MuffinPunch

My uncle has taken an interest in my building and asked about hiring me to build him a custom. Obviously for family Im gonna hook him up when he finally does place his order, but the future is looking bright as far as commission prospects are concerned, so I wanted to know what is a good price point for a custom job. Mainly labor charges, I can figure out cost. Keep in mind that Im still pretty new to this, but I feel like I have a pretty good feel for what im doing since Im experiencing building many types of guitars with many different components and finishes, and im very meticulous about my work. For the most part I dont plan on having access to a CNC, at least for a good while after I finish school, so pretty much everything will be hand built. . I feel like it would be beneficial to offer a "product line", with a few body types and woods to chose from, then let the customer decide on the rest. I guess every "business" needs its own buisness model and I really should come up with my own if I plan to seriously build guitars to sell. Sounds like a perfect opportunity to further develop this Harmonic Core concept if it turns out to be a hit. Its probably too soon to really be asking these questions, but once I get a thought in my head it doesnt go away until I voice it (or post it ). And no, I dont plan on doing this full-time. I just want to use it as a vehicle to practice my new found hobby!

Thanks for your replies guys. I guess my question was phrased kind of stupidly though. Obviously any tuning that has any sort of musical logic will yield good results. I guess Im more interested in using the guitar to play songs that are traditionally played in low tuning on a six (think Mastodon), but still have the upper register to get up to that high E and beyond on a standard tuned 6. I suppose I could accomplish the same thing by using standard 7 string tuning, offering more low notes rather than high notes. You can probably tell my knowledge of musical theory is pretty lacking. In all honesty, I probably wont even play these guitars for more than a couple of hours a week, even after they're completely finished. I just don't have the time! Then again, if I spent half as much time playing guitars as I do designing and building them, I might actually know something about music...

Cool shape, and those cracks were unfortunate. Glad to see you filled them.

Id like to see how this build turns out.

Thanks. A lot of hard work went into getting that body shape just right, and developing the right ind of carve for it. Im pretty happy with the way things are working out too.

Yes Dillon using a milling machine is cheating but in my opinion only and yes I am sure CNCs are nice but then you can't call the guitar hand made.

By the way Muffinpunch all I asked Prostheta was how he is liking Finland since he moved from England.

I dont see how a using a mill is any more cheating than using a plunge or a table router. Im not about to get into another debate about CNC vs "hand made", but just try doing a full body carve, front and back, without a CNC machine! Not saying it cant be done, but the headache just isnt worth it to me. Developing a top notch, mill quality 3d model to input into the machine is no easy task either, and considering the state the body is in when it comes off the CNC and the fact that the main part of the guitar (i.e. the core) is getting done entirely by hand, Ill get pretty defensive if someone tries to contradict me when I claim this is a hand built guitar.

I actually looked up what you said on an online Finnish to English translator (I know Im a dork) and It said something like "How do you fond of Finland?", so I kinda got the idea. Its really no big deal, I was just messing with you.

No,they do that not because it is best,but because it is a gimmick that started back in the 80s(that jumbo wire was "faster"),and the companies know that most kids that know nothing fall for it.

Ok, Wes. You win...

Style of music really has nothing to do with it...personal playing style and preference does.

Right, but if you dont have a personal preference, music style is a good place to start... Most modern commercially built guitars made for playing Metal and Hard Rock come equipped with jumbo frets from the factory, (Ibanez RG and X, and most Jacksons and ESPs) so its a pretty good indication of what the preference tends to be for the typical customer, or at least what those companies have decided is the standard for playing that kind of music.

Im assuming you play guitar and therefore are accustomed to playing a certain kind of guitar equipped with a particular fret size. If thats comfortable to you, stay with it... If you feel like you need something bigger or smaller, test it out and see if you like it better. Theres really no answer to your question that can be answered by anyone but yourself through research and experimentation.

Im no authority on the subject, but I think the style of music youre playing could help determine which fretwire you should go with. for Metal and Hard rock I tend to steer toward jumbo or extra jumbo, for jazz I think smaller size is more appropriate. If you play everything in between, go with a medium.

Believe me - they do get cut off. If I trim the strings too early, I might not be able to get them back on.

Thats a relief! Ill wait to see it "completely done" then!

Really amazing work Jon! I am truly impressed. My one gripe about this instrument is that you spent all this time choosing wood and hardware that compliment each other perfectly, you take the care to design and cut this fantastic vine pattern F hole, and wire up some serious electronics; you create this overall gorgeous instrument then you go and string it up like a cheap Strat copy some 14 year-old kid plays in his punk rock band. What is up with those strings man?

Aside from that easily resolved little detail, I love it!

yeah, the roman ones are kinda pants. aim for more realistic bone tones and all will be good

i really like the way the carve looks do far and look foward to seeing it in wood

Ha Ha! I worked with an Ozzy who lived in UK for a couple of years. Were it not for him I would have absolutely no idea what you meant by "pants".

Now that my seven string projects are more than just a concept, Im starting to think about different tunings. As I stated in my build thread somewhere, Im not a 7 string player (im not really a guitarist at all, well a good one anyway) so these will be my introduction to the "extended range" sector. I suppose Ill need one thats in standard BEADGBE, but I wonder if tuning the other to DGCFADG would yield a good result. Has anyone here had experience with this tuning? I like the idea that its essentially a 6 string D standard with a high G added to the range. Seems like it might be an easier transition from playing detuned sixs fro so long, but would that make transitioning to a standard 7 from a 6 much harder do you think? Its probably something Im going to have to play around with on my own once the guitars are built, but I just wanted to see what you guys had to say.

It will definately look dirty...like it's been dug up. I'm thinking after the detail carving is done, I'll paint the entire guitar white. Then paint it black, and wipe off the raised :bone" areas while the black is still wet. The technique will also require some sanding of the black. I am shooting for a more realistic, less "cartoony" look than this:

Sorry to post a "Roman" link

Thank goodness for that! Yeah, your carve is way more appealing than that. Are you planning on doing a reverse banana style HS as well?

Now this is the kind of stuff I want to see more of! Very cool idea. Id like to see it in a really "dirty" finish though, somewhere along the lines of your nuclear guitar, if you take my meaning. Without seeing the actual guitar I cant say for sure, but you run the risk of it looking cheesy if the finish is too clean IMO. But then, You are an artist Doug, Im sure you know exactly what you're doing.

Hey I may have missed this in the thread but where did you go to get those templates laser cut? Looks great so far by the way.

Thanks! Ive done everything at school (design college) so far, including the laser stuff. They charge $0.40 minute to use them, so If Im cutting something really intricate, it adds up pretty quickly. I found that out when I cut the recess for the body inlay of my Tabar Zin project,

I saw a nice Ibanez Sr405 bass in Sound City here in Pori yesterday. Already missing having tools and a workshop. Would love to make a bass that shape, but using decent woods. This is shaping up to be a fantastic adventure for you, MP. Keep it up man.

Miten olet mieltynyt Suomi? I agree though this becoming a good guitar.

Hey, lets keep the inside jokes to a minimum. I dont speak Finnish (guessing).

No inside jokes there.

I figured as much. I was just referring to the fact that I dont know what you said, and am therefore on the "outside", joke or not. This is my thread after all...

Hello guys,

I've seen that many of you attach the back covers with magnets instead of screws. I did a search for "magnets" but all I get are pickup-related threads...

I bought from ebay a bunch of neodymium disc magnets (1/4"x1/16") that I haven't received yet. I hope these are adequate... I suppose that I can simply make a shallow recess and glue the magnets in place, but would like to see how you implemented yours.

Do you use magnets on the cover AND the body, or some kind of metal plate on one of the sides ?? Got any pictures to share ??

Many thanks in advance.

RedStar Cover

HOD Magnets

HOD Cover

Hey RAD, you know all those links go to the same page right? Anyway, that is probably one if the best examples youll find on using mags for control covers. RAD does beautiful and solid work.

This is an interesting topic. I have often wondered about small shop builders buying a CNC machine and cutting out Fenders or a popular choice is the Ibanez Jem. It seems like eBay is littered with Jem "replacement bodies" and necks. Most of the necks even go so far as to inlay the Steve Vai vine inlay on the fretboard. Do you think these people could get in trouble for reproducing these?

As far as the major companies go, most courts have upheld that companies, like Fender, can't patent or copyright their specific body design because it is too vague. Look at the Peavey case. I guess theoretically Fender could probably patent or copyright their exact dimensions, but as soon as a copying company slightly altered those dimensions, they would not be infringing on Fenders' property. Plus, think about it; most electric guitars are based off of two main designs in one way or another: Fender Strat and Gibson Les Paul. The solid body electric guitar industry is a copy of these two original designs for the most part.

I dont know about Ibanez, but Fender explicitly points out their trademark for the Stratocaster and Telecaster body shape and headstock design in every ad they publish. Same goes for Charvel and Jackson San Dimas body and HS shapes. My understanding is that all manufacturers using those body shapes are doing so under license from Fender directly. The other guys just havent made a big enough impression to be noticed and therefore havent been sued yet... Its a pretty safe bet that any of the guys making any significant sales of "replacement" Jem bodies or necks are either under a license from Hoshino, or they are about to be sued.

First signs of this project actually materializing! I spent the day in the shop and made some real progress. I got my templates all laser cut. Took about 4 min. and cost me a total of $7. Beats buying them online! (besides the fact that you cant find strat templates with a FR rout)

Then I traced and rough cut the bodies on the band saw.

Finished off by cleaning the edges up on the router table using a brand new bit!

I was hoping to get the cavities all milled today, but the equipment was being monopolized by another student all afternoon. Ill get that done next week while my scarf joints on the 7 strings dry. Shop is closed till monday or Id be doing it tomorrow... Ive also decided to add a faux skunk stripe TR patch on the back of the necks with some left over walnut. Ill be installing double action rods from the front of the neck under the FB with the adjustment nut at the heel, so call me cheesy if you want to. It wouldnt surprise me if the original was done the same way though, as it uses a 2 piece neck/fingerboard, but still has a skink stripe. I havent really looked into it. Happy 4th everyone!

Started on the cores today. First of all, I laser cut my template on 1/4" masonite.

Then I rough cut my neck profile and the angle for my HS scarf. I think I want to add a maple accent piece in the scarf now. Well see.

Just for fun I wedged the template into the body cavity and put the pups in place to see what it would look like. I love the profile of the new extended housing EMG pups. very clean. Also, I actually like the contrasting dark core against the pale Alder. The final product will have a similar effect hopefully, only inverted.

Shop is closed till monday, so I guess Ill take a little break on this project, celebrate my independence or something...

I saw a nice Ibanez Sr405 bass in Sound City here in Pori yesterday. Already missing having tools and a workshop. Would love to make a bass that shape, but using decent woods. This is shaping up to be a fantastic adventure for you, MP. Keep it up man.

Miten olet mieltynyt Suomi? I agree though this becoming a good guitar.

Hey, lets keep the inside jokes to a minimum. I dont speak Finnish (guessing).

I would like to know how much heat buildup occurred during the CNC routing of the body,because too much heat can cause that kind of splitting.You know..if the bit started to get a little dull...

I saw some burn marks on the cutoff pieces that make me think that could be it.

Thats a good point. I honestly couldnt say. I bought the bit to cut my battle axe guitar and it hasnt seen any use since, but that maple was HARD! It wouldnt surprise me if it dulled the blade.

I asked the guys in the shop at school for advice in filling those cracks and I got a whole bunch of different responses as well. So I took a varied approach; one that Im already counting on getting a lot of grief from you guys about...

But for my purposes it worked out perfect. I went with a thick CA (Slow ZAP) and drizzled many layers into the end grain of the split area. The fumes dont bother me, but it took a good hour of drizzling. Then after sanding the area down using a combination of belt, spindle, and random orbital sanders to reveal the air pockets within

the cracks, I simply finished it off with wood putty and more sanding by hand. Smooth as silk! Not pretty to look at, I admit. But as I will be painting this one anyway and its main purpose is to be the pattern for my silicone mould, Im perfectly happy with it. I also took some time to shape the heel contour a bit.

Man Prostheta, you were'nt kidding about keeping the body still with a sabre style carve on both sides! This thing wobbles like a Weebles no matter what side you have it on! I would have had my work cut out for me trying to do this all by hand! Tomorrow- the CORES!

+1 Fill now.

Not a fan of medium CA for cracks that large. It is hard to get it nice and clear with no bubbles. Not saying it can't be done... just not a fan.

Would you suggest the epoxy instead then? Or thin CA rather than medium?

Truthfully, I dont mind the angle on the strings. I actually like the way the strings Splay out after the nut on a Jackson HS. The only part that is slightly off-putting to me is the way the High e hovers over the area where there is no HS. Thats one thing that always put me off about the Pareker Fly as well. Not a huge issue, just a little nitpicky thing. I feel I can be that specific since the guitar as a whole is outstanding! But I really do love the shape of the headstock, seems to work slightly better on 6 string variations from what we've seen thus far however. i was simply attempting to point out an alternative to scrapping the 7 in-line in favor of a 4+3 on all future 7 string designs. I do recognize that it partially defeats the purpose of making the HS smaller and lighter. Theres always going to be a trade off when it comes to aesthetic appeal versus comfort and practicality. To this day I have yet to play a guitar whose body contour is more comfortable than a Fender Stratocaster, but that is at the cost of an exciting design.

I hadnt needed to think about this until now, but would it be advisable to finish shaping the body and sand blast the recessed graphic into the front before I attempt to fill the split gaps? I just worry that the dried CA (or whatever I end up using) will hold up better to sand blasting than the alder around it, leaving "veins" in that area of the graphic.

I had originally planned to finish this body using waterborne automotive base coat over polyester primer, and topped with automotive clear. Im not opposed to doing it differently though. I have even speculated on the idea of using a powder coating. I like the idea of finishing this in a non-traditional way as this is a relatively non tradition approach to guitar building already, but Im not sure what limitations are inherent in the materials im using. Any Help?

Im usually not a huge fan of guitars that are all made of fancy, spalted woods, but this thing is AMAZING!