Retuos

Yet Another Post!

So I'm curious how you guys go about designing your guitar bodies!

I personally do it all after I've found out where everything should be on the guitar itself. I then trace the shaps on tracing paper

My own issues are proportions. How do you guys get your guitars into proportion? Tracing around your own or? 

Advice and tales fellas!

Thanks

R

Update On the Design

So, I have completely repositioned the bridge. It's a little further back then before because of the saddles, which have been loosened further. (Left Drawing shows it clearly)

As you can see, I have also added the strings in, roughy. I calculated the string spacings and where they need to be on the nut which annoyingly took longer than it should have. All I had to do was (43-6)/5 which is the Nut Width take Fretboard to String gap divided by the total number of strings take 1, so 5. This gave me my spacings from the strings centres which I marked down. I then drew the strings saddle area on the scale like - obviously not where they'll be but it gives a rough area - and then drew the lines on. I have left the centre line in there which makes looking at it a bit confusing but it helps me work with it better.

Further more I have sketched in the hum buckers routing. This is what I was looking for in the first place when I started this. This bridge pickup is not too close but not too far from the bridge to give warmth into it and not just treble. The neck pickup is hugging the neck like it should.

Next I plan to draw the body on, the headstock which I am still designing - now thinking of a straight 6 design instead of 3x3 - and then add in the volume pot, tone pots and input jack. Everything is coming together!

Thanks for reading!

R

Thanks @ScottR, that worked a treat! Check out my build thread soon, I'm posting some updates

Hey Guys! So if you haven't seen my build that I'm doing, just check the link here.

I need advice on how to get the string with placement on the nut. I've seen the spreadsheet calculator but it does not make much sense to me. 

My nut is 43 mm, 10.4mm string spacing at the bridge. 

Cheers 

R

Bridge Adjustments

So, taking on the advice of these kind guys I have unscrewed my bridges saddles further, the high E now 3-4mm further away from where it was so I can move the bridge back those few millimetres. This means redrawing the bridge! Woohoo! I now believe my bridge is in the correct position on the scale length. Once again, thank you everyone who have helped ( @ScottR, @curtisa and @charisjapan).

What Next??

My plan next is to draw on the Body, Headstock and the frets on the fretboard. Just to clarify just incase there is confusion, I am going to be having 23 frets where I shave half on the 24th off. Thats why I have a ~3mm gap between the 24th fret and the pickup. Sorry if there is confusion. Then I will draw on the pickup position and then sketch the wiring out on tracing paper. I am going to have 1 volume knob and 2 tone knobs. I also want the jack on the front of the body. After that, I'm going to put the string contact points on the nut and sketch strings.

Following this, I will probably draw a side view plan.

Because I have a hardtail - and I'm lazy  - I will have no neck angle, however my neck will be a bolt on so I can shim it if I need to so that I can adjust the action.

R

On 20/02/2017 at 2:05 PM, ScottR said:

These guys are giving you good advice. It has been my experience that you almost always never move a saddle closer to the nut to intonate. so you do want to leave yourself the bulk of the adjustment range moving away from the nut. I do occasionally find that I get a little drill bit deflection when drilling pilot holes for my bridge screws. Then the countersunk heads move it ever so slightly from where I marked it. Not so much too be out of position, but enough that I might need to move the high E saddle a turn or so closer to the nut. to be at the proper scale length. 75% is probably too far away...85% is probably closer to where I start. do check your own bridge and see how much adjustment you have. 

SR

I'll check it, I guess I'm a bit too cautious! Thanks for the advice! I do believe everything is correct, however I am going to redo my saddles and perhaps get it more accurate.

Thanks

R

On 19/02/2017 at 11:18 PM, curtisa said:

Don't forget to allow for the fretboard extension after the 24th fret (say 8mm or so). If you place the pickup 3mm past the 24th fret slot you'll have no fretboard to install the fret into.

I was thinking actually on cutting it off on the 24th fret and having, in essence, 23 and a half. So that was why I was having it 3 mm away. If this works or not i'm not sure! You'll have to tell me.

On 19/02/2017 at 11:18 PM, curtisa said:

Have a look at this. RestorationADs old posts are a goldmine of information. The 9th post down the page illustrates how best to position the bridge to allow for correct intonation. The method he uses even points to measuring "...the scale to the most forward point on the bridge saddles" (emphasis mine):

Thanks! I'll have a gander and check it out! 

On 19/02/2017 at 11:18 PM, curtisa said:

Edit: CJ beat me to it. But yes, establish the correct scale length with the saddles as far forward as you can, and then individual intonation adjustments once strung up will be away from this point. If you only wind the saddles 75% the way forward and locate your bridge based off this, it's possible you'll run out of adjustment range on the lower wound strings because they can no longer go back far enough to correct intonation errors

I understand now, I'll extend it out more, this'll mean my bridge will be further back and I'll have more room for pickups right? 

R

On 19/02/2017 at 11:10 PM, charisjapan said:

Retuos,

I stand corrected ... the high-e string is closest to actual scale length.  On my Gibsons, with a scale length of 624 mm, my saddles are set as in the diagram (sorry, not-to-scale MSPaint).  The high-e is 624 mm and the low-E is 630 mm.  But my point was that the actual "stroke" of your saddles is about 10 mm optimum.  The Gibson ABR has an actual range of saddle position ("stroke") of only about 7 mm, while a Nashville bridge boasts about 9 mm.  Your adjustment range for a hardtail bridge could be stretched to maybe 12 mm, but would look a little weird if the saddles were too far forward, or too far back.  That is why I said 90~95%.  This would measure to about 1 mm from the saddle block to the edge of the bridge plate, but the actual saddle string point is about 2mm back from there.

Sorry for the confusion, and the mistake in scale.  Hope this helps!

Thanks for the reply!

So are you saying that I should extend my saddle a bit more to get the whole bridge back a little bit? I'm not sure if my saddles get that close to the bridge. They leave quite a gap when fully extended. I'll have to do it and show you a picture, it'll be easier than just typing.

R

2 hours ago, charisjapan said:

Hey Retuos,

Nice that you started a build thread!

About that bridge, you may want to extend the high-e forward a bit more.  On any of my guitars, the typical spread between low-E and high-e is about 3~4 mm, the low-E the most back, and the high-e the most forward. but if you measure the actual scale nut-to-12th fret then 12th fret-to-saddle, the A-string is probably the closest to being the same.  So your high-e should be more forward, or your low-E will be too far back. The actual travel of that bridge is only about 10 mm, even though there appears to be more screw left, the spring starts to bind and the saddle would go behind your string-through hole.  The high-e saddle should probably be more like 90% or even 95% forward. 

What is the measurement from the nut face to the center of the 12th fret?  The measurement from 12th fret to the actual touching point of the A-string saddle should be about the same.

(I hope this makes sense to you)

 

Thanks for the reply!

Right now i'm not sure if I want to extend it anymore. I'll have a think about it .

I'll have to measure that when i work on it next.

The only thing that seems weird to me is that the High-E is normally the scale length. That's what i've been running off at the moment. 

Thanks

R

16 minutes ago, ScottR said:

Cheers Retuos!

I probably should have noticed this thread before my last response in your previous thread.

I'm looking forward to seeing this thing develop.

SR

Thanks Scott,

Just to check, is the positioning of the bridge here correct? The bridge scale line is where the high E will be at about 85% protrusion. 

Thanks,

R

Right, I have a new thread!

Here it is, hope you enjoy!

Thanks again to @ScottR, @curtisa and everyone else for their help.

Hey Everyone!

      Welcome to my new thread on my first proper guitar build! I've been designing this for a while and I'm currently doing an accurate drawing of what it will look like. I had help from people like @ScottR, @curtisa and more to progress in my design and make it better. So thank you to all of them. Here is the link to that thread. Just so you know, I have experience with woodworking and others so I'm not going into this with nothing.

The Design

So I have been designing off of a telecaster, shape wise, as I have always loved the shape. Other guitars I have designed from include a PRS, Gibson and one of my current guitars, a Lag Arkane. It is  a 25" scale with 24 Frets. 

To start this whole project off, I drew round my Lag Arkane body to get a rough outline. Then I shaped the guitar from that, adding the Telecaster shape. 

The headstock I designed off a PRS and a guitar that an old guitar buddy was given, a Seraph Sabre. Look him up, Jon Beedle.

 Here's the original rough design shape of both guitar and headstock.

 After I got the rough design, I attempted at creating an accurate design however it failed because of improper measurements. So I scrapped it, you can see it in the other thread. 

The Hardware and other stuff

Wood

I've been looking into different kinds of wood for this guitar, however I finalised on Black Korina for the body. I made this decision because 1 I like the wood and 2 I can get my hands on it quite easily! I'll need two halves of it so I can route out the middle of the guitar and then glue the top over it (If that makes sense). For the neck I was thinking just Mahogany as I have a lot of very old mahogany to use. It's about 200 years old! and then an ebony fretboard.

Electronics

I'm thinking humbuckers, don't know what yet (leave suggestion if you wish) but one in the bridge, one in the neck. I was looking into P90s but i'd rather use pickups I'm familiar with at first. I will have the input on the front, like an SG with two Tone and a Volume Knob. I'm hoping to use a Gibson switch as my selector for pickups.

Other Stuff

The bridge is cheap (£16) but I don't wast anything expensive at the moment. I got it from Northwest Guitars. It's a hardtail and it's chunky which is what I wanted. Currently up to this day I only have this.

The Build

Last night, 18/02/17, I embarked on a new adventure. I had the advice of people on the other thread, had the equipment, had the pride so I set off drawing a new design. I started by placing my ruler down on the table and drawing out a beautifully straight 25" line for my High E to nut scale. I then made a mark where the 24th fret will be and drew a line 90 degrees to it  (you'll see in the pictures) and then added 3mm and that is where my pickup shall go.

At the Bridge end of the scale length, I got my bridge that I bought and measured it up to the line with my High E. (My High E saddle is protruded 85%-ish-of the way out). I then went about sketching around the bridge. Then I took the Saddles off the bridge and drew the 5 holes where the bridge is screwed on and then the 6 holes for the strings-see images.

From there, I got the measurement from E to E which was 54mm and added 4mm to each side. From there I drew a line from the middle marks on the bridge to the Nut in order to get the fretboard width. As shown in the first few drawings.

Upon starting this at 11;25 on 19/02/17 this is all I have done. I plan on finishing this drawing soon and then buying the wood and starting!! Next I am going to mark the humbuckers and draw the body shape and headstock.

8 hours ago, curtisa said:

Go to the first post in your thread and hit the "Edit" button in the lower-right corner. Should be able to change the post title from there.

Well bummer, I can't find the edit button. I will probably open up a new thread.

Thanks,

R

Or shall I just make a new one?

Just now, curtisa said:

Any of the subforums under the "Tech Area" are good places to ask for technical help:

• Solidbody Guitar and Bass Chat
• Acoustic and Hollowbody Guitar Chat
• Inlays and Finishing Chat
• Electronics Chat
• Tools and Shop Chat

Ah okay thank you, much appreciated.

How can I change this threads title?

3 minutes ago, curtisa said:

If you anticipate that you'll use this thread to post your progress on your build, then yes, we can leave it as-is. If you'd rather use this thread to discuss the technicalities of how to do something (as we have been doing so far), then there are other areas of the forum that will better serve, if only to keep things looking neat and tidy on the forum. Entirely up to you.

I think I'll use this as a progress thread from now onwards. Can the title be changed? Where on the forum should I post about the technicalities of stuff? Just so I know .

R

2 minutes ago, curtisa said:

We can move this thread to somewhere more appropriate if you like, say the Solid Body and Bass Chat area.

Yea, could do although this section seem quiet appropriate anyway being the In progress build area? Could the title just be changed?

@ScottR I've started to redraw the guitar now. Should I open another Topic to talk about it or what?

Cheers,

R

4 hours ago, ScottR said:

You usually end up with a stair-step look. B is a little further back from the high E, G a little behind the B, A even with or a little in front of the G, D a little further back and likewise with the low E. You can set them up that way to begin with if you like, but you are going to move them all to intonate once the build is done, assembled and strung up. The only important thing to do first is get your bridge located properly for your scale length.

SR

Yea, I get it. Thanks a lot Scott.

I have started to redraw it and drew the centre line and then just two lines showing the 25" scale length from the high E (As is on the saddle) to the nut. When you say located properly, what do you mean?

R

On 23/01/2017 at 0:54 AM, ScottR said:

I got all the hardware strapped on and the nut made and then strung it up. It still needs a set up and intonation. But it looks like a completed guitar, so from here on out I have indulged in gratuitous picture taking. Because we all like looking at pictures.

SR

That, is one beautiful guitar there @ScottR. I'm jealous!

19 hours ago, ScottR said:

That sounds logical doesn't it? In reality, intonation almost always involves lengthening the scale--pulling the bridge saddles further away from the nut. When fretting, you are stretching the string slightly out of its plane at rest to reach the fret. Stretching a string makes the note higher-sharp just like bending a string does. To compensate for the sharp you increase the scale length. In general terms the greater the diameter of the string and the higher its action the longer the scale adjustment needs to be to intonate. That's why you see the Tunomatic bridge on a Les Paul and the saddles on an acoustic bridge angled away on the bass side of the bridge. 

I like to set up a bridge by moving the high E saddle 75%-80% of the way forward in it's travel and then mount the bridge with that saddle at the exact scale length from the nut in that position. That leaves a little adjustment forward in the rare event that it is needed and most of the adjustment away from the nut where it is certain to be needed for the remaining strings.

Does that help?

SR

I understand now, thanks.

Currently all of my saddles are in a line at the same place. How should I go about adjusting it? Screwing in each saddle a few turns? Adding a turn on for each saddle closer to the lower E? Or just do that when I make the thing? 

I always love a little leeway in my stuff just to make room for adjustments either way if necessary. I guess it's just my safety procedure! 

Cheers again,

R

On 15/02/2017 at 10:33 PM, curtisa said:

The more useful measurement would be the distance of the high E saddle to the nut (ie, the scale length). With the saddles nearly as far forward as possible, this is the critical distance when positioning the bridge in order to get the guitar to correctly intonate. Anything else left in between the end of the fretboard and the bridge is a blank canvas for you to position the pickups as you see fit.

Indeed it will, I understand now. 

Attached is a picture of my bridge that I received The saddles are like this at rest, I have not adjusted it at all. why should I do it as far forward? Shouldn't it be better in the middle for it to intonate? 

On 15/02/2017 at 9:53 PM, ScottR said:

Thanks!

The pickups are Klein high wind P-90s:  http://www.kleinpickups.com/p-230-high-wind-p-90-pickup-set.aspx

The distance from the high E saddle and the fretboard is 6.25 inches, or about 159mm. That's a 23 fret board with a 25" scale and the fret board is trimmed right at the location for the 24th fret.

SR

 

Once again they're lovely! I thought about p-90s but went against it for now.

I wanted to check the distance to the fretboard to check how large of a difference it is compared to mine . 

R

On ‎11‎/‎02‎/‎2017 at 3:35 PM, ScottR said:

Like cj says, the warmth of the neck pickup mostly comes from its position of being closest to the 12th fret, the center point between the anchors of the nut and bridge. At this position the strings are vibrating in a much wider arc or travel as compared to the bridge pickup position. I usually but my neck pickup right against the fretboard to take advantage of that warmth.

And like you I prefer the bridge pickup to have a bit more warmth than what comes from the traditional bridge pickup location that is fairly close to the bridge. In fact in my most recent build I purposely moved the bridge pickup further away from the bridge to make it warmer. It is still noticeably more treble than the neck, but not at all shrill:

So yes, I'd say they are a reasonable distance apart. And if you moved them closer together, or further apart, they'd still be a reasonable distance apart.

SR

That's a beautiful guitar!

What pickups are they??

Once I get my bridge through the post, I am going to completely redraw it. Make everything as accurate as possible!!

What's the measurement of your guitar from the High e saddle to the fretboard?

Thank you,

R