~Maxx

In order for the tone function on the stacked pot to work independently it has to be removed from the rest of the signal chain. Since you basically have it hard-wired to the master jack it's going to function as a master tone knob. Depending on how you have it wired the push/pull pot could work as a kill switch - removing that circuit from the master chain (while leaving it intact for the independent jack). Does the tone knob in question still function as a master when the push/pull pot is pulled out? Any chance we could get a good shot of the wiring, or perhaps a diagram?

That's a very interesting concept, by the way. At least I've never seen anything like it before.

Thanks for your replies Ripthorn. Much appreciated! After reading your post and studying the diagrams a bit more I think I see what's going on. It was the A1 and A2 terminals that were confusing me. But I think I see now that they act as a jumper between the two sides. I'm still trying to work out exactly how to wire it up to get what I want, but I went ahead and ordered two of the switches. That should be able to get me the combinations I need. At least I hope so!

That's what I thought when I first stumbled upon it. But the way they have it wired in the diagram makes me think otherwise. Of course, maybe the way I would wire a 3-way is not correct or "by the book". It seems that I'm missing something somewhere...

Hello all. I'm getting ready to wire up a parts-caster, and was interested in using this switch to replace the 5-way and expand my pickup switching options. I always thought I was pretty decent with passive guitar wiring (though I am self-educated), but just can't seem to get a solid grasp on how these things work from the diagrams at Stewmac's website (PDF link for diagrams at bottom of "Instructions" tab). I'm sure that once I can get a meter on it I can figure it all out. But I'd hate to send off for one and find that it's useless to me.

I'm pretty much going for a Brian May type schematic on an H-S-S pickup configuration. I'm guessing I'll need two of these switches to accomplish both coil tapping and phase reversal across the board. Would anyone know if this is going to work for me? Or should I save my $60 and put it toward a crap-load of DPDT switches?

Thanks in advance for any advice!

In an active pickup installation your volume and tone potentiometers will be part of your preamp circuitry and should be specified in the documentation with the preamp and will probably be in the order of 25k to 50k. The preamp will match the usually low impedance of the active pickups to the output to the amp which is generally of a much higher impedance.

The output jack is usually setup so that when you insert a male jack plug it turns the preamp on and vice versa when removing the plug. Generally a stereo socket is used with a male mono plug which will complete the ground circuit on the battery power to the preamp.

Hope that helps?

Keith

Thanks Keith. That does help. Especially the part about the ratings of the pot's. Well... No, actually - it poses a problem. I want to have the option of bypassing the preamp and using the passive circuitry. I definitely can't use 25-50k pots in a standard Strat setup. Would it be detrimental if I were to use 250k pots with the preamp? Are the effects the same as using 500k pots on a Strat (actually 250k pots on a Les Paul would be a better comparison)?

I did notice after I posted that the jack was stereo. Once I realized that it all made perfect sense to me. I think I can get away with using my standard jack though (the shaft and nut are black to match my guitar and jack plate, so I'd rather leave it in place). The description of the kit says that the preamp will be active when the pot is pushed down, and bypassed when it's pulled up. I intend to reverse this function so that passive will be the normal position. This should do well enough to keep me from draining the battery, as I have a solid habit of flipping all my switches to "normal" before I put my guitar down. I do like the idea of the stereo jack though. It's a good fail-safe. Maybe I can track down a black stereo jack.

Hi folks. I'm setting up a partscaster with some Lace Sensors (neck & mid are Golds, bridge is Red/Gold dually) that I had lying around. I've never had active electronics before, and don't know much at all about them - but figured this might be a good occasion to try them out. I'm looking at the Neovin PRE-1 Active preamp from Guitar Fetish. I had intended for this guitar to have only two knobs (master vol & master tone), and I believe (based on the pic at the website) I can still accomplish this while using this preamp. There are some things I'm not sure of though. I'm debating weather I need the full kit, or just the preamp ($5 less - not that that makes much difference). I already have a 250k push/pull pot, and I'm using toggle switches instead of the 5-way. Is 250k alright for this setup? Or are 500k pots required? If I have to use 500k, what effect will that have on my sound when the active circuit is bypassed? Also - I see that the switching output jack in the full kit is rather large. There's no way that it will mount on the back of a standard recessed Strat jack plate without drilling out the cavity (which I'm not opposed to doing - but it's just more work that I'd rather avoid). The preamp alone, however, appears to come with a standard size jack that has the extra connection on it for the battery lead. Anyone know what the difference is (if any)? It looks like the lead from the battery is just a ground. Do you even need a special jack for this? Or can I just solder the black lead from the battery to the jacks sleeve lug?

Sorry for the rambling questions. I guess I just need some specifics on the components so I can decide weather I need the full kit or just the preamp assembly...

Thanks for any input anyone might have!

Hi folks. I've been researching pickups for months trying to figure out what to put in my Strat. I've been sold on the SD Lil '59 for the bridge from the get go. It's not the most diverse pickup out there, but having played one in a similar setup to my own I'm convinced that the tonal qualities - and moreover the response - are exactly what I'm looking to get out of this guitar. But what to pair it with in the neck and mid positions? I was thinking Texas Specials might be nice (they seem to be the go-to blues pickup these days), but having played them in a couple of different guitars I'm just not as in love with them as I am with the Lil 59. Or rather I don't think it's the combination I'm looking for. Plus the Texas Specials are only sold as a full set. I'd rather not buy a bridge pickup I'll never use.

I realize that I haven't provided much background into what I'm looking for tonally - and truth-be-told tone is only a small part of what I'm after, it's more an even physical response I'm after - but does anyone have any decent direction in this regard. I sort of feel like I don't really have a starting point. I like Seymour Duncans, but their descriptions and even the sound clips are next to useless in finding what I'm after. I need to play something (hardly possible at my tiny local shop), or get some wisdom from someone with experience.

Any input would be much appreciated. Thanks!

Hi Chris, I suppose you refer to the honky out-of-phase sound people sometimes get after installing a pickup whose polarity is unfriendly to the others. To my knowledge it goes like this : two single coils connected in series or in parallel, and having the same coil and magnet polarity with regard to each other, will sound in phase. The same goes when they have opposite coil polarity AND opposite magnetic polarity ("reverse wound, reverse polarity"). The other two combinations of coil and magnetic polarities result in a out-of-phase sound : that is, when there is only a difference in coil polarity, or only in magnetic polarity.

So if you have two identical single coil pickups, and modify one of them swapping the coil connections and flipping the magnet(s), combining them will sound the same as before. That's often done with a Strat's middle pickup. But why combining a pickup with a RWRP one, since it won't matter for the resulting sound : to cancel out hum that's radiated from external sources (like for example an CRT monitor) into the coils, when both pickups are on.

A simple explanation for the hum being cancelled while the string signals remain in phase, is that in the RWRP pickup, the string signal is "flipped twice" : once by the reversed coil, and once by the reversed magnet polarity, and like flipping a coin twice, the result is a null operation. The hum signal on the other hand is only affected by the reversed coil and not by the reversed magnet polarity, so it's "flipped once" and becomes opposite to the other pickup's hum signal, resulting in each other's cancellation.

A single Lace Sensor is constructed in a way that the coil is "protected" against hum radiation by what Lace calls a "radiant field barrier". Is that it's only protection against interference or might there be more? Dunno. When combining two of them, I think it's enough to know that each one performs good against hum individually, so extra measures like making one RWRP would seem a bit overdone.

Ahh... Just saw this lvs... Very good stuff! So basically I should be able to put two of these in series without any worry of phase or hum issues? It's just going to be a matter of weather or not I like the sound they produce. Like I said - I'll post my results. Thanks again!

A red Lace Sensor is normally installed at the bridge, but of course there's no law against your own preferences.

I think I'd be much interested to try red+gold as the "bridge dually" with the red one at the outside, and a SP on-off-on switch to select them separately or both in series. A SPDT could be used instead if both in series doesn't really sound like an asset. The extra pickguard hole for the switch could be avoided by replacing one of the tone controls with it. The remaining pickups and wiring would be like standard. So you end up with all stock tones possible from a SSS guitar, with the switch giving you an extra hot "superstrat" option. Just some ideas.

Hey lvs. Welcome to the discussion. Do you really think a red and gold dually would make a decent combo? I would have thought, given the output difference, that adding a gold in series with the red would be like tossing a pebble into the Grand Canyon. You'd hardly know it's there. I can see why the reds are generally installed in the bridge position. They sure are hot sob's. A dual gold setup on the bridge though would get me somewhere between 11 & 12, which I hoped would keep up with the red at 15. I tend to favor the middle pup anyway, and rarely use the lead by itself. My Harmony already has coil tapping and phase reversal across the board anyway, so in the long run experimentation would be a snap once everything's installed.

It was my understanding that the only magnet difference was that they're weaker. Companies use, correct me if I'm wrong, RWRP pickups not for their humcancelling characteristics when paired with a normal pickup, but for the fact two pickups in series when one's NOT RWRP sound pretty danged funky. So this isn't a magnet style, noiselessness issue from where I see it, it's a "will this sound right" issue. Furthermore, by definition humbuckers should have one RWRP coil since that's what provides the hum canceling properties. To my knowledge two normal pickups played in series and close together (physically) would not cancel hum since the electrical interference isn't canceled out by the reverse coil/magnet arrangement.

Although, I could be wrong, I'm not a huge electronics guy.

Chris

Good point about the sound vs hum canceling Chris. For some reason it never crossed my mind. I did some reading, and couldn't find anything "official" about rwrp on the Lace Sensors. There were several posts in the Fender forum, though, that indicated rwrp was not necessary for hum canceling with these as they are low output and sheilded. But I also found several references to a a Lace Sensor silver that was available rwrp, but no indication as to what it's purpose is. I couldn't find anything about the factory duallies consisting of an rwrp coil either. I did find a wiring schematic, but I don't think it really tells us anything we don't already know (though they do have a funky way of wiring these things up in my opinion). I also found a short, but informative review of the Lace Sensor line. A good quick read if your interested in understanding them a bit more. Again though, nothing about rwrp.

I guess I'm just going to have to try it out and see what happens! Not sure when I'll get around to it, but I'll post my findings when I get it all tested out. My thanks to all! And if anyone has anything else to add go ahead and jump on in. I'll be monitoring this thread.

Thanks for the reply Chris. I'm actually only looking to make one humbucker (for the bridge) - the mid and neck will be single coils. I dug out my meter and checked all four pups just to see what the output difference was between the red and gold, and to find out if the lead gold read any higher than the other two. The golds all read about 5.75K, but the red weighs in at a whopping 15K! As far as the RWRP situation I could swear I read years ago that since these were noiseless pickups there was no need for it. I've been shopping around for pickups quite a bit the last few months, and I've never seen a Lace Sensor advertised as RWRP. But I'm not willing to cast out your assumptions based on my own Chris. If anyone can clear this up for us I'm sure we'd both be appreciative

Setting aside the RWRP issue, I'm a bit worried now about the balance of output. I'm pretty excited to hear what this red can do, but how are these poor golds going to keep up? If I can get away with dual golds in series on the bridge, I suppose they'll do well enough with the red in the mid position. But what about neck pup? It seems like it would be terribly underpowered compared to the other two.

I'm not at all opposed to buying new pickups for this guitar, but I'm still in the process of dumping money into my Strat. The Harmony's always been a bit of a Frankenstein anyway. At one point, while I was refinishing the Fender, I did throw the Lace Sensors in the Harmony's mid and neck. I liked them for what I was playing at the time, but when I put them back in the Fender I decided that they weren't what I was looking for in a blues setup. So I pulled them out. I'm still experimenting, but right now I think I'm sold on the Texas Special in the mid, and I'm going to order a Lil 59 for the bridge. The neck has an SD Quarter Pounder right now, but I don't think I'm quite happy with it. Not sure where I'll go with that. Maybe another Texas Special?

Anyway - I have a few spare minutes, so I think I'll hit Google about these Lace Sensors. I'll post my findings (if any). Chris or anyone else - feel free to chime in with any wisdom you might have. Much appreciated!

Hi folks. I was wondering if i could draw on someone's experience and knowledge in dealing with these Lace Sensor pickups I have lying around. I have three golds which I pulled out of a late 80's Strat, and a red that I inherited with a box of random parts. I didn't like the golds in my Strat - which I've set up as a blues/rock instrument - so I thought I'd try them in my Harmony Strat copy, which I've always used for slightly "heavier" sounds (I'm not much into metal - but we'll say "heavier rock"). I've always had a humbucker in the bridge on this one though, and was wondering if I could make use of all four of these Lace Sensors somehow. From the reading I've done it sounds like the reds have more output than the golds, so I wasn't sure where to put it. If I wire two in series for the bridge I'm assuming I'd be best off using two of the golds. But then what? Red in the mid and gold on the neck? Or is this all just a silly idea?

I think what's got me stuck is that I don't really understand how the Lace Sensors work. If you have a set of three (ie. three golds), is one of them hotter and darker for the lead position? Or are they all exactly the same? I'm assuming that RWRP is a moot point with these since they're not actually coiled, correct?

I guess I just need a bit more info if anyone has it. Very much appreciated!

Mission accomplished! I inserted the bolts back into the old inserts and used a clawed hammer with a paper back book between the body and the hammer head. The book protected the finish and made sure that the hammer maintained an upward direction of force rather than pulling the bolt back toward itself. Easy peasy! Thanks again!

Wow. Thanks for the quick replies! So basically these things should pull straight out with some calculated effort. And the new inserts do not have to be glued in? Just tapped down flush? I think that's all I need to know. The rest of the measurements for new the trem are spot on with the old one. So I should be good to go - once I get the new inserts installed everything else should drop right into place. Thanks a million guys!

Hi folks. Just got the new tremolo for my Strat (standard two-point tremolo), and was wondering what to do about the new bolts. They're too big to thread into the existing holes. The kit came with new threaded sleeves (<--not sure what those are called?) which seem to have the same outer diameter as the current ones. But I'm not sure how to remove the old ones, or weather or not the new ones will need to be glued in somehow.

If anyone's able to follow what I'm getting at here I'd sure appreciate some advice. Thanks a bunch!

I've been meaning to order one of these for weeks, but haven't gotten around to it. I had come across a couple of threads on other sites where people had indicated that the wilkinson adapter was no longer included with the LSR kit. Not sure if this is true, but I'll need that adapter - so I'd like to make sure it's still included before I order. Anyone know for sure?

Thanks!

I got a thing for yellow

"My name is psw - and I'm a yellow-holic."

"Hi psw!"

I think I've convinced myself that it's just time to move on from these strings. I use a tapered string action so that the bass strings are higher than the others, and I angle my pickups weird too. This helps make up for the fact that the pickups are only responding to the core of the bass strings. But setting up my guitar is a real pain. I'm sort of looking forward to not having to deal with it anymore. The wound G I use is a 20 gauge, which is quite light for a wound G. I've gotten used to working for the bends on it, but it is the string that breaks most often.

The LSR's do indeed come in black. However, during my Google searches for info, I did come across one blurb from a user who had ordered the LSR and did not receive the adapter. Upon contacting the seller and Fender as well he was apparently informed that the adapters were no longer available even though they are pictured with the nut on Fenders website. I neglected to note the date of this post, but it's the only info of that nature I've seen so far. Hopefully a misunderstanding and an isolated incident.

After doing a bit of reading I've gotten curious about the nickel strings. Especially the Eric Johnson signature set from GHS. They are gauged 10, 13, 18, 26, 38, & 50. Not a far cry from what I use now (10, 14, 20(w), 28, 40, & 50). My local shop doesn't carry them though, so I think I'm going to start off with a set of Dean Markley NickelSteels with my next string change. They come in both 10-46 and 10-52 gauges. They're both a 17g G though (I was really shooting for that 18g, but...), so I can see myself snapping a few of them while I get used to the lighter gauge.

Anyway... It turns out that I'm going to have to wait a couple of weeks before I order my nut, bridge, and tuners. Apparently Mothers Day is coming up, and I nearly forgot that my wife needs a nice gift from our baby girl. First time parent - I'm still getting used to these things! I'll definitely post some pics for my fellow blackaholics when I get the new hardware on and settle on some new strings!

As far as the black goes - it's just what I do. I'm not metal or goth or emo or anything like that. More a blues/rock n roll player. In my bachelor days I started wearing black clothes so I wouldn't have to sort my laundry. Then I bought black furniture so it would match the walls and carpet no matter where I lived. Things just sort of snowballed from there, and before long I had an unhealthy obsession. It was a real stretch for me to go with the black pearloid pick guard. And I'm still not sure weather or not I like it. But I'm waiting to see the finished product before I decide.

i kinda under stand that i have a bad problem with over doing the black also. some times i have to force my self to go another direction.

Heh... Maybe we should start a support group.

The rollers are indeed individual. At least the top ones are (closest to the tuners). Not sure about the fretboard side.

I'm finding myself back on the fence about this thing now. I canceled my order for the replacement nut until I figure out for sure what I want to do. I'm thinking now that it may just be better to switch to some different strings and upgrade to the LSR nut, which comes in black, and apparently works fine with 10g strings (despite what I've read on "official" sites). Less hassle, but I'd have to find some strings I like. That could be a difficult task. I've grown very accustomed to my 20g wound G string. I haven't researched yet, but if anyone has any suggestions for bronze-wound electric strings I'd be all ears...

For the curious - here's what I'm working on...

This guitar was completely torn apart and stripped down when I got it, so I wasn't entirely sure what it was until fairly recently. From what I've read it's an '87 or early '88 Strat Plus. It had the TBX tone control, gold Lace Sensors, and micro-tilt neck. All of which have been removed per my own preference. It also has a "Tremsetter"-like device in the back cavity which is marked with the "Rockinger" brand name. I've yet to research this, but I've never seen one like it, and haven't decided weather or not to keep it. The body and neck have been stained, but I'm waiting on the Tung oil until I finish switching out the hardware.

As far as the black goes - it's just what I do. I'm not metal or goth or emo or anything like that. More a blues/rock n roll player. In my bachelor days I started wearing black clothes so I wouldn't have to sort my laundry. Then I bought black furniture so it would match the walls and carpet no matter where I lived. Things just sort of snowballed from there, and before long I had an unhealthy obsession. It was a real stretch for me to go with the black pearloid pick guard. And I'm still not sure weather or not I like it. But I'm waiting to see the finished product before I decide.

Anyhow... Sorry to have gone on so much. I really appreciate and welcome the wisdom and criticism you folks have offered. Feel free to chime in with more if you like!

PS - forgot to mention... I'll be changing out the bridge and tuners on the above axe. It might also be worth mentioning that the toggle switches that are currently in place of the tone knobs are temporary while I audition tone capacitors.

You can put black vinyl in the top area leaving the sides with the original colour. You can test and if you don´t like it, simply remove the vinyl.

I thought about elec. tape or some heat shrink tubing. But I'm pretty sure that stuff won't stay put well enough given the finish of the nut.

If it is able to be disassembled and it is aluminum, it can be anodized black.

It doesn't seem to come apart (without a hammer anyway )

I would protect the slots/rollers and go ahead and paint it.

Just make sure the slots and all moving parts are protected from paint and you should be fine. Perhaps just run some toothpicks into the slots.

I think painting might be the best bet. Would anyone recommend a certain type or brand for this application? Or is my best bet to just go to the hardware store and pick out something that says it sticks to metal?

Powdercoating...

At one point someone posted a link to a powdercoating kit and I bookmarked it,but I lost that computer since then...

There are places you can send your parts to for powdercoating.

http://www.ihdpowdercoat.com/Services.aspx

Just a guess here, but wouldn't that present problems with the rollers freezing up as well?

Thanks so much for all your replies.

Silver strings, silver frets : It'll blend in well enough with some essential parts of your guitar.

True enough. But still... It would seem like such a shame to have mostly black hardware as opposed to all black.

I just ordered a replacement roller nut for my Strat. It's the pre-LSR Fender/Wilkinson roller...

Trouble is these didn't seem to come in black. It's fairly important, however, that this match the rest of my guitar. So I'm wondering how some of you might suggest I go about refinishing it. Is there some particular spray paint that would work acceptably (or better than others)? Or would spray paint tend to bind up the rollers and ruin the nut? I got the brushed finish, by the way, not the stainless.

I thought long and hard about upgrading to the LSR, but decided against it in the end. (See my previous thread here for more on that subject.)

Thanks in advance for any advice!

Is there any reason other than the color change that you are ditching the Sperzels? I've used the Wilkinson EZ-Lok and don't have much to say good about them. They do not truly lock down the strings and I find are more of a pain to string up. I would rather go with non-locking tuners instead of the Wilkson's again.

I noticed that PSW mentioned looking into a locking nut, but remember you need to be able to fine tune the strings after they are locked down. So you need a bridge with micro tuners on them, which Strat style Trems don't.

The EZ Locks were on a parts guitar I bought off a friend a few years ago. I've never actually used them before, but figured since I had them lying around I might as well put them to use. It just hit me today, though, that I'm going to have to run the screw holes for these, and I don't think they'll cover the holes from the Sperzels. So I think I'm going to go ahead and order new black Sperzels for it.

I won't be using a locking nut. I really thought about switching to a Floyd, but decided that I didn't want to mess with the mod. I just hope I can get away with painting this Wilk/Fender nut. If that doesn't work I'm just going to take it in and have a graphite nut cut for it. I started this guitar several years ago, and am determined to get it done this summer!

I appreciate the input about the tuners.

I can't believe it! I actually found one for sale! I really didn't think you could buy these any more...

Fender/Wilkinson Roller Nut

why do you favour that set, do you tune low? Do you combine these with locking tuners and all?

I'm generally tuned standard (though I prefer a half step down when I can get away with it) - and, yes, I have the Sperzel locking tuners at the moment. Though I have a set of staggered "EZ Lock" tuners which I'm going to replace them with. My strings are Ernie Ball Earthwoods. These days they're sold strictly as acoustic strings, but when I first started buying them (in the early or mid 1990's) they were labled as "acoustic/electric" strings. I picked them up on a whim just to try something new, and found that I really liked them. I play a lot of blues oriented stuff, and when doing rhythmic things in the open A position I like that you don't have such an overly "bright" difference between the open A string and the octave on the G. At the same time the G is still light enough that it can be bent fairly easily when playing leads. I find it a bit more diverse in the sense that there's quite a noticeable tonal difference between bending a note on the wound G and bending the same note on the B.

For prototyping such things I thought of using string ball ends as the rollers...use some piano wire as the axle through them all...as the headstock on say my LP is splayed out, I considered another set to pull straight across the nut, then feed to the side to each tuner, doubling as a string tree/dampener.

Pardon me for saying so, but that just sounds like a darned interesting idea!

Here's a pic of the LSR on my blueteleful telecaster project...

Thanks for rubbing it in! Just kidding... I really dig the look of them though. Nice clean picture too! I wish my camera could do that (though it could be an operator error). I never can get them clear for some reason. Thanks for sharing!

Realistically, if the rollers work well with a wound D string (as it does) I don't really see a problem with a wound G...but it really doesn't seem to be designed for that. as I say, 10-42 seems to be ideal which happens to be the set I use.

You could be right. They may indeed work just fine. I have my doubts though. My strings are 10-50 (10, 14, 20, 28, 40, 50 respectively), and I always have to struggle to get the low E and A in the slot of my current nut. The strings may fit, but they may also be tight enough to bind up the rollers rendering them ineffective.

For now, at least, I'm going to heed your wisdom and stick with what I have. Maybe someday I can find a true black replacement of the same design and attempt a better mod. Or perhaps I'll decide that these strings just aren't worth the hassle anymore!

Thanks again!

Again - thank you psw. I've attached a pic of the "Wilkinson" (?) nut. This is identical to the one I have in my tool box. It's a pretty simple design, and it would certainly accommodate my strings as far as I can tell (though it is a bit taller, so I'd have to shave down the end of the neck a bit). After examining it more closely I've noticed that the grooves in mine are the same width for each string. So while my G would sit nicely, the B and high E seem to slide around inside the groove (add that to the movement of the loose roller - ugh). The more I look at it the more I have trouble believing that anyone could expect this to work on any guitar. Unless, as I said, I've gotten a hold of a lemon. I see these things all over the net, in fact - so someone must be buying them.

Anyway... I appreciate your thoughts psw. I'm thinking I might just end up spray painting it for now so it doesn't stick out amongst the new hardware. I have a feeling I'm going to end up going with a more traditional graphite or graphtech nut.