Stew

Cool, thanks.

After about 4 guitar bodies, the paint from every project starts to build up on the paint stick. So I have to sand blast the paint stick every so often.

I guess they call them paint sticks. Is there a supplier who sells these? It's the long metal shafted handles that are welded to a plate, which is then wood screwed into the neck cavity of a guitar body. I made one out of metal plumbing pipe and joist plate, screwed the two together and used the joist holes to mount my wood screws to the body. I also drilled a hole at the top of the pipe so that I can hang the painted body from the rafters in my garage by a metal hanger. Mine is such a pain to clean and the ones that I've seen at the Custom Shop look like pipes welded to a 1/4" plate. But their paint sticks are much lighter. Look in any magazine or website that shows the hazmat suited guys finishing guitars with the spray gun. They turn the body using this attachment handle. I guess I could keep mine but I'm just wondering if some supplier sells something that's a little less Neandertholl looking than mine.

Tape and scrape. I usually have to level, dress and crown my frets anyway, so I might as well wait until after the neck gets sprayed.

Thanks Drak, Yeah, I think the Texas hots would sound nice in a swamp ash body with maple neck. What about the Lace Chrome Domes? Usually the Lace products are a little on the bright side and might be just what this guy needs to overcome that massive dark mahogany tone. Like you said, there are so many variables and combinations. It seems to me that the maple cap on a Les Paul mahogany guitar seems to help brighten the tone a tad. But I also have a '80 Gibson Flying V that's solid mahogany with humbuckers. But I notice more bottom end than darker tone. For some reason I was thinking that the Antiquity I pickups would be fashioned after 50's Strat pickups which usually are brighter than say the Antiquity II set, which are more like a mid 60's darker tone. The I's must be wound hot enough to mud up the mahogany's dark tone.

I usually match my pickups to compliment the wood selection. If I have a maple neck for example, I'll go with some slightly darker pickups to balance out the tone. If I'm say using a rosewood fingerboard over a maple neck, I can get away with some brighter pickups. This is both using an alder body. But if I want some spank to the tone, I'll use bright'ish pickups witha swamp ash body and solid maple neck. If too bright, I may mess with the capacitor values. Now, mahogany. Usually I think of PAF humbuckers with I think of mahogany. But this will be with a Strat configuration. Strat pickups for the most are brighter than humbuckers as well as a lack of midrange....on the average. I've got a solid mahogany guitar that a friend had me look at. The tone sucks. It sounds like a Strat but it lacks the sparkle, loss of bottom end, very flat sounding, in all positions. But when I hit distortion (which has it's own eq, gain, and level), it sounds every bit as good as a PAF humbucker bridge pickup (in the bridge position). Is this due to the nature of mahogany? Pickups are Seymour Duncan Texas hot pickups. Maybe if I drop the pickup height more, there might be a breathing issue with the string/pickup magnetic pull. But just blaaaah. Any suggestions on what I might miss considering? Just totally uninspiring tone.

Now that I look a little closer, it does look straight. I guess the photo angle make the heel section look like it slightly curves into the lines on the body, the purpleheart line. I can tell at the nut it's straight. What a cool effect.

The guys at the Fender Custom Shop thought I should place bullet holes in the body. Thinking about that suggestion now, I'm wondering if that comment was for added effect for the guitar, or because of their distaste for Cops? Phil, how did you get such perfect lines on that neck glue? I would think you would have had to scroll saw the different woods simultaneously? I mean straight lines are one thing but curved? Wow!

My Police guitar only plays well near Donut shops. I had a feeling my guitar would provide mixed feelings from the beginning. You know, musicians often have had their share of run-ons with "the man". Luckily when I jammed with this Police band, you didn't have to turn down...because the Police was already there. Very unfair advantage. Phil's got it. Can't compete with superior design and wood working skills. Lots of time went into that one I'll bet. Except, I can't see how the hell you bass players play on those 6 string bass necks. Don't you need 6 inch fingers? Nice work to everyone. -Stew

What if you built a reproduction Fender Strat, called it a replica, used the Fender decals on a Fender licensed neck and body, kept all the tell tale signs that it clearly was not a Fender production guitar (i.e. All Parts, WD Music, Warmoth burn in stamp), played it for a few years, got tired of it, then sold it. Are you still liable? I've built many vintage reproduction Strats, the Fender Custom Shop knows about this because they've joked around with me on this issue (making fun of me by quoting posts from the Fender Discussion Pages on my work). Not once did Mike Eldred ever pull me aside and tell me to beware. I have been warned to watch my back by Vince Cunetto. When the SRV #1 tribute Strat came out last year at the NAMM show, Eldred approached me and said, "Now, don't you start making these". That was my only real warning. Either he thinks I'm too small potatoes or I'm going about the process correctly. Since I've become friends with the Custom Shop staff, I no longer build these replicas out of respect more than anything. They've showed me all of their distressing techniques and I don't want the guys thinking that I used them just to better my replicas. Truth is, I like my distressing techniques better. I've showed them a Custom Shop Strat that I reliced. But I think that was legit since it was a CS production guitar and not something I made. What's in the back of my mind is the ones that I've sold, will they ever be resold as actual vintage Fenders? Then am I held liable at that point?

I'm having a hard time trying to figure out how to price my guitars. All I really have as a measuring tool is what I've sold on ebay. I'm a no-name builder with a no-name logo. So I'm not easily recognizable......for now. I have built about 12 guitars. My guitars are getting increasingly more intricate and time consuming because of my attention to detail. I'm very **** and want everything perfect. After 5 years of building, I'm starting to get attention for my work. I'm currently trying to build up a surplus of guitars to demostrate, display, and try out. I've sold about 5 guitars under my name, and each have sold around $1400 each. I finish all by hand and by myself in my shop. Some of my work is equivelant to stuff that's selling for over $4000. Two people have offered $10,000 for a few of my guitars. But being a guitar player myself, I think that's insane to pay for a piece of wood with chunks of metal. So I have a problem with high prices only because I think they are ridiculous. But what constitutes a higher price? More hands on detail or a legendary name? Much of my graphics or designs are all by hand as well as hours of hand sanding, wetsanding, masking, scrapping wiring, drilling, grinding, assembling, etc . I have a company who is cutting my wood for me for now since I don't have any routing tools and this guy does rough cut by CNC, I do the rest as far as shaping contours, rounding edges, stuff like that. I like that because the neck pocket, bridge routes and pickups have to be dead on accurate. I don't have time to make goof up mistakes and have something that looks good but plays like crap. I'm doing all fret work as well. So now that you know I do a lot of hands on with the exception of necks and bodies, how do I figure a price? So far, I've been making a list of all material costs, figuring my hourly labor rate, and logging how much time involved in the entire project. Some guitars require only about 40 hours while others can take up to 4 months to build. My biggest costs seems to be tuners, bridges and pickups. If I'm using exotic woods for neck and body, then that can significanly go up to where total parts are at $900, that's no finish, no time involved, and no final assembly. And I still have not ordered cases for them, which I've had some problems with since I don't build enough to order in bulk. G&G have quoted me less than $100 per hardshell case, and that's with only black plush lining, no colors, and only black tolex. Plus I want better than decent cases. My last guitar project sold for over $1200, I should have sold for at least $2000 to cover the Ameritage custom $375 hardshell case and to make a profit. But then again, this is ebay for you. Flamed Koa with custom green poodle lining Ameritage case What's a good finacial template to use? Am I off track in my calculation method? Have I left anything out? I'm thinking anywhere between $2000 - $4000. I'm looking for positive feedback. Not interested in the "you'll never be able to do it" comments. I'm not looking to get rich from this, just trying to get enough profit to finance bigger and better builds, pay for a website, maybe hire on some additional luthiers to increase surplus.

What I recommend is that you can sell the guitar but be up front about it. That's what I did. I had no friends who either needed a guitar or had the cash to buy a new one. So what do I do now, sell my guitars on the Pennysaver? Yeah right, nobody would have ever called me (no pics, not a familiar name). So I didn't sell my first guitars until I was totally convinced it was playable, and I mean well playable, not in the general sense. If I didn't think the guitar was worth selling, I sold off the parts. Also I disclose that I'm selling as is, no mods, no pickup swaps. And I list everything that is wrong, if any. You know, finish crack at the neck pocket, small 3 mm ding on lower horn. At least you'll get some money back to finance your next project. I've rolled over my money at least 10 times doing this, no profit. If I made a profit, I would maybe buy an upgrade in pickups for my next project. I think ebay is a good place to hobby your work. Beware, you'll want to keep everything you make at first. I won't get rid of a guitar until I've played it live first (live being worship band at church. We're very alternative rock sounding so I can get away with using distortion at times). Then the novalty wears off and I'm onto the next project. It's funny, people at church think I have this huge guitar collection. They have no idea that I just keep making more. I was happy with the hobby thing for about 5 years and now I'm ready to make some money at it. I'm not banking on making money but it can't hurt to try. At least to make some extra money for buying more tools. I don't know what my wife would hate more, guitar gear or tool gear.

Yeah, it's a neon light sign with the words "No exit" written on it. ← Or a train.

BRAVO, DAVID! (standing up). Finally someone who believes in the half full rather than half empty glass mentality. Excellent advice.

I was referring to Perry's comments. Drak, you were more conservative. It just seemed like instead of giving out some advice, Perry instantly did a "OMG, not another idiot putting the cart before the horse" assuming Byron was just another one of those people who dream too big for reality. Sometimes I'm not aware about something and ask on such a forum. If I was greated with a "hey, we've got another one" response, I'd be pretty frustrated. It's like that customer service rule, eventhough you've been asked for the 100th time, "where's the bathrooms", you have to answer as if it's the first time you've been asked. I owe so much to what I'm doing now with guitars because of all the advice that I've received. But I've received that advice in a manner that was patient. Maybe you've heard this "selling guitars on ebay for the first time, first time builder" lots of times, but this guy possibly might not have figured out all the pitfalls in his idea. Anyway, off that soap box. I think this may have been a misunderstanding on both Bryon and my part. But reading the responses that Perry made, I would have been discouraged too at first. About the cabinet making/furniture building, Perry you made it sound like you were more credible because of your 12 years of woodworking experience. Like it meant more than someone who did not have that experience before building guitars. Maybe I'm reading these threads backwards? Drak, I was not really pointing fingers at you. Thanks for your kind comments about what I do. And Perry, I understand now what you were referring to. I was voicing what Byron was probably expressing based on his responses to you. Byron, hey, we're all just trying to help you and excuse us if this is the 100th time we've heard this question before. Nothing personal, just that we'd hate for you to waste so much valuable time and effort if you started pedalling backwards. Take all the advice you can, digest it, and take it into consideration.

These comments bug me. Who are you two to say that everybody has to pay their dues YOUR way? So you're saying that in order for me to correctly build a high quality guitar I must go back to the "wax on, wax off" (Karate Kid training reference) stage? I have never built furniture or cabinets, does that make me some idiot who's chasing some pipe dream? I've built 12 guitars now and now your telling me I need to go back in order to be legit? Ok so that was my initial reaction. It's just that those comments sounded kind of builder snobbish. My total appology if I was wrong in that assumption. Let me try to be a leison betweem Byron and Drak/Perry: Byron, I think what Drak and Perry were trying to tell you, is make the painting first before you decide where to hang it. See if it's decent enough and spot on to be considered the level of selling. If I had screwed up on my first two, and I did, you may either go back and start over or use for firewood (unfinished of course). Like Drak, I'm mostly build for therapy. There is nothing like using your hands to create something that you love. I've been a guitar player for 25 years and I had never dreamed of building my own guitar before. I'll never buy a guitar from a music store ever again. Why would I when I can make anything I want? I'm taking this the same way Bryon is.....well..at least initially. I took this as discouraging info. I'm sure glad I never visited this site when I was first starting out. But now that I've built a few, I can sort of see where Drak and Perry are coming from. Dream that dream from afar, but dream it hard after you've completed some guitars on a consistent level. You may get lucky on your first, and you may get unlucky on your 5th. Ebay might be a place to check if there is a demand for your style of guitars. Even though I didn't sell the guitar all the time, I did get lots of email expressing interest. That's when you know you might be onto something. Byron, I'm assuming this is your first guitar project? I don't think I was clear about that and I think is the assumption from everybody. After the first two, I was hooked. I have now built about 12 guitars and thanks to a certain Fender Masterbuilder, I got the thumbs up on every one of them. He's helped me with fret work, set up tips, finishing skills, what to keep an eye on, how scale has an affect, different woods and how they react in relation, building templates, what to look for in particular tools, what to stay away from, what not to try, what finishes are not compatible, how to make invisible repairs if you ding or sand through while finishing. I sucked at wood shop in high school, but for some reason, building guitars is easy for me. I took to it right away. I'm very **** and detail addicted. This month's GOTM was the first time I choose my own wood, cut and glued up. That went well. Now I want to get more complex. Realistically I doubt I'd make an exclusive career at this. I may suppliment my income as a side small business. But I don't see but a small handfull of builders getting rich off making guitars. You go ByronBlack, build your two guitars because if this is your first guitar, you'll be sure to build plenty more after. Each guitar I sell just pays for the parts for my next guitar. Don't expect to be an overnight success, and don't plan on being the next PRS. Just build to the standard that you'd want in a guitar. Get educated, get the right tools, and have plenty of scrap wood around to test first before doing the real thing. That goes for finishing as well. Recap: 1. build a guitar 2. see #1 3. try to sell on ebay, use cost as reserve, see if you get interest 4. if sold, tell owner to leave feedback on Harmony Central 5. see #1 6. see #1 7. see #3 8. see #4 If you have generated some interest by now, meaning more than 12 emails that ask, "what else have you got"?, THEN start thinking about a business. And even then don't expect too much. It's a very saturated market. (Ok, now I expect to be rained on by the fury)

I guess I did sort of imply that. What I meant was that I did the whole assembly, setup, fret work if any needed, and all distressing. That work was being lost because all people were looking at, in their minds, was a Fender guitar. It's the same is if you took your Fender guitar is for work at a local shop. When you go to play that guitar, people aren't thinking, "Wow, I'll bet luthier Tom set that guitar up. What great tone and sustain". They're saying, "What a great sounding Strat". If I ever made more, I'd leave the pegface blank, and not for sale.

Im pretty sure he was taking new strats and making them look vintage. ← I used 90-95% authentic Fender parts. There may have been an All Parts body with a real Fender neck or Fender body with a WD Music neck. But I never removed any part details like say say the imprints used by All Parts neck or WD Music. All evidence was never hidden. Most of the necks were Genuine Fender Replacement Parts necks and I left the Fender imprint on the back of the headstocks. So there were obvious signs it was not the real deal. Only from stage distance did it look like it could be a real vintage Fender. But to get those higher thousand dollar prices, I had to use Custom Shop pickups like Abby Masterwounds, Time Machine '56 pickups (that I won on ebay), to warrant those prices. If I used Custom 54's or Fat 50's then my usual bid would rot around $850. So I was not loading the guitars with MIM pickups or AV '62 stuff.

NO. I'm actually using Fender parts. In some cases, I totally refinished Fender parts and then refinished to look old. I always was up front about the fact that they were not actual vintage guitars. Always used the words "replica" in my auctions. The guys at the Custom Shop seemed cool with it. When the SRV #1 tribute Strat came out at Winter NAMM '04, Mike Eldred said to me, "(laughs) you better not make any of these". I sensed there was a little truth to that comment. So I took the hint and stopped. Besides, I realized that all that hard work would just be mistaken as a Fender guitar and not my work. Why should they get all the credit, right?

I used to....now I don't. I started out about 5 years ago building Relic repros. I was not out to get Custom Shop prices, just a way to offer cheaper versions while still getting the vibe. For those of you who hate Relics, please scroll past images. The problem I had was that I was not very familiar with ebay at the time. So I didn't know about reserves and buy it now options very well. I sold my first 3 guitars all at the same time instead of testing the waters. Each guitar sold for about $450, each cost me about $600 to make. So, I started using top manufacturer parts (Fender parts for my Fender reproductions). Now I'm getting $1200 for each guitar when it's now costing me about $700 to make. My last repro sold for $1500. I've become friends with the Fender Custom Shop and now choose not to make anymore repros. So I started making my own guitars. They still have vintage shapes but I have my own name on them now. It's tough trying to get my name out when there are so many major guitar companies to compete with. But my last three guitars I've sold, I encouraged the owners to write a review in Harmony Central. This has really helped. So my last three guitars that I've built have sold between $1200-$1500. Now I have a few guitars around the US and Guam. I also include a custom guitar t-shirt with each guitar to help further spread the word around. I would not totally discourage ebay. Try it out. Make sure you list a reserve for the lowest you would accept (reasonable, which can be tricky). Use the "Buy It Now" option as well. That might attract someone who wants it right away. I always got emails asking me to end early because they wanted the guitar so bad. Don't expect too much and make sure you list with Fender, Gibson, Jackson, Custom Shop so that you show up on the keyword search on ebay. That way you won't be a needle in a hay stack. - Stew

Thanks but I don't hear no fat lady singing yet.

Thank you for fixing for me.

original photos work fine...

Some of you may have already seen this guitar. I built this for a friend of mine who is a police officer. He's in a Police top 40 band, CUBO (means "Conduct Un Becoming an Officer"). My Police guitar ("Peace Keeper"). I got the idea from the guitar strap in a local Guitar Center. I bought the strap, then built the guitar. This was finished entirely with Krylon acrylic paint (never again). Previously to this state, I had to strip back down to bare wood 2 times. Like I always say, the trick is in the wetsanding and that's why this finish looks so wet and reflective. Decals were applied then cleared over until edges were no longer visable. Right after wetsanding and polish, pre assembly I made the decals using Printmaster 12 software. I used water slide decal inkjet paper from SuperCal-USA through Micro Format Inc. Super Cal-USA website (3803 is the squad number, like the one that's located on the top roof of a squad car) Features: Body: - Very lightweight Alder body, custom routed for me by Gregg Rogers Guitars. - T.O.B. hardtail config. - Black hardware including Schaller strap locks and Schaller mini locking tuners - All decals done on Printmaster, metallic gold around "City of Justice" seal does not show too well. Pegface shot may show a better idea of gold metallic on logo. Neck: - Warmoth Contruction neck - Eric Clapton V profile on the maple neck with ebony fingerboard. I could have saved myself the trouble and bought one of those Allparts Graphite necks instead of finishing this neck. - Graphtec nut. -Stainless steel frets which I'm not too sure I'm that happy with them. At least my frets won't wear as fast. "Billy Club" nightstick neck. - Lace Sensor Hot Golds pickups (6.5k neck, 13k bridge). Sounds like a Tele on steroids. Overall sound is a bit bright but I think that may be due to the ebony fingerboard and stainless frets. Here's some close up neck pics. Pegface with metallic gold logo (3803 is the squad car #) - Stew

Frank: Thanks for the nice compliments. You nailed it. Without an explaination of what my concept is, the guitar sort of looks like a fancy "butcher's block" guitar.