col Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 Col, that simulation software you use? Electronics workbench Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zfrittz6 Posted December 16, 2006 Report Share Posted December 16, 2006 Col, the overtones in your circuit are investing the phase or by filter? the circuit I have fact with tda 7284 and tda7052, works from 3,8v. to 6v. perfectly and in all notes, single I need to fix the one of the overtones and for that reason queria to know if by means of passive filters it is possible to be done, with two c.i podria thus single all the circuit being very easy to do and with very few components. When this ready one I raise it. greetings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
col Posted December 16, 2006 Report Share Posted December 16, 2006 Col, the overtones in your circuit are investing the phase or by filter? Both! The mode switch alters the function of one of the op-amps. Depending on the switch position is is either a non-inverting buffer (normal mode), inverting buffer (full harmonic mode), all-pass filter(mixed mode 1) or inverting all-pass filter (mixed mode 2) the circuit I have fact with tda 7284 and tda7052, works from 3,8v. to 6v. perfectly and in all notes, single I need to fix the one of the overtones and for that reason queria to know if by means of passive filters it is possible to be done, with two c.i podria thus single all the circuit being very easy to do and with very few components. When this ready one I raise it. greetings What is wrong with the 'overtones' and which mode is not working ? If you give me more details, I should be able to tell you which component to tweak. One thing to note is that in mixed mode 1, the lowest octave of the guitar is 'choked' because of the way the all-pass filter effects the response. So this mode does not work on _every_ note. cheers Col Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted December 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2006 zfrittz6 the circuit I have fact with tda 7284 and tda7052, works from 3,8v. to 6v. perfectly and in all notes What kind of driver are you using? Are you running from a power supply? This device will draw a fair amount of current so although low voltages will work, button cell batteries and such will not have the grunt required... The TDA7052 BTL amp does look like a promising chip and the device I was proposing where the chip was in the driver assembly anticipated something like this. A "powered driver" if you will! Great news to see that someone else has replicated your design col with success... pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zfrittz6 Posted December 16, 2006 Report Share Posted December 16, 2006 in the first place as soon as it draws it I put the scheme to see the form that it works with the overtones without but c.i in that I believe that Col can solve it, by the others I use dual fine coil of 4ohmios each one that is as I have it in a guitar and in a other fine coil of 8ohmios and also this works perfectly that is to say, with the two coils very well and in addition note just as in the circuit of Col that before decaying the signal increases quickly, much more fast that in the one of Col, the batteries which I have proven are with 3 and 4 normal batteries r-6 and as much with 3 as with 4 works perfectly, although no I have been able to verify the consumption, but they have been 3 or and they have 4 hours not consumed hardly, because they were not new and I have not noticed that lower so I imagine that it does not consume hardly, and the notes even stabilize enough good in all the frets in fret 24 of my ibanez, single it lacks the harmonic way which to see if Col happens something to him not to use but opamp and to maintain the circuit with the minimum of components. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zfrittz6 Posted December 17, 2006 Report Share Posted December 17, 2006 Here this my circuit, to see if somebody is animated and it test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
col Posted December 17, 2006 Report Share Posted December 17, 2006 Here this my circuit, to see if somebody is animated and it test. Looks good, very simple. Unfortunately, that part (tda7284) is obsolete (I think?) and difficult to obtain particularly in a DIP package. Can you post some audio demos. I am particularly interested to hear the performance at low frequencies (82Hz-200Hz) with a clean sound. It is this low frequency region that forced me to increase the response time for my circuit... The main concern is distortion of the driver signal by the AGC at low frequencies - this causes background fizz which as you know is something we have been trying to erradicate for a while. I would really like to see if this circuit can be done with a power-amp that has AGC - then we would only need maybe a dual op-amp and the power-amp chip. TDA7052 seems like a good option for this... I wonder if you might be able to try out some of the class-d chips that are available as you seem to have the tools and/or skill to use these small SMD components. thanks Col Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zfrittz6 Posted December 17, 2006 Report Share Posted December 17, 2006 Col, I can assure to you that fizz is no the notes are clean in any fret and cord the form in which I am verifying it is with a loudspeaker in series with the coil and the sound is clean, when can I put some sounds so that you hear it, tda7284 here in where alive there is it in all the stores of components, and in one of them me they have requested it in smd and they said to me that the week next me they bring, so I do not believe it that this absoleto, on the CI. of class D they estan here but difficult to obtain then from 1w single encounter tda7052 although this is btl if you know some between 500mw and 1w I can ask and if there is it here I verify it I say you that with this circuit the volume potentiometer I have it to the minimum so I think that with 500mw tendria sufficient and less consumption, I think that perhaps it is by the cleaning of sound and the exit that tda7284 has that sera discharge. Col you think that the overtones opamp can be made without another one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
col Posted December 18, 2006 Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 Col, I can assure to you that fizz is no the notes are clean in any fret and cord the form in which I am verifying it is with a loudspeaker in series with the coil and the sound is clean, when can I put some sounds so that you hear it Thats good news, I'm glad there is no fizz If you setup an account at soundclick.com, you can upload demos there. tda7284 here in where alive there is it in all the stores of components, and in one of them me they have requested it in smd and they said to me that the week next me they bring, so I do not believe it that this absoleto, on the CI. None of the shops here or main mail order companies stock that part (rapid, farnell, RScomponents, maplin etc.) and when I search for it, I get companies who specialise in obsolete parts, thats why I made the assumption - and of course the fact that it is for cassette recorders which are pretty much an obsolete technology. of class D they estan here but difficult to obtain then from 1w single encounter tda7052 although this is btl if you know some between 500mw and 1w I can ask and if there is it here I verify it I say you that with this circuit the volume potentiometer I have it to the minimum so I think that with 500mw tendria sufficient and less consumption, I think that perhaps it is by the cleaning of sound and the exit that tda7284 has that sera discharge. oops... I meant tda7052A, note the 'A' it has an additional AGC that the standard 7052 does not have. Yep, I know its not a class-d chip, there are plenty of those out there though. here are a few low power class-d chips to check out: max9700, lm4673, lm4675, max4295, max9759, max9705, cm8685, lm4667, lm4670 Col you think that the overtones opamp can be made without another one? If you put the harmonic switch section before the AGC you will need an input buffer op-amp and an op amp for the all-pass/inverter etc. However, if the output impedence of the tda7284 is low enough, you could try putting the mode switch section after the AGC, before the power section - that way you only need one op-amp. Col Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zfrittz6 Posted December 18, 2006 Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 Col, if tda7284 you do not locate it, podria to send one to you, is very cheap about 2 or 3€ approximately. Almost all c.i that you have said to me already I have looked for them and there is no form to obtain them here, sees that c.i estan by zones. The one of the overtones I am trying to do it with tl072 using single one and seems that in the simulator it goes well to have if I have time and I do it then almost all I am doing it in the work and I do not have left long time, as soon as she has it all I place it fixed in the guitar and I raise sounds Greetings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted December 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 Interesting...col, is this a forward feed type compressor? pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
col Posted December 18, 2006 Report Share Posted December 18, 2006 Interesting...col, is this a forward feed type compressor? pete oops my bad, it's not actually an AGC, just a GC... still useful though We would have to provide a dc voltage control signal for it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted December 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2006 OK...so looking at my singlecoil pickups in the new guitar, the poles protude up to 3mm above the cover under some strings... One way of approaching a bi-lateral device would be to use Tim's epoxy/bobbinless/coreless jig to make coils that could accomodate those poles and flip three of the magnets and adjust to uniform height, hiding it all under the cover. The pickup would I assume be disabled (temporaraly) due to the magnets being fliped, but may work ok as a driver and look just like a conventional pickup. My only concern would be that these alnico poles are pretty strong and you want the driver close to the strings so that unwanted harmonic effects or even dampening of vibrations by these strong magnets may cause problems. An alternative would be to push them down even more and perhaps add some metal poles in the core and place them on top. If such a device worked as a mid driver for instance and/or no pickup function was required, a very neat single coil bi-lateral device could be made within a single coil cover. With smaller magnets, it would then be enough room to also include the poweramp part of the circuit I believe, though I am not sure if problems would not be created by the proximity of this circuit to the EMI of the driver. Ceratainly a 7052 requires little more than the chip itself to be installed in this way. Therefore, power and signal wires (4) would be all that is required to the driver and no driver cables would be within control cavities and the like. Instead of using an opamp to invert the siganl (thought there are benefits to this approach) these signal leads could be reversed to make the harmonic effect work with a small DPDT switch. These types of strategies may make col's circuit or otheres even smaller without resorting to SMD and keeping the thing within the DIY realm. Anyway, a lot of progress in the last few months and a lot of things to work on for the new year. I would like to thank all of those who have contributed and continue to do so through this stage and hope that we will see a lot more of these types of devices made and refined in 2007. Best wishes to all, and thanks to all those who have supported the thread and me personally in the last year, it is really appreciated. Take care... pete ps...zfrittz6...what is your native language, spanish? The translations are poor but your work interesting, I have a member who can translate some Castillian Spanish if that is of any use...let me know... p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
col Posted December 19, 2006 Report Share Posted December 19, 2006 ...Instead of using an opamp to invert the siganl (thought there are benefits to this approach) these signal leads could be reversed to make the harmonic effect work with a small DPDT switch. These types of strategies may make col's circuit or otheres even smaller without resorting to SMD and keeping the thing within the DIY realm. Except that you will get extra fizz either in normal mode or harmonic more (dependent on the polarity of your circuit) - and you still won't get the more useful mixed modes, you need an op-amp filter for those. Col Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zfrittz6 Posted December 19, 2006 Report Share Posted December 19, 2006 Col, like completing for the mixed mode? If you can have if it sights and you can do it with the minimum of components, since I of mathematical filters and calculations do not understand much, my electronics is very basic since what studies it was the repair. Pete, I feel much that the translations are so bad, to my also costs much to understand many things to me, and some times I remain by halves, mainly in some interesting aspects that I do not finish including/understanding, but good that we go to him to do, to see without with the schematic ones we are included/understood better, and another thing I am of Granada-Spain. If something entendeis, not to ask it well and to have if I explain it of another form that is understood. Thanks for everything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truth_David Posted December 19, 2006 Report Share Posted December 19, 2006 Col, like completing for the mixed mode? If you can have if it sights and you can do it with the minimum of components, since I of mathematical filters and calculations do not understand much, my electronics is very basic since what studies it was the repair. Pete, I feel much that the translations are so bad, to my also costs much to understand many things to me, and some times I remain by halves, mainly in some interesting aspects that I do not finish including/understanding, but good that we go to him to do, to see without with the schematic ones we are included/understood better, and another thing I am of Granada-Spain. If something entendeis, not to ask it well and to have if I explain it of another form that is understood. Thanks for everything First of all sorry to break the forum rules, but have to speak to frittz in Spanish .... Hola Frittz, soy David....mira, no tengo mucho tiempo, ni muchos conocimientos de lo que se trata de los circuitos electrónicos y la terminologÃa especializada de este campo de conocimiento, pero si, creo que estarÃa capaz de hacerte algunas traducciones quizás algo más inteligibles que los que se producen en tus mensajes. Entonces si quieres pasarme los mensajes que más te cuestan traducir intentaré hacer lo que puedo, ¿vale....? Vivo en Orihuela, cerca de Murcia y soy inglés. Igualmente si hay algo aquà que te cuesta entender, podrÃa intentar traducirlo si lo deseas. Hay que decir que realmente me cuesta entender tu último mensaje por arriba, es que en inglés no tiene sentido.... Hasta entonces, y Felice Navidad For the rest of you, what I believe Frittz is trying to say is: "....(it would be good) if you could provide it in diagramatic form with a minimum of components, as I have little understanding of mathematical filters and calculations, due to my training having been in the field of repairs, my knowledge of electronics is very basic. I feel that sometimes my translations are bad, and I also find it difficult to understand more than half of what is said in these posts, especially some specific points of interest which I do not fully comprehend. So it would be good to be able to turn to him especially for the non-schematic information. By the way, I am from Granada, Spain. If I have difficulty explaining something it would be good to have someone explain it more clearly. Thanks for everything...." Sorry but I really did not get what he was trying to say about mixed mode I hope this helps, but please realize the limitations of my time constraints, as well as ignorance of technology specific terminology David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted December 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2006 Thanks Dave, the internet crosses many boundaries but language is still a problem. Except that you will get extra fizz either in normal mode or harmonic more (dependent on the polarity of your circuit) - and you still won't get the more useful mixed modes, you need an op-amp filter for those. Hmmm...unless, well see...I think there are still things yet to explore in this...the op amp solutions are the best though, but I like the idea of a small simple circuit that will do the job and get people into this and then upgrade later perhaps. Your circuitry ideas have significant merit. Other things to explore is perhaps push button momentary controls on the harmonic mode and such, this type of thing if designed into the device would add another level of expression. Gradually, the DIY sustainer is starting to surpass the comercial units in functionality and design. All it needs is more involvement and building of the devices and putting them to musical use to make it a workable "product" or option for custom builders and repairers to install... I am predicting that this will be the next stage in this project and as far as this particular device is likely to go...though I could be wrong. There must be simpler ways to achieve the results we are aiming for, and I'd still like to see some kind of mid-driver for strat type guitars. Installation issues will still be a problem and I note that this advanced sustainer circuitry has not been used with all the bypassing switching required for multi-pickup guitars... The rotary mode switch however is pretty cool I must say! There could be some legs in the ebow type devices. The ebow is a classic and well thought out design, you have to give it that. Is there scope for a DIY version or to work towards something better or with more functionality? It's tricky to know, but given that such a device would not require modifying a guitar at all, it would be an interesting thing to play around with. I have had ideas along these lines and ways in which the Hex stuff could be used to make it smaller perhaps...but, a "sustainer pick" is very unlikely! It may be possible to make something where the circuitry and battery are remote from the device, but there will have to be some wiring from it, and then perhaps it will be too small to really use it. The ebow may seem a bit bulky, but it is a good ergonomic size for the hand and is easy to guide appropriately over the string...with out some guiding mechanism it would be very difficult to use... Someone might like to explore the use of the sustainer on bass guitars. I tried the sustain box, but I have a split P-bass pickup on my bass and so would need a split driver to go with it. The results were ok on the high strings and I think the biggest problem was that the circuit I was using was not designed for such low frequencies. The up side is that these low, loose, thick strings are easy to drive and the scale length so long that it is not hard to provide the necessary separation between pickups and driver. This would be one application where our designs would excell as the thin driver can easily fit under the strings of most basses as a surface mounted device and would require no permanent modification... enough for now... pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truth_David Posted December 20, 2006 Report Share Posted December 20, 2006 Sorry.....more Spanish Hola zFrittz, He olvidado decir en mi mensaje que si quieres, podrÃas mandarme el contenido de tus mensajes para que yo los traduzco por el grupo, por lo momento, con la provisión que no sean demasiado frecuentes ni amplios, ¿vale? Y no olvides que me carece todo conocimiento de la terminologÃa de esta ciencia de la electrónica... Mi correo-e es: truthseeker57@gmail.com Hasta pronto, David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truth_David Posted December 20, 2006 Report Share Posted December 20, 2006 Frittz, aquà tienes el post original, y por debajo de cada comentario he puesto la traducción....espero que esto te ayude [Hmmm...unless, well see...I think there are still things yet to explore in this...the op amp solutions are the best though, but I like the idea of a small simple circuit that will do the job and get people into this and then upgrade later perhaps. Hmmm....si no, veramos....Pienso que nos quedan cosas todavÃa para explorar en esto...las soluciones para el 'op amp son los que más valoran, pero a mi me gusta la idea de un pequeño circuito que puede hacer el trabajo y interesar a la gente en eso para quizás más tarde volver a actualizar la idea. Your circuitry ideas have significant merit. Other things to explore is perhaps push button momentary controls on the harmonic mode and such, this type of thing if designed into the device would add another level of expression. Gradually, the DIY sustainer is starting to surpass the comercial units in functionality and design. All it needs is more involvement and building of the devices and putting them to musical use to make it a workable "product" or option for custom builders and repairers to install... I am predicting that this will be the next stage in this project and as far as this particular device is likely to go...though I could be wrong. Tus ideas para los circuitos tienen un merito significativo. Otras cosas para explorar serÃan quizás algunos controlos momentaneos del tipo botón de apretar (interruptor) para el modo harmónico y cosas asÃ, que si fuera integrado adentro del diseño pudiera añadir otro nivel de expresión. Poco a poco el 'Sustainer' nuestro no comercial está empezando a sobrepasar los modelos comerciales en cuanto a funcion y diseño. Todo lo que falta es más involucrarse en esto y la construcción de dispositivos y ponerlos en uso para hacer música para acabar con un 'producto' que funciona, o más bien un proyecto opcional para los constructores de instrumentos 'custom' – hechos y los lutiers para instalar. ...Será mi predicción que esto será la proxima etapa de este proyecto en cuanto a este dispositivo en particular... aunque podrÃa ser equivocado. There must be simpler ways to achieve the results we are aiming for, and I'd still like to see some kind of mid-driver for strat type guitars. Installation issues will still be a problem and I note that this advanced sustainer circuitry has not been used with all the bypassing switching required for multi-pickup guitars... The rotary mode switch however is pretty cool I must say! Tiene que haber maneras más sencillos para lograr a los resultados que buscamos, y me gustarÃa todavÃa ver un tipo de 'mid-driver' por las guitarras del tipo 'Stratocaster'. La instalación va a permanecer siendo problemático, y noto que estos circuitos avanzados tipo 'Sustainer' todavÃa no ha sido empleado con todas posibles permutaciones de conmutador requeridas por las guitarras con multiples pastillas....¡Sin embargo tengo que decir que el conmutador rotario me parece genial! There could be some legs in the ebow type devices. The ebow is a classic and well thought out design, you have to give it that. Is there scope for a DIY version or to work towards something better or with more functionality? It's tricky to know, but given that such a device would not require modifying a guitar at all, it would be an interesting thing to play around with. Pero podriamos tener algún tipo de soporte fÃsico en los dispositivos del tipo e-bow. Es un diseño clásico y bien concebido, tenemos que concedir esto. ¿Tenré quizás la posibilidad para hacernos una versión nuestra o que pongamos a diseñar algo mejor con más funcionalidad? Sé que no serÃa facÃl, pero visto que un tal dispositivo no necesitará ningún tipo de modificacción de la guitarra, puede ser una idea muy interestante para considerar. I have had ideas along these lines and ways in which the Hex stuff could be used to make it smaller perhaps...but, a "sustainer pick" is very unlikely! It may be possible to make something where the circuitry and battery are remote from the device, but there will have to be some wiring from it, and then perhaps it will be too small to really use it. The ebow may seem a bit bulky, but it is a good ergonomic size for the hand and is easy to guide appropriately over the string...with out some guiding mechanism it would be very difficult to use... He tenido ideas tratando de cómo uno se puede emplear las pastillas 'Hexafónicas' para reducir su tamaño, ¡pero un plectro del tipo 'Sustainer' (una sugerencia de David) es muy inprobable! Puede ser posible construir algo con la pila y los circuitos en un dispositivo aparte del Sustainer, pero tendré siempre que ser conectado por algunos hilos, y entonces puede resultar siendo demasiado pequeño para poder emplearlo. El e-bow puede parecer algo difÃcil a manejar, pero es un tamaño ergonomico bueno por la mano y facÃl de guiar apropiadamente al largo de la cuerda...sin tener algún tipo de mécanismo para guiarlo puede ser muy difÃcil emplearlo... Someone might like to explore the use of the sustainer on bass guitars. I tried the sustain box, but I have a split P-bass pickup on my bass and so would need a split driver to go with it. The results were ok on the high strings and I think the biggest problem was that the circuit I was using was not designed for such low frequencies. The up side is that these low, loose, thick strings are easy to drive and the scale length so long that it is not hard to provide the necessary separation between pickups and driver. This would be one application where our designs would excell as the thin driver can easily fit under the strings of most basses as a surface mounted device and would require no permanent modification... Alguien puede considerar explorar el uso del 'Sustainer' por los bajos. He comprobado el 'Sustain box', pero he construido una pastilla dividida tipo 'P-bajo' encima de mi bajo, y entonces me harÃa falta de un 'driver' para usar en conjunto con la pastilla. Los resultados fueron buenos por las cuerdas más agudas, y pienso que el mayor problema era que el circuito empleado no fue disñenado para frecuencias tan bajas. En el lado positivo, estas nuevas cuerdas flojas son faciles de empujar, y la escala tan larga que no resulta difÃcil proveer la separación necesaria entre las pastillas y el 'driver'. Esto serÃa una aplicación por donde nuestros diseños van a lucir, cómo el 'driver' tan delgado puede entonces ser posicionado facilmente por debajo de las cuerdas de la mayorÃa de los bajos cómo un dispositivo montado encima del instrumento, sin requerir ninguna forma de modificación permanente.... enough for now... pete Basta por el momento Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truth_David Posted December 20, 2006 Report Share Posted December 20, 2006 Well, I am quite willing to test out whatever prototypes anyone is willing to put in my hands. I will certainly be able to give you useful feedback on its good and bad points. But I am not much disposed toward actually hacking my instruments physically, especially the Strat, as the fact that it already has the RMC Hexaphonic system built in makes the circuitry vulnerable and complicated, especially for me, as my understanding of electronics per se is zilch! Pues yo soy muy dispuesto a comprobar cualquier prototipo que cualquiera mu puso en las manos. EstarÃa sin duda capaz de proveer una reacción útil sobre sus puntos buenos y malos. Pero no me encuentro muy bien dispuesto a actualmente ponerme a fisicamente hacer modificaciones permanentes a mi instrumento, especialmente cómo mi Stratocaster ya tiene puesto un sistema RMC hexafónico que hace que la electrónica sea vulnerable y complicada, ¡especialmente para mi, ya que no tengo la más minima idea de la electrónica! When you say 'mid' driver, are you referring to mid frequencies or the 'middle' pickup of a Strat for example? The downside of rotary switches in an actual performance context is for the musician to know exactly what each position does. As for the most part in the case of lets say a 5 or 6 position rotary switch (some time ago I had one fitted in order to make different out of phase pickup combinations possible), once one is actually performing, rather than experimenting in a controlled situation at home, it becomes imperative to be absolutely sure what sound will be produced, otherwise the tendency is to avoid using it so as not to suddenly find oneself with an inappropriate sound at just the wrong moment in the performance. It is also a problem inherent with changing between patch memories and having too many choices! Cuando dices 'mid' driver ¿se refiere a las frecuencias o a la pastilla en la posición central de un Stratocaster por ejemplo? Lo negativo de los conmutadores rotarios es que en el contexto de una actuación actual el músico tiene que ser muy seguro del resultando sonido para cada posición, si no no va a arriesgar usarlo y acabar en el peor momento con un sonido no adecuado. En la mayorÃa en el caso de decimios un conmutador rotario de 5 o 6 posiciones (lo que hace tiempo me hizo poner en mi instrumento para poder aprovechar de varios posiciones de fase de las pastillas) una vez de ser realmente actuando en la escena en frente de una audiencia, en vez de estar experimentando en el ambiente seguro de su casa, serÃa imprescindible saber exactamente lo que serÃa el sonido producido en cada posición, si no la tendencia será de evitar de utilizarlo para no encontrarse en la situación ya mencionado arriba. Es un problema que encontramos igualmente con lo que es tener demasiadas elecciones en los 'presets' (parches asignados de antemano) en un dispositivo. Fitting legs to an e-bow, unless fitted to some sort of track with completely mobile runners for me would not seem a workable option. The idea I mentioned of having some way of reducing the size and weight of an e-bow type of device was with a view to being able to attach it to the edge of the hand or the palm, leaving the fingers free either to pick, tap or use a plectrum or combinations of all three. My thinking is that as most guitarists are used to in one way or other anchoring the right hand so that the strings not being used can be damped, as well as for more picking precision, there should be no real need for any device to keep the e-bow at the right level in relation to the strings, provided that is, that it were small and light enough not to influence the hand position.....can you visualize any better now my concept? So then, you would only be really considering some form of hand held driver without tracks, without needing to be string specific. The problem would be trying to damp the strings not being used, without interfering with the magnetic field of the device. That is why in some ways it might be better if it could be made a part of the plectrum. Poner suportes a un e-bow, si no fuese hecho con algún tipo de pista con piezas completamente libres para moverse, esto no me parecerÃa una opción para considerar. La idea que mencionó para en alguna manera reducir el tamaño y peso de un dispositivo del tipo 'e-bow' fue con el propósito de poder fijarselo al borde de la mano o adentro de la palma, asà permitiendo un movimiento libre de los dedos para tocar, rasguear o bien golpear o combinaciones de todos (simultaneamente con el uso separado del Sustainer). Estoy pensando en lo que es la disciplina y tendencia que tiene la mayorÃa de los guitarristas eléctricos de utilizar un dedo o más encima del golpeador para dar más control del toque o bien para fijar la mano para poder mudar las cuerdas no empleadas, entonces con la provisión que el dispositivo sea lo suficientemente ligero y pequeño para no influir en la posición de la mano encima de las cuerdas, no deberÃa entonces haber ninguna necesidad de cualquier mecanÃsmo de soporte para mantener el e-bow al nivel correcto con relación a las cuerdas....¿ahora podrás mejor imaginar mi concepto? Entonces estariamos únicamente considerando algún tipo de dispositivo tenido en la mano sin pistas, y sin la necesidad de ser especÃfico para cualquiera cuerda. El problema será intentar mudar las cuerdas no usadas sin interferir en el campo magnético del dispositivo. Por esto he sugerido que podrÃa ser mejor cómo una parte del plectro (utilizando el plano más largo para influir en la resonancia de más de una cuerda). Regarding what you suggested in terms of a hexaphonic based project, as I already have a hex pickup, that would be very interesting to me, provided it did not interfere with what my instrument already does. In that regard, my Strat is fitted with a pickguard, which as we all know can hide a multitude of sins, so might be a good subject for a hex based project. Speaking of small, how about something so small that it could be made to fit on the inside of one's thumb? Then it would not interfere with muting, and the thumb could be lowered over the string or strings that we needed to sustain...just another thought. As regards the wiring....anybody considered the use of fibre-optics. I feel that this technology is seriously under-used. There is simply no need for all the cables we have to use. Let's consider the example of an Sp/dif connection. Here we have two fibre optical cables which are of a comparatively small diameter carrying whatever signal to and fro between devices. The other thing is that fibre optics cables a very lightweight. The downside is that they tend to be somewhat rigid. But I am sure that could be worked around. But there are no wires to solder and subsequently suffer from 'dry joints', and clustering hundreds of such cables would take up next to no space compared with standard wiring technology. And as far as I am aware, a single fibre can carry the necessary signal in either direction. This is why fibre-optics has been revolutionizing the Telecommunications industry. So I think that this technology especially in this application might be a real solution as a viable alternative to normal wiring connections between devices. Why not try? En lo que serÃa un proyecto basado en las pastillas hexafónicas, cómo mi instrumento ya dispone de una pastilla hexafónica, esto puede ser bastante interesante para mi, con la provisión que no interfiera con lo que hace ya mi instrumento. En cuanto a esto, mi Strat dispone de un golpeador, que cómo sabemos todos es capaz de disimular un multitúd de pecados (cómo decimos en inglés), entonces puede ser bueno cómo el sujeto de un proyecto basado en las pastillas hexafónicas. Hablando de disminuir el tamaño, ¿cómo te parece algo tan pequeño que se puede hecho para ser fijado por el plano interior del pulgar? Asà no va a interferir con lo que es mudar, y cuando sea necesario, uno puede bajar el pulgar encima de la cuerda o más de una de las que deseamos afectar...nada más que otro pensamiento. Ahora con relación al cableado...¿alguien ha considerado el uso de la tecnologÃa de la fibra-óptica? Opino yo que esta tecnologÃa se resulta demasiado poco empleada. Simplemente no hay necesidad para todos los cables que empleamos. Consideramos el ejemplo de una conexión de Sp/dif. Ahà tenemos a dos cables fibra-ópticas de un diametro comparativamente estrecho para conducir cualquier señal entre los dispositivos en ambas direcciones. La otra cosa es que los cables fibra-opticos no pesan mucho. En el lado negativo teinden a ser bastante rigidos, pero estoy seguro que esto se puede solucionar. Pero no hay ningunos hilos para soldar y tampoco sufren de las conexiones secas, y ajuntando cientos de tales cables no exigirÃa nada de espacio comparado con el cableado estandard. Y según mi entendimiento, una sola fibra puede conducir el señal en cualquiera dirección. Es por esto que esta tecnologÃa ha sido revolucionando la industrÃa de las telecomunicaciones.. Entonces creo que esa tecnologÃa, especialmente en esta aplicación puede ser una solución real cómo alternativa viable a los conexiones normales entre los dispositivos. ¿Porqué no lo comprobamos? Someone might also like to try this technology on a Chapman Stick. That would also change the potential for expression of that instrument, as it really does not work for 'normal' guitaristic approaches, but could quite possibly lend itself to 'Sustainer' techniques better than a guitar, and also provide a far greater tonal range. I have never been able to afford one, but would have loved to have one to experiment with! Alguien puede interesarse también en lo que es comprobar esta tecnologÃa en un 'Chapman Stick'. Esto cambiara igualmente su potencial para la expresión, cómo realmente no funciona muy bien para las formas de tocarlo cómo una guitarra, sin embargo puede ser mejor adjustado a las tecnicas empleadas para un 'Sustainer' que una guitarra normal, tanto cómo proveer un mayor registro tonal. ¡Nunca he podido adquirir uno porque son tan caros, pero me gustarÃa obtenir uno con lo cual experimentar! I apologize for the length of this post, but effectively the Spanish translation doubles the size.... David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zfrittz6 Posted December 20, 2006 Report Share Posted December 20, 2006 Truth_David, gracias por ofrecerte para hacer algunas traducciones, la vedad es que intento postear lo minimo porque se las limitaciones de mis traducciones y pueden llevar a confusiones, en el post anterior queria decir que haber si Col que es uno de los que mas han desarroyado esto, al tener conocimiento de calculos sobre los filtros paso-altos y paso-bajos pudiera de alguna forma implementar el circuito expuesto antes, para tener los modos mezclados de su circuito para adaptarlos al mio, tambien le dije que si queria le puedo mandar algun tda7284 para que el pueda experimentar con el, y comprobar por si mismo lo que es capaz de hacer este circuito, pues de todos los que he montado para el sustainer este es el que mejor ha funcionado en todas las cuerdas y trastes, la mayoria de los demas circuitos que he probado y no han sido pocos, siempre hay algunas notas que se resisten a vibrar, cosa que con este integrado no pasa, es decir ni siquiera con el circuito de Col que es de lo mas avanzado no he alcanzado lo que con este ultimo. Saludos y feliz Navidad a todos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted December 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2006 Here is an interesting thread with an installation diagram for the Fernandes Sustainer (note the switches are mounted to the circuit board... Ok, so wires A and B are soldered to the input and input ground on the Modboard. Wires C and D are just left as per this diagram, yeah? I just want to be sure on this before I crack out the solder! Thanks, Chris The thread is about installing a sustainer and a modboard onboard delay... pete ps...click the pink arrow at the top of the quote to go to the thread directly from here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
col Posted December 25, 2006 Report Share Posted December 25, 2006 Merry Christmas everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truth_David Posted December 26, 2006 Report Share Posted December 26, 2006 Truth_David, gracias por ofrecerte para hacer algunas traducciones, la vedad es que intento postear lo minimo porque se las limitaciones de mis traducciones y pueden llevar a confusiones, en el post anterior queria decir que haber si Col que es uno de los que mas han desarroyado esto, al tener conocimiento de calculos sobre los filtros paso-altos y paso-bajos pudiera de alguna forma implementar el circuito expuesto antes, para tener los modos mezclados de su circuito para adaptarlos al mio, tambien le dije que si queria le puedo mandar algun tda7284 para que el pueda experimentar con el, y comprobar por si mismo lo que es capaz de hacer este circuito, pues de todos los que he montado para el sustainer este es el que mejor ha funcionado en todas las cuerdas y trastes, la mayoria de los demas circuitos que he probado y no han sido pocos, siempre hay algunas notas que se resisten a vibrar, cosa que con este integrado no pasa, es decir ni siquiera con el circuito de Col que es de lo mas avanzado no he alcanzado lo que con este ultimo. Saludos y feliz Navidad a todos Hola zfrittz6, disculpame por no haber contestado antes, pero los últimos dÃas han sido un lÃo para mÃ, entonces no he tenido tiempo para entrar en el Internet. Pero Feliz Navidad igualmente y un FelÃz Año Nuevo si no hablamos antes. Aquà tienes la traducción de tú último post - espero esta vez haber sido lo suficientemente preciso en determinar exactamente lo que quisieras difundir al grupo: Hi all, and Merry Christmas.....here is a translation of what zfrittz6 posted above: The truth is that I try to post only the bare minimum, because I amaware of my limitated translation ability, which could lead to confusion. In the previous post I wanted to ask whether Col, who seems to be one of those to have most developed this (project), having an understanding of high-pass and low-pass filter calculations, might somehow manage to implement the circuit I submitted previously, in order for me to obtain the mixed modes of his circuit adapted to my own circuit; also I was saying that if he wanted me to, I could send him a tda7284 so he could experiment with it and see for himself what it is capable of doing and how much better it functions on all the strings and in every fret position. Using most of the circuits I have tried (and they were many), and even Col's circuit, which is more advanced, I have not been able to achieve the same results, and I found that there were always notes that just would not vibrate (sustain), a problem that this present prototype of mine seems to have overcome. Greetings and Merry Christmas to everyone. I hope that this translation will be sufficiently clear and accurate so as to avoid any confusion, and hope it helps bring further advances in your combined efforts toward a better product. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all of you. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted December 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2006 Merry Christmas...oh, it's over and I am already back at work...never mind the New Year is coming... Thanks for the Translation David...I know it's tricky for all concerned, zfrittz6 seems to be doing some interesting stuff...but the posts are confusing. At one stage I thought he was saying he had been successful with a mid driver...now it seems he is having trouble with replicating (kind of) cols work. There are a lot of variables, especially in driver design and people should view the circuitry as only a small part of the overall equation...afterall, it does work with very basic low powered amplification and a simple single coil driver. As the late Lovekraft pointed out, very early on, it is the driver that needed developing...circuitry voodoo can improve things, but you want to start those improvements from a high a base performance as possible. I think my guitar and CurtisA's should serve as a benchmark for how such a system can work with very good performance. Col's work serves as a benchmark for both improvements in circuitry and in the dual driver design, this later point should not be overlooked. I suspect many problems are associated with poor construction as much as anything. It may require a few drivers to be made to get this down right, I don't know. It may well be, when I have a chance to do some work on this again and sustainerize my new guitar, that I will be able to come up with a more standardised approach to construction techniques. I remain impressed by the coils that Tim was able to make with that simple jig and making coils in this way to fit onto pickups or constuct into drivers may well be the best approach for a consistant result, neat and solves the bobbin making problem. I think that we will be settling into a period of replicating and experimenting with the ideas put forward late in 2006. I'd like to see col's work replicated successfully (I may well do that), I'd like to try a rail design based on a rail pickup (thanks shawn), I'd also like to experiment with the bilateral ideas too....then there is the mid-driver (hmmm) and maybe some more thoughts on ebow like devices. Anyway...what ever happens in the new year, the second half of 2006 was entertaining and enlightening and showed that progress could be made with some fresh ideas and personalities...thanks to all concerned...stay in touch... pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts