty good at this point but I have a few more questions.... I've heard the TO settles a bit once it's fully cured. With this in mind, should I add a few extra coats for good measure once it's completely leveled out? If so, how many? Also, what about final finishing with tru-oil? I've read a few different techniques such as thinning 50/50 and wiping or spraying for a smother finish coat OR just letting it cure and doing a final wet sanding through all the grits and then polish... Suggestions please... Thanks, Troy

I tried it and it's still not what I'm looking for as far as the feel of it goes. I've just about the the neck sanded back down. I'll give Rick's method a shot with the minwax and I'm sure that will do the trick.

Thanks yo guys....A few things....I have knocked it down with Steel wool but I'll give it another go round. Maybe I went too light before. I'm look for a really matte finish. I know Rick knows what I'm talking about cause he' a carvin guy, I think. I too am not planning to ever use Pure tung for a finish. It's minwax tung finish as rick mentioned above. I guess I'll see how the steel wool goes today and go from there.

Thanks Rick - Did you mean to say Mineral Spirits or does the oil actually work as a solvent. I knew the MS would cut TO but never heard about the mineral oil.

Hey all, Got a question regarding a neck refinish. I am working on a build and the neck has been completed with Tru-oil but I'm not really loving the feel of it. It's a little too glossy for what I want. I'm going to take it down and re-do it in Tung but I wanted to know if there is any additional prep I need to do other than sanding it down. It's a Rock hard maple neck from Carvin. I know the TO will come off pretty easy but do I need to be concerned about anything that seeped int o the wood. Since Maple isn't open grained and TO doesn't soak in a lot, I'm thinking A quick sand down and I'll be ready to apply the tung but wanted to make sure. I also have an old 12 string that I want to do the same thing to. It's probably a 60s era acoustic with a bolt on neck. (Eko - Italian made) It's an old beater but I love the neck and the action is great! I'm just wondering if anyone could take a stab at what it's got on it now. I'm not sure what they used back in the 60s but it's got a pretty slick finish like lacquer. Thanks! Troy

Hey all, Thought I'd throw up a few new pics of where I'm at now. This is after a sealcoat and one application of filler. I've got some toning to do on the black but it's starting to shape up a bit more, i think.

Hey all - Well, I got the dye on and while i'm pretty happy with the way the burst went down. (still need to finesse it a bit) I'm not so happy with the uneven color of the Olive. This is with the first application of dye and I know that dye looks pretty bad unfinished but if anyone has any "fix" or blending ideas I'm all ears. I did it once before and it looked less blotchy but that time I sanded down to a finer grit. maybe I need to sand it down finer so it is less porous? Also, if I sand it off the front, (the back is fine as it's all black) when do I have to be concerned with it taking the bridge position down too low? I've done it 3 times already.

I Think I got my colors worked out. Not sure how it's going to translate on the web but this is looking pretty good in real time. The main color is a little more olive than it looks here but you get the gist.

Going into the dying mode today with waterbased aniline. The body has been sanded down again and, as a result, some of the grain lines/filler has been lots (again) I'm going forward with the color then I'm going to do a wash coat of thinned down sealcoat (shellac) and spot fill where I need it. The sealcoat made it so easy to get off the excess filler that I feel this a better option for me. Putting the black filler on the raw wood just seems to stain it so much that I need to sand the hell out of it to get it off and thus loosing my fill or opening up more pores. I know If I do have to sand at all after color it's going to have to be a light touch to avoid sand through areas but I'm prepared to deal with that as opposed to trying to apply the filler to the unsealed wood again. I spent some time talking on the phone with a finishing guy from the MIM board and he seems to feel this is also a good way for me to go. I'll post some pics as soon as I have some results.

I've got the body stripped back down and filled again. If there's one thing I've learned it's not to use Pore-o-pac filler again. It's a pain! Here's the body now. The green speck in the control cavity is pretty much the color I'm looking for as the base color. But the only thing I could find the color I like in was a waterbased stain and a powdered (RIT type) dye. Neither worked. The dye was too green and didn't dissolve properly in the denatured alcohol. Then I tried the WB stain...This didn't look good on my test piece though...really muddy. It's almost like paint! It's lacks the richness of stained wood. Not good. After much deliberation and loosing a few night sleep, I've decided to go with Aniline dye and do it the way I originally planned. (per the video posted above) I ordered the full set of colors from LMI and figured I can make whatever shades I want (with the help of my wife who's an artist) to use and do my burst more creatively than with the WB stain. Which seems to form a barrier so the next color doesn't absorb into the wood. It's crap! I don't want to sand it down again but I figure if I do have to it's because of something the I really wanted to do and it didn't work out. Not because I'm trying to get something out of product that I feel aren't going to look good. I talked to the guy at LMI about it and he said that I should have no major problems with the dye on ash and seems surprised when I told him that I'd been told differently. I'm going to play around with the other powered dye today just to get a feel for the wiping and blending. If I get the result I'm after on my test piece, I'll take a pic. Troy

I'm starting over - I took it down to bare wood again. I just didn't feel happy with the way things where going so far and since it's my first build I want something I can be proud of. I found a few color choices for the olive green that I want. One is a dylon dye that can be used like RIT. It has no salt added so I think it might be safer than RIT. I tried it on a piece of ash that I got my hands on and it worked well. The problem was that I used Denatured Alcohol and it seems like a lot of the crystals didn't dissolve. Because of this it came out more hunter green than olive. when I dumped the sludge after straining it there was a lot of sandy yellowish crystals so I'm thinking that was why it changed shades. maybe it needs the heat to melt ALL of the powder so it might be better go use water and treat it like an aniline dye. The other is a waterbased stain by either behr or minwax they can make customer colors at the paint counter and they have a few different shades of olive green that are really nice and warm. After working with the scrap I kind of feel like it would be better to dye/stain first and then do the filler. The concern I have with this is that I'm not so great at sanding yet and am concerned with sand through into the color. The reason I think it might be better is that the stain seems to bring out a lot more of the grain lines than the filler alone did. (going by my test piece.) I also feel like the washcoat before doing the filler screwed me up a little on the first go round. I probably put it on too heavy cause and it blocked or rounded off some of the pores so the filler didn't stick as well as it should have. The nice part was that I could practically wipe off the excess filler after it was dry. Anyhow that is my sad story Back to the drawing board. Gonna read a few chapters of Flexner, research a few things on the net and see if I can make some headway today. (Or at least get a good game plan.)

Don't know if this will help but here is a virtual mock up I did at USA guitar. This is kind of what I'm shooting for. it's a little more green than what I'm after but it's close.

Zinsser Bullseye® SealCoat - 100% wax free shellac Tru-oil was what i had in mind.

The sanding sealer I'm using is shellac...thinned down...100% wax free. I know that shellac is pretty compatible with most everything but is that going to go for stains or dyes too? That's my next step. I already know I'm finishing in oil so I need to know what is best to use for color that will "stick" the the shellac and not cause I problem with the oil. Actually, if I use a few coats of sealcoat after the color the finish really wont matter will it?

Here is the body after two coats of filler and sanded. I tried to catch some light on it but I'm not sure I was getting the right angle where I was at. Now I guess it's on tot he sanding sealer. I can see a few small pores but I'm ok with that if the SS doesn't get them. I'm finishing in oil so a slight woody look is ok with me. What kind of stain or dye is going to adhere best to the sealcoat? (I'm not spraying.) It's Zinsser Bulls eye sealcoat.

Thanks John - Actually I wasn't going to do green over black...My original thought was to do an olive to black burst. Now, after looking at the sealed and filled piece, I kinda feel like it needs a warmer color (especially with that red stripe of grain) so I was thinking over some alternative ideas. One thought that I had was to stain the whole thing black and then put a dark red or amber tint over that but i'm not sure yet. This is where being an artist gets to be frustrating. Too many ideas...In the digital world I work in, you've always got the "undo" command...no such luck here other than a few sheets of sand paper and lots of elbow grease!

I'm kind of having a change of heart on the color of this thing. I was originally thinking olive green because I like that color a lot and thought it would be different. Now that I look at the wood I'm not sure that's the best option. Seems to be crying out for something warmer. (red, amber, umber) Are there any techniques for black under a tinted finish? I was wondering what would happen if I stained it black and then come back over it with a color tinted clear. My thoughts are that it would look black until the light hit it the right way.

Gee there's a thought... I would have never thought of that on my own. The can says "over night" but it doesn't seem like it's very set up overnight.

What's the dry time between coats of filler? (Pore-o-pac) Anyone?

Thanks Wez! Yeah, they're all on the back which will be stained black anyway...with the color on, I'm hoping they'll look fine.

I did a little work on those knots before filling today to make them a little more natural looking...here are some pics. I think they look better. Still not sure I'm happy with the overall results of the dark filler. I was hoping to get a little more of a striped pattern then I did. Maybe it's just not going to work out with this piece of ash.