axe_2_grind

AFAIK (As Far As I Know) Fernandes and Sustainiac are 2 different companies. The guy that heads up Sustainiac is one of the originators of the idea. He's put alot of years into the development of it and I would think he's got a better product ultimately. But the Fernandes is more well known and is used by certain artists like Steve Vai, and Robert Fripp to name a couple. I think Fernandes offers the choice of Black or White. (at least Steve Vai has white ones!) The way I understand it, both are good. But I think the sustainiac is slightly better. Also more expensive though.

OK. So I've been messing around with my original Fetzer-ruby build, and found that if I just omit the 68K resistor on the input, I get a loud clear signal, and (as an amp) it seems to work really well. Next I'll take it back to the studio & try it out on my 4X12. Also i think I'll mount this thing in a pickup box (I have a few seymour/duncan plastic boxes sitting around) with some jacks and use it for testing on future driver builds. Next I'll have to build a new driver. ( kinda got frustrated with my old one and tore it apart. I still have the coil though! Looks nice & tight!) Hopefully it should work this time (fingers crossed)

wow 122 pages!! Good Going guys!! It's been slow going on my end (well, actually it hasn't been going at all). I've been having to deal with band stuff over the last few weeks, so I haven't really had time to mess with this project at all. I do still need to rebuild my Fetzer/Ruby circuit. Anyway, looks like I've got some catching up to do on this whole Bi-lateral driver thingy. Keep it up!!

OK, so I removed my circuit from my guitar, soldered on some jacks, packed it up and headed down to the studio and plugged it into my 4x12 cab (8 ohms of course). The results were a little dissapointing. It seems like the harder I hit my strings, the more it clips. But also, when it clips, it gets loud for a split second, and then soft again. I tried messing with the gain and volume, but could not get a decent sound ot of it. I did notice, however, that some pieces of solder had broken off in the box I transported it in. So I may have to go over it again anyway. I do have plenty of spare parts to build another (with a tighter configuration this time). So back to square on for me. But i'm surprisingly not bummed about it. I enjoy the process, and each time I have learned from the previous experience. So the next one will be better. It's gonna be awhile before I get the parts for my next driver, so I have time to build this circuit over again. Cheers!

Well I tested it with a headphone speaker, and damn near blew the thing up (the speaker that is)! But I have not tested it with a proper 8ohm speaker yet. I'll have to hook up one of the speakers from my amp and try it.

Oh well...many people have had to make a few drivers, each get a little better...I've made about 60 through all this, some of the early hex designs looked particularly bad, and some took days to make...and didn't work at all. One of the tricky things about the Hex designs that eventually evolved is that the little "elements" I used were modified electronic components that were never designed for the kind of power that I was putting through it...they just burnt out! So, I set them in a metalic epoxy putty that acted as a shield and as a heat sink. The problem was, that I couldn't test them till I made them...so there were a few failures...don't worry about it, have a little faith and try again...the wire is pretty cheap and a roll should have enough fro a few of them... Still...a tall thin driver wont work I'm afraid...been there done that...not worth repeating. The benefit of the thin driver is not only that the magnetic field is condensed into a small space, but there is a lot of wires overlaping, each wire generates a field around it with the current flowing through it (the polarity depending on it's direction) and that is wound around another and the fields build up magnetising the core directly under the strings. A tall thin driver will not have the same amount of overlapping wire and will lack the required speed I fear. Cool, thanks for the info...that'll hopefully save me some time on experimentation. Yeah, the driver was putting out something, so I know that the circuit definitely works. I just need to make a better driver. And my bassist is willing to machine the parts for me. He has access to a machine shop, and can do things with a lot greater precision than me. He too seems to have a great deal of interest in this project, so he and I have been talking alot about this. He also suggested I test the currents & voltages on the board, just to be extra sure that the circuit is ok. Not a bad idea. Does anyone have a table of readings for the fetzer/ruby circuit? Runoffgroove doesn't seem to have one.

ok, so I tried placing my driver over the pickup while plugged into my amp, and I did get a sqealing type sound. So it's doing something, but It's still not producing enough output (even with the volume & gain @ max) to vibrate the strings. Just for fun I threw on the lead patch (heavy distortion w/ some delay) and had a little fun moving the driver back & forth over the pickup. Anyway, I've even tried switching the leads, holding it upside-down to the strings, and nothing. I may have to check the potting, just to see if the windings are still loose. Might have to use some epoxy after all. luckily I picked up some 30 minute stuff and some rubber gloves the other day. (let the mad science continue...ha ha ha!!!) EDIT: >sigh< so I think my recycled single coil driver is a bust. My Ruby circuit seems to work just fine, I think there is a fundamental fault in my driver design, I'm just not sure what. I'll have to try it again later. Oh well. I've already got some steel that I can use for a rail design, it just needs to be cut to size. Cutting the plastic should be no big deal. I may even go bobbinless. I am also thinking of making a tall/skinny driver that can possibly fit up against the neck between the heel & the pickup. But first I just need a working driver. Anyway, good luck to you all, and thanks Col for posting your schematic (such as it is). I'll have to breadboard it at some point and try it out.

Well, it seems like I take two steps forward, one step back. So I got my "driver" coil to just below 8 ohms, tested it with the circiut (before mounting it) just to see if anything heated up. So far so good, nothing seems to be malfunctioning with the circuit itself. My driver on the other hand, doesn't seem to want to...well...drive. For this driver I am using a recycled single coil with 6 magnetic pole pieces. I slid the top part of the bobbin down, so there is about a good 1/4 of an inch exposed on top. The other problem I am having is that these pole pieces don't seem very strong. I'm wondering if I need to cut them down to size closer to the coil. Though, if the magnets are weak, then maybe I'm not generating enough of a magnetic field or something. As a side note, with a little compression on my clean channel, I get some funky background noise when the circuit is on. So it seems, at the very least, I have made myself a fancy noise maker thingy. Any thoughts/suggestions?

Well, other than the afore mentioned U2 song "with or without you", I don't really know too many sustainer-ish songs. It would definitely have to be something with some long drawn out notes. As i'm typing this it dawns on me (duh), Carlos Santana's version of "Europa" would be a good one! Also, just as a progress report: I've rewound my recycled single coil using the 6 pole-pieces which are themselves magnets, and am happy to report no wild fluctuations in the resistance this time. I realized my problem. I was attatching alligator clips to the leads, and the other end of those clips to the contacts of my multimeter, and I believe those were somehow adding extra resistance depending on how I had them positioned. So i took them off and pressed the wires directly to the multimeter and was able to get a more acurate (and stable, and consistent) reading. 7.6 ohms. Not too far off the mark for my 1st driver. I also found some PVA wood glue (which definitely has a different quality to it than the regular carpenter's glue I was using) to pot the windings with. Once all was said & done I wrapped up the coils with some cloth tape I pulled off of another junk pickup that I had, then used 2 small spring clamps to compress the coils. I've got it setting up to dry overnight. I'll be posting some pics soon.

Elmer's is a fairly common brand in the U.S. , and they make alot of different glues for different purposes. The Wood glue I am using I believe is water based, hence alot of mess when winding. I'll see if I can find some PVA. Thanks for letting us know about the super glue thing. I've been a little afraid of handling epoxy. (don't want to glue my fingers together!!) Like I said, I need to get the right materials before I attempt to do this again.

OK, so I recycled an old stock single-coil using 30 guage wire (approx. 0.25mm or so) I tried to keep it as thin a possible, but I am lacking the proper clamps and glues and stuff (need to hit up the hardware store), not to mention I was perhaps a little impatient due to the fact that I just got the wire. I used some regular Elmer's wood glue (which was a bit messy) and I did notice that though the edges were tight, the long parts kinda sagged. Anyway, when I hooked up the multimeter, the resistance fluctuated rather wildly. And when I hooked up the driver to the circuit, my LM386 started heating up and (of course) no sustain. Of course, as previously mentioned, I did not use any of the prescribed methods for winding a driver, I just tried to reuse an old pickup bobbin with 6 pole pieces, and just lowered the top down. I guess I'll just have to be patient and try again when I get the appropriate materials.

Col, So what is the second IC you have there? And what function(s) does it serve? Something to do with "conditiong" the signal as previously mentioned? Also, for your driver, did you use a standard pickup rail cut to size? Great pics BTW.

Not if we keep inspiring great posts like these and people keep attempting to build and develop the thing...it is truely astonising how long and how big this thread has run As I said a couple of pages ago, this thread itself seems to have infinite sustain. Seriously. I think a lot of guitarists are intrigued by this idea (I wanted a sustainer ever since I watched Steve Vai using one), and the input that everyone has contributed to this thread speaks volumes. You've seriously struck a chord with a lot of people who would like to try this for themselves. Myself included. It was someone over on UG (ultimate guitar) that referred me here, and after looking at Ansil's Project, and subsequent thread, I found this one. I jumped around a bit (not wanting to have to read the WHOLE thing of course) and I knew I had to try it!! Col, I am intrigued by your circuit now. What you describe as a "more natural" kind of sustain, and the idea of longer battery life. Actually what you describe sounds very much like the way a compressor acts. You set a "threshold' and the signal is supposed to be amplified to that point, no further. It more or less balances itself out. I agree with PSW, seems like a Limiter, or perhaps a gate, is all that's missing now. I look forward to seeing a schematic when you get around to it. And maybe some sound clips too?

Ok. finally some photos... Here's my ruby sans LED ...and the total noob job wiring... I used a 16pin socket because I had them sitting around from my failed Tube Sound Fuzz project. (OK different project altogether, but I discovered I was using the wrong type of 4049 chips, schematic called for a CD4049, the ones I bought were MC14049BCP. When I switch it on, all I get is a hum, and that's mainly from the wall-wart I was using to test it out.) Anyway... So pins 5-8 on the IC take up holes 13-16 on the socket, and the MPF102 JFET fits into 6, 7, & 8 (gate side on 8) The layout may not be the best, but hey, it's my first build. Next one 'll be better (i hope) I've since attached a power LED from a SPDT switch with a 100ohm resistor and to ground. The switch is wired from the positive battery lead to the coupled Resistor/LED connection and to the board. Thus I have my On/Off switching done. Next will be the phase switch and the driver build. I still need to get the wire and bar magnet or steel bar for the driver. So now the fun stuff begins!! For the phase switch I assume you just use a DPDT switch with wires crossing in an X shaped pattern on the outside lugs? (Y/N)??? Edit: just for the hell of it I decided to solder on output & input jacks and it seems to work ok. I get a little bit of squeal though when I switch it out of phase. I'm just having fun right now messing with the controls. It does seem, hoever, that the "trim" control is crucial to getting this thing to even work. There also seems to be a balance between the gain and volume settings that seems to be optimal. I guess it just takes some playing around with.

Alrighty, so I got my ruby circuit all wired (total noob job, pics coming soon ). Anyone know how to hook up a power LED? Anyway I'm trying the fetzer/ruby circuit first, but couldn't I built a preamp out of JFETs?

Yeah someone directed me to a website where they had the conversion chart because I needed to convert it to micro-farads. I don't know anyone in the U.S. that sells caps in 'nano' values. It's usually either 'micro' or 'pico'.

Cool thanks, that cleared it up alot!!

Question on the fetzer/ruby circuit. there are 2 caps on there that have values in 'n' what does this mean? I'm not familiar with 'n' as any kind of abbreviation for capacitance. Are they just really low value capacitors? like say: 22n = 22pF ??? or something like that?

Well, i tried the "strawberry ice" thing, using LED's (because this is actually a fairly common way to cause clipping in preamp circuits) and it worked. Though I wired the 2 LED's to my tone control in place of the capacitor, and I couldn't vary the gain any. So it looks like if I make this a permanent addition I'll have to add a switch. But the overdive was kinda tubey sounding, and I definitely noticed it when I kicked on the distortion. So there is some merit to this mod after all. For me at least Keep Rockin'!!

Yes one could say that this thread seems to have infinite sustain

Nice looking as well!! You've got the whole thing tightly wrapped up and neat. Who needs Fernandes or Sustainiac?? (jk)

hey PSW, do you have a larger picture of YOUR schematic on this thread anywhere? I'd like to take a look at it and compare. Also (and this is to anyone) what kind of JFET is being used on the fetzer/ruby circuit? Edit: also has anyone thought of making one for 7-string. I have a stock pickup from my Ibanez that I'm dying to try this on!! Another thought I'm having is trying a dual-coil design (2x4ohm coils wired in series) thin and flat like PSW's but made to fit over both coils on a humbucker. Any toughts/suggestions on this? Just as a side note to this whole thing, I walked into a local guitar shop today and they had a Jackson with a Sustainiac system mounted in it. If i'd had the time I would have tried it out, but I was on my lunch break so I couldn't.