Guitarophile

Waterlox is my out of the can preference. Minwax is easier to get and does a very nice job. Honestly, Minwax does not exhibit the same properties as true varnish so I would caution thick applications. Tests I've done demonstrated it stays gummy for quite a while. One issue with the "tung oil" subject as a whole is that there are so many varieties.

-Doug

Wow, I just priced the Waterlox. Expensive!

Wow, that's a beauty, Doug!

+1!

Absolutely test it first!

If the dye doesn't take evenly it's an indication of something on the wood. Dye is meant to color the wood fibers. If the dye can't get to the fibers then it won't take. (ex. fake binding on PRS guitars) This is exacerbated if the surface is rubbed (like a wiping finish).

-Doug

I would--unfortunately, since it's a kit, it didn't come with scraps!

Mix dye with your oil should push it deeper into the wood pores. You could have fun with this one I think. Tung oil is a good medium for colors.

-Doug

Here's another option I've been considering: J.E. Moser's Mahogany Aniline Dye

This would be dissolved into the first coats of tung oil. Of course, it would bring me back to the uneven application problem I had on the edges with the Woodburst the first time around . . . and the question of how to ensure even application. MiKro mentioned denatured alcohol wash to blend it in.

I'm curious about the wet sanding part... Since tung oil (in general) is meant to soak into wood and not on it, what purpose does wet sanding serve? There should be nothing on top to sand. Since you mentioned Minwax, right on the can it says to let it soak for a few minutes then wipe dry(polish). The first wet coat soaks into the wood, and seals the pores once it hardens. Subsequent applications just give it some luster.

Tung oil has been a staple in my shop for the past 25 years. I've used it on everything from 7 foot grandfather clocks to guitars. It produces a wonderful natural finish. If applied evenly and wiped off after each application the final finish will be flawless. I usually follow-up the last coat with 0000 steel wool just for good measure.

I know other's have their ways, but I'm old school sometimes. Yes, I also have my own formulation. Nonetheless, drying oils basically work the same way.

-Doug

Doug, here's where I first read about the wet-sanding technique (I couldn't figure out how to post the file here, so here's a link. It's an article on finishing drum shells, but I was directed there in connection with guitar finishing. I've read other procedures that mention wet-sanding the final coats of wiping varnish, as well. I can't vouch for them, though, as I've never tried them.

First of all, it was nice to find a site to learn from... and enable myself to find info, and maybe a few friends. My Name is Buz, and I am currently deployed in Iraq with a Navy SF Team. I will be home in April, and have found that I want to build a guitar. I am unable to really do much out here, however, I have been doing a ton of about it. I have been keeping myself busy with some woodworking (right now i am carving a ring out of Purple Heart for my wife) but there is only so much one can learn without a mentor of some sort. I am still learning about music, and trying to learn to play the guitar.... let alone trying to figure out the parts of a guitar and what makes them tick. I am slowly starting to get it... a lil at a time. I am trying to figure out the difference between all the different types of electric guitars and what different parts (pickups/bridges/etc...) do. I am currently stationed in San Diego for the next couple of years, so if anyone is interested, I am an awesome student. I would love to learn all that I can from this site, and the experience here. Thank you for all your time... and help in advance. I hope to be at this for the rest of my years to come.

Very respectfully,

Buz

Welcome to the foray Buz,

First, thank you for serving our country. There are many here that are more than willing to help. So use the search function and ask away!

Mike

+1 on the welcome and the thanks--though I'm about 1,000 miles away from being able to offer anyone advice at this point.

well, first of all, if you grainfill first, you wont be able to stain it

Not entirely true. You can add the dye to the grainfiller, which is what Gibson did to the Cherry Red SG's. If you use water based grain filler you can use any type of dye, and it will take. If you use oil based grain filler you have to use a solvent based (laquer thinner, denatured alcohol) dye. You are dying the wood and the grain filler. I have to go back and look, but I think Gibson dyed the grainfiller, applied a sealer coat, applied a toner coat and then cleared. If you get the Finishing, Step by Step book that Stewart MacDonald sells, they have the recipe that Gibson used on the original SG's and V's. If it in not exact it is extremely close. But they do say, one of the keys to getting the color right is the dyed grain filler.

Thanks, this is very helpful. I will have to get that book (I'm getting quite a stack of them!) for when I graduate to sprayed-on finishes, which I'm planning to do on my next guitar.

My grain filler is water-based (it's ColorTone, like my cherry red dye), so I could dye it, no problem. But after that I'm going on to a soft-looking oil finish, rather than spraying anything. Do the other steps (sealer and toner) have any application to my tung-oiled project? I'm thinking that after the dyed filler, my next (and only) steps would be to rub in about 8-12 applications of wiping varnish over two weeks, wet-sanding the last ones. I admit to being clueless, though, so feel free to correct me.

I'm of the old school and don't use grain filler, but if you decide to use it, then I suggest a toner coat of color then your clear coats.Now that's just my way of doing things, since I use my toners and or clear coats to fill as well. This seems to me to give depth to the grain. Again as I said it's the way I am used to doing it and what works for me.

MK

Thanks, MiKro. It sounds like your method is simpler. How do you ensure that the stain covers evenly? I had a lot of problems last time with the Woodburst leaving clear spots on edges.

I've read some about using a much more concentrated version of the stain instead of grain filler, then sanding down to the field, as a way of making the grain darker and deeper-looking. I'm not sure how that differs from doing the same thing with a colored grain filler, as long as you sand back to the field of the wood.

well, first of all, if you grainfill first, you wont be able to stain it

OK, that's news to me, so I've learned something already. What should I do instead, to ensure that the stain absorbs evenly over the whole body? Dye the wiping varnish?

I built a kit guitar last year and have got the bug. (So I'm not a total newbie, but close enough.) I'm going to build another kit while I tool up my workshop and then try to move on to building from scratch. For this next kit guitar, I've got a mahogany body I'd like to stain slightly with cherry red, then finish it with low-gloss tung oil. My goal is the heritage-cherry satin finish Gibson is currently putting on some of its SGs and Vs. This finish has a soft look but still has a nice, deep-looking grain, even on mahogany.

Can anybody point out regrets I might have with the following plan, or offer any advice?

1. Sand, fill the grain with medium brown water-based grain filler. Sand to clear the wood field. I'm hoping this will both make the grain a little more pronounced and even out the color produced by the stain.

2. Stain with a fairly dilute mix of ColorTone cherry red dye dissolved in water. I really just want a hint of red to accent the mahogany.

3. Finish with 8-12 coats of Minwax tung oil (which I know is really wiping varnish), a day apart, wet sanding the last 4 coats with 800 grit sandpaper.

On my last kit, which had an alder body, I mixed green Woodburst stain with my tung oil and did not wetsand at all. I was only halfway pleased with the result--it was a little uneven, especially on the body edges. I really want a uniform color this time. My first idea was to dissolve a powdered dye in my tung oil, but I'm afraid that would turn out the same as the Woodburst.

Thanks for this incredibly helpful board.

I am not aware of any 'kit'.. A P90 is almost as large as a humbucker cavity. You'll have a hard time mouting it without a custom pickup ring to cover the 'ears' for the humbuckers mounting tab.

Check www.fretsonthenet.com

This guy makes custom pickup rings and stuff. Maybe he can build you custom rings. Just give him the dimensions. The only thing you will need to do is to drill new holes in the body for the ring, and 2 holes in the bottom of the cavity to mount the P90.

Thanks, I will try him if I can't find a way to do it myself.

Actually he will also have to rout for the p90 since the humbucker rout is smaller than the p90.

Yeah, I was prepared for the additional routing--the p-90 is narrower, but longer, than a humbucker. It's the underside mounting and the ring I'm thinking about. It's a completely different mounting system.

Buy a humbucker-sized P-90?

Not an option--I'm using Lindy Fralin's, which don't come in that size.

Does anybody know of a kit (or a posted set of step-by-step instructions) for mounting p-90s in a body routed for humbuckers? Thanks for any help.