Southbound

Another series of excellent points J. I'm totally convinced this is a bad idea.... STILL I'm learning so much so I'm gonna keep asking question if anyone cares to keep indulging me! Incidently I'm looking at Australian woods, imparticular for my projects (mainly cos they are readily available to me) Anyone (presumably other Aussie builders...or not) listening in know if Blackwood used as a fingerboard would need specific finishing like Maple does?

not sure if I'd use the word outdated but I know what you main and I agree... see the thing is though (using those manufaturing principles again) adding a seperate fingerboard also adds another step in the process. A channel though the back means no need to add a seperate fingerboard (no glueing, clamping, drying time, truing up the edges)

OK OK!!! Geeez...shatter my dreams and trample my fragile ego why dont ya's! (HAHA!!) No seriously... I can totally see where you guys are coming from. It seems that doing things this way would potentially introduce more problems than it would solve. I like to persist with an idea until I can be convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that it's not worth pursuing. You guys have convinced me of that. It's great to have so many knowledgable people at your fingertips...thanks again I just wanted to clarify something for the record... I DO understand the importance of the truss rod for its ability to make adjustment to a neck. More specifically to help maintain a parallel between neck and strings across the entire length of the neck. Obviously if a neck (made from any material) is subject to bowing, warping, fatigue, twisting or moving from its intended setup position in anyway, the truss rod is an integral part of correcting the problem. HOWEVER... "hyperthetically" (or if you like, "in my own little fantasy world") there are 2 senarios where I can see that a truss rod would be meaningless... 1) if the area between the nut and the bridge were made from material so strong that it would not move no matter what kind of force or tension were applied to it (I know fantasy land right?) 2) if the neck (or at least the part of the neck that resists bowing and twisting) were made of a material so strong that it would not move no matter what kind of force or tension a TRUSS ROD (or even 2) could apply to it (I don't know if that material exists but that was my original thinking behind the CF idea). I'd be interested to know if something like the Ricky double truss rod setup could exert enough force to bend a 12mmx12mm solid peice of CF. Having said all that...I see now how other factors particlaurlly the integrity of the glue bonding and the expansion rate factor come into play as significant draw backs even if the CF was that strong. oh, also you might still be thinking "Why the hell is this guy being so persistent about this stupid idea" Well, I come froma manufacturing background and there are 3 costs to making a product: overheads, parts and labour it's the Leo Fender principle really... keep the quality but knock down the labour cost (and where possible the number of parts involved) by simplifying the build process. My original thought: Eliminate the fiddly part of inserting the truss rod and making the fillet by routing a channel and gluing in a cheap (relative to labour) prefabricated CF rod. Saving on both labour and parts without compromising quality you fellas have prove to me the significant risk of compromising quality which makes the idea one for the toilet I know, I know...it's not like I'm gonna be producing a million guitars so what does it matter right?...it's just the way I think.

J, well the whole idea started out as ainterst in CF. I actually initially thought it might be easy to work with and simple to shape...that's why I asked the question I guess. Funny you should mention being able to drop the right size peices straight in cos I been looking into suppliers who might provide a square rods in a size that I might be able to drop straight into a channel as a substitute for a truss rod. I've been looking into what size peice would be able to withstand the tension that super heavy gauge strings might exert on a neck over a baritone style long scale guitar. In my searching I've looked at a few guitar companies that use graphite and even make solid graphite necks...interestingly I notice Modulus Basses have complete graphite necks and by the look of the photos they also have a truss rod adjustment...surely that neck is going nowhere if its solid graphite. Does anyone think the truss rod is overkiller, I mean would a truss rod be powerful enough to bend a graphite neck anyway? Tim

thanks heaps guys, sounds like pretty nasty stuff in general. I think based on what you guys have said I will proceed very carefully. So key issues seem to: Nasty Spinters Irritation of the skin Dust that is dangerous to the lungs General unforgiving nature of the material when working with it due to it's rigidity making it taxing on tools Tendency to stain nearby surfaces with it's fine dust Reluctance to bond well with other materials (probably the biggest worry in terms of use as a building material...all the others can be delt with by excising extreme care) I think I'll do some testing with various glues and woods to see how the bonding thing works out. I'd like to leave some laminates under tension for a good while and try to punish them a bit as if they were part of a guitar that was being taken on the road. I will be intereting to see if they split our loose there adhesion. On the plus side: since much of what has been written leans toward negative press for the poor old graphite stick I think the positive points seem to be these: It's strong...really strong (strong enough to POTENTIALLY do away with those pescky truss rods altogether) It's durable...so it wont wear out, fatigue, ding or warp like wood can It's light...really light It's not overly expensive It's manufactured to spec so unlike wood it SHOULD be of the same quality every time you buy it. Not sure of it's environmental impact but you don't have to lop a 100+ year old tree down to get some decent stuff Given all these pros and cons I think it's worth investing a little time in a few experiments to see if it can become a regular material for my future projects... Thanks again guys fro all you insight... Tim

Hey guys, thanks heaps for your insight so far... Westhemann: I respect you opinon as I read few of you threads and you seem to know your way around a guitar. Was just wondering, is this not a good idea based soley on the DANGER of working with the substance or are there other issues that make it a no goer? (just as a side note: I have access to great safety gear including full respirators and clothing (a mate who's daddy owns a safety company ))

Hey fellas, thanks for the Welcome! Pete I've ready alot of your posts, the sustainer is very inspiring...you might just be my port of call for electroni9c wizardry. I have a few sneaky ideas to throw around that I'm sure you'll have some insight into. The Bluetiful Tele is a truely an inspiring instrument, beautiful and inovative. I'd love hear in live some time, let me know when it's making a live appearance in Melbourne. Stu Style , style, style. I'm a big fan of the Duelist. Just looking at that thing makes me wanna shed!! Big fan of Aussie wood too. I reckon you could teach me a thing or two about working with it and maybe give some tips creating those stunning finishes. Hopefully as I learn more I can be of some inspiration to you guys... at this point you'll just have to be satisfied with me being a sponge.

Hey ae3, actually I'm a Victorian! Got the Tassie Tiger there cos my first guitar is gonna be called the Tassie Tiger (Tiger Myrtle top...yummy!) so..yeah...just the one head (hehe)! So any ideas on how sand paper reacts to graphite ...badly by the sound of it. I s'pose spoke shaving would be out of the question too. Any suggestions for shaping it?

Hi all, I'm a shiny new poster although I've been lapping up info from this forum for quite a while. I was thinking about trying a skunk stripe made from graphite on an upcoming project. Did some searching but haven't found any examples. I've seen that you can buy it from some guitar part suppliers in various lengths and thicknesses, presumably for use in nuts and between laminates. Anyone had any experience in working with graphite? I'm sure many of you have worked with graphite nuts before, perhaps some of you have attempted a graphite guitar? Is it workable in terms of cutting and shaping? Do you use conventional cutting and sanding methods? I believe it's super strong and durable. Any idea how it would react to the movement of a neck if in place as a truss rod fillet? Thanks for reading (the first of many posts I'm sure!) Tim

Hi everyone, My names' Tim. I've been lurking around the forum for a while now..just reading and learning. I've taken lots of advice, read lots of info include the manditory Hiscock book and reckon I'm about ready to start my first real guitar project. Of course I'll be looking for a hell of a lot more advice along the way...hopefully that's where you guys come in. Anyway, here's my plan so far: I have an old Les Paul copy which is a flat top, bolt on neck...mmm I know! It does however have a mahogany body (all be it made from about 6 peices!) I have stripped it apart and sanded it back. I used a thicknesser to flatten out the top and I am gonna put a book matched carve top on it (Aussie Blackwood...thanks Tim from Australian Tonewoods). I'm also gonna try to modify the the bolt on tenon into a glue in neck...strange but true. I wanna finish the whole thing off with white plastic binding and a honeyburst burst finish (oh and of course block inlays instead of dots) All of this is really just for the sake of practicing my new craft. I read quite a bit about learning a lot from doing things the hard way and making mistakes....that's what this prject is all about! From here I have many more idea's...including my own line of world famous guitars (HA!!!!) Look forward to getting to know you guys Tim