Dino

With all due respect, I only commented on this thread to try to help.

Everything I've stated is based on my own personal experience, and is not "based on supposition" or made up scenerios.

For those interested, I have photos to support my comments but I'm not here to "prove" anything and I certainly have nothing to gain by sharing my experiences.

If painting guitars with spraycans works for you, then great!

Posted by aidlook: After reading that "other thread" dino, and now this one as well...My question is, did you refund all those paintjobs you did with rattlecans for other people and charged them for ....Now that you know how unbelievably crappy it is.

A typical rattlecan paintjob would take me roughly 6-8 months to do.

Most of those paintjobs were my own personal projects, but for those that weren't, I would wait a full year for the paint to cure before making it available for sale because I was always concerned about it getting damaged in shipping. So at that pace, you can probably figure out on your own exactly how many Krylon paintjobs (or guitars) were actually sold ... not many.

I've had no complaints from anybody I've done work for so far.

I've always been honest about the paint I use, good or bad, but if someone purchased a guitar or paintjob that I did with Krylon and would like a full refund, please contact me and I will arrange it.

I'm not sure why you feel the need to personally attack me or my business aidlook, but I hope I answered your question.

number of coats is not how you compare...thickness of finish is...

I'm confused ...

Wouldn't the thickness of the finish all depend on the number of coats used?

my point is this...5 mm of finish is 5 mm of finish...the reason you need 30 coats of spraycan to equal 10 to 15(not 2) coats of the good stuff is that the coats of the good stuff go on much thicker...but you end with the same film thickness...maybe if you don't seal the wood first then there will be a big difference,because the thinspraycanneverreallycures kind of paint will sink alot longer and further into the grain...

I disagree ...

The "good stuff" is no thicker than Krylon. In fact, I believe it's just the opposite.

You have much more control over the amount of paint that comes out of a spraygun as opposed to a rattlecan and the reason you don't need to use 30+ coats of clearcoat is because the finishing process is a little different. With Krylon, the wetsanding process begins with a much lower grit sandpaper (600grit maybe?) and then gradually work your way to 1200, 1500, or 2000 grit before compounding and buffing. That process alone requires you have much more clearcoat. With the "good stuff", you begin the wetsanding process with 1200 or 1500 grit, therefore it doesn't require as much clearcoat to protect you from sanding through the finish.

A Krylon finish, if done "by the book", needs to be much thicker because of the process used to finish it in order to achieve the so-called "factory finish". That's not to say someone can't pile on just as much acrylic urethane if they wanted to, but I really don't see the advantage to doing that.

Yeah.... if you have the stuff, then it's worth painting the guitar 'right.'

But when I was younger, and had no money, I spray painted a few guitars and they worked and sounded fine for me.

I did them in flat black,and by not using 5,000,000 coats of clear on it, it still sounded pretty good and cured in

a reasonable time frame; while holding up to some abuse.

If you have the money, fine, buy the equipment or pay someone else to paint it. But if not, then don't be afraid to

throw down something simple in the meantime, and learn from it, while you save for the better equipment. My $0.02.

Absolutely.

Spraypaint can be made to work.

So can magic markers and crayons.

Just be realistic in your expectations and don't expect a "factory finish".

dino man..i hope you have developed more ability to handle criticism since that first topic...

Thanks again for posting that link marksound.

My apologies to all involved with that embarrassing thread.

Not to mention how all those coats of spraypaint will effect the sound of your instrument.

i would not even take that into consideration...i used to worry about that...but several guitars later both bought and built,i realize that the difference is so small between finishes that it isn't even worth mentioning...

I thought the same thing for the longest time.

I was wrong.

When using rattlecans (especially on multi-color paint schemes such as stripes, camo, etc..), ALOT of coats of clearcoat are required in order to level out the different levels of paint and to provide enough substance in order to complete the wetsanding.compounding and buffing process.

It's an unbelievable amount of paint.

I never realized just how much the paint affected the sound until I took one of those spraypainted guitars, stripped it, and repainted it with acrylic urethane.

Though the graphics on the guitar were painted exactly the same, the amount of acrylic urethane I needed to use was a considerably less amount.

For example, approximately 30 coats of clearcoat was needed to level out and wetsand those striped guitars painted with Krylon.

When clearcoating the same guitar using acrylic urethane, only two coats were needed.

I'm no "tone freak", but the difference in 30 coats of Krylon versus 2 coats of acrylic urethane is very noticable to my ears.

Not trying to start trouble, but in the interest of full disclosure could you explain what happened to change your mind about Krylon? Click here

Thanks Mark.

That's a perfect testimonial to show that I've "been there, done that".

No offense to anyone doing rattlecan paintjobs, but most who use spraypaint to paint guitars are beginners who are enticed by the ebooks and the thought of producing a "factory finish" at such a low cost.

That was me.

As you can see from the pics of my work, I achieved my goal ...

I produced what appeared to be a "factory finish" with spraypaint.

What you don't see in those pics is what that same guitar looked like soon after.

I've since purchased a compressor/spraygun rig and have painted several guitars using 2-pak acrylic urethane with alot of success. Curing time with this stuff is hours, not months. The paint is much more durable and I no longer have to worry about silly things like impressions being left in the finish from putting a guitar in it's case or allowing it to rest on the carpet or on a guitar stand.

So to answer your question, "what happened to change your mind?" ...

Experience

Sanding or scuffing the finish will work, but areas that you come into contact with (upper bouts, belly cuts, etc.) will eventually become more shiney with normal wear.

For the best results, I'd suggest shooting 2-pak acrylic urethane clearcoat with a flatening agent.

This sounds like the effects of spray paint taken to a WAAAAYYY extreme. I've seen higher quality spray paint work ALMOST as well as the kind you use from the gun...

Most of the pics you see online or in e-books were taken immediately after compounding and buffing out the finish. I agree you can paint a guitar with spraypaint and make it "appear" to be as good as those paintjobs done with a compressor/spraygun rig, but westhemann is right ... that look won't last a week.

Even after waiting 3-4 months for the spraypaint to cure and going through the whole wetsanding, compounding and buffing process... the paint is still not fully cured and will be extremely soft. You will find that any hardware (pickgaurds, pickup rings, neckplates, etc.) that comes into contact with the body will actually sink into the finish overnight.

Not to mention how all those coats of spraypaint will effect the sound of your instrument.

Do what's best for you.

I just thought you should know all the facts before making your decision.

... but if i do should i use krylon or duplicolor?

Neither ...

There are far too many disadvantages to using spraypaint.

1) It will take up to a year for the paint to fully cure. The more paint you use (multi-color paintjobs, stripes, camo, ect...) the longer it will take.

2) Even then, the paint is not durable enough to use for guitars.

The paint is soft and leaves "impressions" from things like putting the guitar in a case, resting it on the carpet, lay it on a towel, and even from your clothing (especially jeans if you rest it on your lap while you play it).

3) The rubber from guitar stands will eat right through the finish.

4) It's very suseptable to chemical reactions that cause wrinkles and/or cracks in the finish.

Yeah, spraypaint is cheap but just remember you get what you pay for.

What type of paint are you using?

For rattlecan paintjobs, I've used Minwax sanding sealer and have achieved pretty good results.

It can be found at Lowes or Home Depot as well.

When spraying acrylic urethanes, I use a Dupont epoxy primer/sealer.

Sealer and primer all in one application.

Works great for me.

Great tips. Thanks!

Just curious, what gauge wire do you guys use for wiring a guitar?

22 gauge is pretty standard

Poly wont age, like you want it to, ever. Sure, it might crack ONCE, but it wont get the tight cracking like a real vintage relic. It is extremely resistant to chipping, so to get it to chip, you really have to hit it hard... you dont want that... lots of small light knocks give a guitar an aged well worn look, several gaping holes just looks like you dropped it off a cliff.

Most 'car paint' places has awesome equipment, and zero ability to lay down a coat of non orange peel paint. They deal with hondas, hyundais, and other things that arent held less than a foot from your face on a daily basis. Sure, they MIGHT do a great job, but ive only seen a handful of panel beaters do a good job on wood.

Poly is EXTREMELY hard to wet sand and buff. Nitro is easy.

If you get someone else to do it, you wont have learnt anything, right? I reckon you should give it a go, its easier than you think, and rewarding.

+1 ... I'm glad someone else said it.

Mark out the areas, then use a forstner bit in a drill press or hand drill. Just be careful, you want to make sure you cut to the right depth. Then clean up with chisels, file, rasps, sandpaper, etc.

Dude, no offense but that is an incredible amount of work and will no doubt look like ass.

Good tips.

Also, you don't have to necessarily route it directly to the control cavity.

If it's easier to drill diagonally to the pickup cavity, you can then route it to the control cavity using the existing routing holes.

I've used those little Dremel router bits in a drill press before, but only for small jobs when I didn't feel like breaking out the router.

For what you want to do, I really think a router is your best bet.

Much quicker and much more precise than any alternative that I can think of.

Hey, out of curiosity, what kind of materials are you using, and what paints?

The paint list

Black - Dupont Chromabase

White - Dupont Chromabase

Yellow candy concentrate - Dupont Hot Hues

Green candy concentrate - Dupont Hot Hues

Red candy concentrate - Dupont Hot Hues

Hot Clear ( intercoat clear for mixing candy concentrates ) - Dupont Hot Hues

Chroma Clear 2K finishing clear - Dupont

I use many companies but have been trying to use all of the dupont products in the candies and intercoat lines because I get better pricing adn can by small quantities locally. For HOK and Alsa I have to but large larger amounts unless I buy it from someone who is repackaging. Coast Airbrush does a good job with the HOK stuff but I do not like to wait 7 days for my paint. I am reall liking the Hot Clear from dupont for airbrushing better than the HOK SG100.

By the looks of that bill of material, that's one expensive paintjob!

Not to mention the cost of time and labor involved.

Looks incredible!

Nice job.

Any idea before I booger up a good neck? Thanks.

Yeah ... buy another neck with an ebony fretboard.

Seriously ... you'll never get the look you want using stain or dye.

JMO

Playing gigs in smokey clubs turned my white guitars "yellow".

Unfortunately, that's not a look I care for.

Enamel will take up to a year to fully cure and still will not be durable enough to use on a guitar body. Same goes for Krylon, which is suppose to be an "acrylic lacquer".

If you're just trying to paint that one guitar, you may want to consider having someone else who has the proper equipment and paint, do it for you.

If you think you may see yourself painting more guitars in the future, I'd suggest investing in an air compressor, a couple spray guns and a good respirator.

... and stay away from that crap in a can stuff.

If you want a more durable clearcoat, Krylon is probably the worst solution.

Krylon stays soft for up to a year, and is prone to chemical reactions causing wrinkles and cracks to form in the finish.

I've had success clearcoating acrylic lacquer with acrylic urethane, but this was after waiting up to a year for the acrylic lacquer to fully cure.

If you're trying to achieve a "flat" finish, you can try adding a flatening agent to the acrylic urethane clearcoat.

Good luck (and stay away from that crap in a can).

I totally restored a Gibson Flying V about a year ago.

I'm not sure if your V has binding on the neck or not, but you should know that stripper will melt the binding and position markers right off the guitar.

If you MUST use stripper, tape up the binding and position markers on the neck as a precaution.

Use the stripper for the body only and good 'ol sandpaper on the neck.

Better safe than sorry IMO.

ryan's right ... that stuff takes forever to dry.

IMO, your best bet is to try spraying very lights coats.

And as pointed out ... lots of patience.

I'm confused

It says it's "ultra quiet", yet in the very next line it reads "oil-less".

If it's truly "oil-less", I seriously doubt it's very quiet.

In the end regardless of what gun you use you are going to sand and polish the finish to get it perfectly smooth. I have many guns by Iwata and Sata and they are great and will lay down a really smooth clear or base. If you do not learn to flow your clear you will always have orange peel. So laying down a great flowed out clear makes for less sanding but the polishing is the same after that. I would spend money on a decent gun but also a good variable speed electric buffer and 3inch air buffer. Also a good pad and compound system. I prefer the 3M perfectit system and the foam waffle buffing pads.

+1 ...

Applying the paint is only part of the process.

Man, that looks sweet!