slor

Methinks you're not reading the original post: "Even with the truss rod good and tight, the neck has a healthy upbow"

He doesn't have backbow. That would (potentially) be less of a problem.

(note that I'm not reading the original post fully either, as he's already tried what I suggested to no avail, at least the first bit, but we're ignoring that.)

Indeed. But I appreciate the help nonetheless. I strung the bass up today as-is and relief is close to .03. At this point I'm thinking the fretboard is going to have to come off. I'm not sure how to diagnose a broken truss rod (other than an extremely obvious deformation or break). But I don't believe conventional techniques are going to help in this case. Thanks again people!

-Seth

Here's my problem of the week: I have on the bench a fairly well-beaten Fender P-Bass neck, looks to be early-70s vintage. Even with the truss rod good and tight, the neck has a healthy upbow. Even after inserting a washer into the truss rod cavity behind the nut, and clamping the neck into backbow before tightening the rod, the best I can get is a somewhat flat neck. I imagine that will change under string tension. Any other ideas?

Thanks,

Seth

Hi All,

This is my first reset, a nice but thankfully cheap '50s Kay archtop. Getting the neck off was easy: A couple of moderate taps with a plastic-faced hammer and it was out. Now comes the hard part. I'm assuming that I'll need to scrape/clean all the glue faces. That's straightforward enough.

If I press the neck into the pocket and run a straightedge over the frets to the bridge, the edge falls more or less on top of the bridge in full lowered position. I'm assuming I want quite a bit more leeway than that though, so the questions are:

1. How do I determine the angle to glue the neck back in?

2. Once that's done, how do I reshape the neck fit into the pocket? Sanding down the tongue and bottom of the heel, I assume, but any tips would be really appreciated!

http://thegoldenbears.net/images/Kay5.jpg

http://thegoldenbears.net/images/Kay6.jpg

http://thegoldenbears.net/images/Kay7.jpg

Thanks,

Seth

I'm working on a cheapo Kay solidbody. When I got it, the truss rod was frozen, the neck had a pronounced upbow and the fingerboard was beginning to separate from the neck. So I removed the fingerboard, removed, cleaned and lubed the (very rusty) truss rod and thought all was well.

However, even with the truss rod functioning (and the fingerboard not yet reattached), the neck won't lose its upbow. Does the wooden spline the truss rod flexes against need to be lengthened (see photo #4)? Does the neck need to be jigged and steamed straight? Any advice would be most appreciated!

Thanks,

Seth

http://thegoldenbears.net/images/Kay1.jpg

http://thegoldenbears.net/images/Kay2.jpg

http://thegoldenbears.net/images/Kay3.jpg

http://thegoldenbears.net/images/Kay4.jpg

Looks like your stain needs some red brown in the mix for a better color match.

To get the least noticeable look, you are going to have to strip and sand the entire neck down, then dye / color it all together.

Darker colors will tend to hide the glue line more if thats where you want to go.

Well, given that the rest of the guitar is in onlhy fair shape cosmetically, I can live with a less-than-perfect match. I'm more concerned with the seam between old (bottom of the neck and body) and new (headstock).

By the way, I went with a toner rather than a stain, as that's how the guitar came to me. Seems like a stain would be more controllable, but the headstock is already grain-filled and sealed under CA glue....

Thanks much,

Seth

Here we have a mid-70's Flying V. Headstock has been broken at least twice, current repair is stable. Problem is, several partial refins have been done as well, leaving the headstock and about 1/3rd of the neck stripped. After grain filling and sealing, I tried to match with Mohawk "Colonial Maple" (I don't have a spraygun rig), and the color looked passable at first (the rest of the guitar is pretty beat cosmetically so no big deal here).

However, under clear lacquer the color difference is really apparent. And obviously, the "hard V" color separation line is not working too well. Given the state of the rest of the guitar, I can live with the fact that there won't be a perfect color match.

What should I do about the color separation line? Try to keep it clean and hard? Fade/feather it in to better match the rest of the guitar?

Many thanks,

Seth

<img>

http://thegoldenbears.net/images/Headstock1.jpg

</img>

I like the waterbased Stew-Mac stuff because I can cure it REALLy fast in the heatbox, it sands real well but it takes forever to fill mahogany. I can usually fill mahogany in 2 hours doing coats every 30 minutes.

Chris

I'm having the same issue with mahogany; it seems to take multiple coats to fill the pores.

Here's a question: How far back do you have to sand the grain filler? Obviously if you're staining the wood you want it sanded back to wood (minus the pores of course). But if you're just proceeding with finishing, couldn't you leave the grain filler somewhat rough in the knowledge that sanding sealer and then clearcoats will even it out? (I'm using waterbase grain filler and leaving the wood natural).

Thanks,

Seth

Well, 600 is a bit rough for the wet sanding. And 4-5 coats of can nitro, well that is too thin to begin with. If I'm using nitro from a can, I use about 3 cans before I do any wet sanding, and that is about 15-20 triple pass coats.

And then I will begin with 800 depending on how bad was the surface at the time. And after I wet sand it nice and smooth I shoot one more pass, med-heavy. If you are good with the can, this last pass will look nice and smooth with no orange peel and after about 2-4 weeks you can start to polish. If the finish is not smooth you can start with 1500 grit paper and up.

Hmm...yes, that's more clearcoating than I was planning on doing (I was thinking more like 9 coats, as per ReRanch's suggestion).

Even so, I only chose to sand after 4 - 5 coats to get rid of lint, not as a final or intermediate polishing....

Thanks,

Seth

(1) What grit sandpaper are you using to sand out the lint?

(2) What kind of clear coat are you using....and if its not nitro, are you scuff sanding between coats? (and with what grit)

(3) Are you using spray cans or shooting with a gun?

Thanks for the reply:

(1) 600 grit, well soaked

(2) ReRanch clear nitro

(3) Rattle can

This morning as I inspected the guitar before the first spraying, it occurred to me that any sanded area has a different appearance from its surrounding, even if it hasn't been sanded through to the color coat. Even under a new coat of clear, it will have that different appearance until the whole guitar is polished back to that "sanded" color tone.

So it's possible that I overreacted in respraying color over the sanded areas. But maybe not; it would be terrible to get to the polishing stage and find that those different-colored sanded areas really WERE a different color, and you'd have to start again from scratch. Any thoughts?

Thanks much,

Seth

That's the million-dollar question, no doubt. I'm refinning an early '70s P-Bass. The color was great, and I had a good 4 - 5 coats of clear on top. I found a couple of specks of lint, VERY carefully sanded them off, and resprayed clear. Even so, the small sanded areas are a different shade under the new coat of clear. So I resprayed color, and now am building the clear back up, being extra-extra careful about lint.

All good. But now my clearcoating schedule is shot; instead of having 4 or 5 good coats of clear, I'm back to square 1 in terms of final polishing, right? Is there something I should be doing differently?

Many thanks,

Seth

I'm painting two Gibson pegheads black, one is a Melody Maker refinned in clear lacquer, the other is a Flying V with a pretty crappy peghead repair. Different situations, but essentially the same issue: How to best prep them?

-The peghead of the Flying V is stripped down to bare wood. I've never used epoxy as a grain filler before, but because the peghead is going to have a good bit of filling and sanding, it seems like a good time to try the "nuclear option" rather than the standard mahogany grain fill. Any advice?

-With the Melody Maker, can I level the existing finish (maybe using a coat or two of sanding sealer) and spray on that, or is there a reason to go down to bare wood and do the whole grain fill/sanding sealer/color/clearcoat bit?

Many thanks,

Seth

No, it enters from the heel and doesn't make it too far into the body, I'm guessing. Certainly not as far as the pickup rout.

Wow, 3D diagrams and everything! Most impressive....

Personally, I think Prostheta's earlier idea is the best given my skill level: I know how to pull a fingerboard, and with a little guidance can rout out the neck pocket to accept a longer tenon.

I just remembered seeing an older Guild Starfire (an early single-pickup model with the p/u further back towards the bridge). The neck had been replaced completely, suggesting Guild had issues with this arrangement. I have a similar-vintage Starfire guitar, which fortunately shows no signs of failure!

Many thanks again gents!

-Seth

Hmm.

Here's the story: Since early this year my job has been as the tech at a small guitar shop; I've been messing with electric guitars for 25 years or so, but only recently getting into more serious repairs. I think this job is within my skill level--within limits. Sawing off half the heel, or removing the fingerboard, I could do, but they'd be a stretch. Carefully gluing a new tenon into place, and deepening the pocket, I think I can do. (I do have a friend I can call on for help with the routing operation.)

The bass was offered to me by a guitar dealer I know; he knew I liked Guild basses (I already have one) and my idea is to sell it when done. So no, there's no personal attachement to the instrument, but it's got to look good and play well (and be structurally sound) if I want anyone to buy it!

-Seth

Interesting...interesting.

Prostheta: Good call on the fingerboard. Yes it has started to separate from the heel, only about an inch or so, I was going to use gap-filling CA and leave it at that. And no, the dowel was drilled in from the outside of the heel down into the pocket.

Jeffhigh: I hadn't thought of such a radical step, though it makes sense to me.

Only issue with both your guys' suggestions is that I have limited shop space and tools (hand planer, bench sander, Dremel plunge router), and more to the point limited skills. I can get my head around replacing the existing tenon, but I'm hesitant to go further. I would like to take the heel back further towards the pickup cavity, but I wouldn't even know where to start. Sawing the "cut lines" and then gradually plunge-routing the middle out? Chiseling?

Thanks again you guys, this is really helping!

-Seth

Thanks for the tip...turns out I was just moving too fast. It's waterbased filler, and all my references said "move quickly before it sets up" but once I started waiting a few minutes it behaved much better!

Thanks,

Seth

Thanks much guys, this makes good sense. I thought the dovetail arrangement in the pocket looked unusual but don't know enough about them to know how they're "supposed" to be constructed.

Yes, good cleanup seems important. I'm guessing the rubbery yellow glue traces on the bottom of the fingerboard is old wood glue, I heated it pretty well but it's tenacious.

Finally, any tips on doweling the new tenon into place? Seems like it should be: Drill into the new tenon and the heel to accept the dowel (notched to allow excess glue to escape). Wood or hide glue the dowel into the tenon, then glue the tenon assembly into the heel. I'm guessing I'll want the new tenon to be a fairly snug fit in the pocket, but loose enough to accept glue without starving the joint. Sound right?

Thanks again,

Seth

I'm working on an early 70s Guild Starfire bass. The neck has separated from the body, which doesn't seem like too big of a deal, but some questionable "work" was done to try and rectify the situation.

Looks like someone drilled a good 1/2" hole through the heel and crammed a dowel through the dovetail and into the body. To add insult to injury, they then screwed a large woodscrew through the dowel as well!

I've cleaned out the neck pocket, and am now wondering what the best way to reconstruct the dovetail is. Keep in mind I have little access to power tools, and not a huge amount of experience with this issue!

Thanks much,

Seth

Still working on that mahogany Firebird clone. I've applied a coat of waterbased grain filler and waterbased sanding sealer, sanded with dry #220, and seen plenty of pores. Okay, start again: Apply 2 coats of grain filler, really packing and scraping the heck out of it. I haven't yet sanded the grain filler, but I can still see pores. WHAT'S GOING ON HERE? Would oil-based be all that much better? Do I need to go nuclear with CA glue or epoxy?

Thanks,

Seth

I'm refinishing a mahogany Firebird clone. I applied grain filler (water-based, for the shorter curing time) and have applied one coat of sanding sealer. Hard to tell without having sanded yet, but on first glance I'm guessing I'm going to see some open pores under there. Can I apply more grain filler (maybe oil-based this time!) OVER the sanded sealer, or do I have to go all the way back to bare wood?

I realize that with only one coat of sealer there's not a huge difference, but I'd like to preserve as much of the work as possible....

Thanks much,

Seth

I'm currently prepping a '50s Magnatone for refinishing. As far as I know, the construction is alder and birch (top and back glued onto sides and blocks in-between.

My question is: At the edges of the top and back where they meet the sides, you can see the pores of the wood, and the texture is somewhat rough. Is this the kind of area you would treat by sanding, or are careful grain filling and numerous coats of sanding sealer going to do the work for me?

Thenk much,

Seth

I guarantee you wouldn't be able to match the finish. But all you would have to do is level the correct area then consistently sand the rest of the fingerboard until you take off the rest of the finish while being as careful as possible not to nick any other part of the neck. Also, it would be a great challenge to mask off just a small area to blend in with the rest of the fingerboard.

Start with 100 grit and measure frequently, there is no need to take off more than a very small amount of wood.

I believe you! In general, I actually prefer that there be some indication that a repair has been made (like a finish variation). In this case, well, the owner will just have to live with it. Thanks again for the support!

If it were me, I would measure the fingerboard all over with a straight and try and locate any odd spots. But then sanding it out will be the tricky part, because I'm not sure if this is a maple or rosewood fingerboard neck. If it's a maple fingerboard, you'll have to level the entire fingerboard and shoot new poly on it.

Yes, I was planning on taking measurements with the bass strung and unstrung, and see if there was anything else fishy going on. As far as I can tell on a quick first inspection, the area near the nut is the only problem spot. I was hoping I could sand the first 8 inches or so of the neck into something resembling levelness, but you think I'll have to go further, even if there are no other problem areas?

And yes, it's a maple neck. Given it's '70s vintage, I was going to do some area repair with tinted nitro lacquer and call it good.

Doing my first job on a fretless neck, and need some backup please!

It's a late '70s Fender maple P-bass neck. Essentially, the neck takes a VERY slight dive near the nut, so that there's some string buzz in first position, not too much by my standards.

The truss rod is at full looseness, and the string tension isn't pulling the kink out of the neck. Seems like the thing to do is to sand the kink out.

I'm thinking that all I need is a correct radius block, appropriate sandpaper (I think a planer would be overkill), straightedges and some elbow grease. My goal is to get as close to no relief as possible, given it's a fretless neck.

I feel pretty confident about the work involved, including the refinish afterwords, but I want to doublecheck I'm on the right track here. Any thoughts or advice would be MOST appreciated!