ByronBlack

Humbuckers are awfully thick...how about kent-armstrong/dano style lipsticks?

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Would this give enough output though? I'm wanting to use the guitar as a metal rythm beast.

Well the nut was in pretty poor shape, it was actually glued in at an angle and still had glue lines down the side, the pocket was still rough and wasn't straight, and the jack plug made a buzzing noise - so I think it can quite rightly be labelled as junk.

All things that You can fix!!! Does nobody buy a junk guitar to practice on any more? I enjoy taking A pice of crap and Fixing it and reworking it to make it in to something better, It's fun, it keep's my skills fresh, it allows me to try ney things with out fear

!!METAL MATT!!

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I have to agree with you there Matt. I have a couple of cheapy guitars which i pulled apart then rebuilt, just for experience on how things work.

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Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one, i'm all for practising on guitars, I have couple of el-cheapo's in the shed that I do the work on, but I honestly feel the wesley guitars are not only extremely poor but very very difficult to make anything useful out of IMHO.

You oughta see about getting a Super Distortion made for the Parker Fly. No mounting ears, you use two of the polepieces to mount the pickup to the body.

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I have a spare DiMarzio pup laying about with not much to do, so I was either going to grind off the ear-pieces myself and mount like you suggested, or in my other thread, it was mentioned about sending the bolts in from the back - need to think more on this.

I like your design mate, very cool

Its hard to make a good judgement from your rough sketch, but I can't help think a 3x3 headstock would be more suited to that body design.

Either way, lookin' sharp

- Dan

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Thanks, I did toy with the idea of 3x3 but there's something a little different about a 4x2 that I like.

While I do think the thin body will work, I had to point out that guitar necks aren't "holding up fine" and that's why they all have truss rods. If there's a chance to bust Perry on his choice of words I have to do it.   

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Are you suggesting that a 25mm body will need a truss rod?

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Ha! No. I just thought it was funny that you said necks were "holding up fine" because they're not. Without the rod they'd be bananas. It just sounded funny the way you made your comparison. That's why my first point was to agree with the feasibility.

But it is true that guitar bodies can move over time. I've seen many guitars get a slight bow to them. Sometimes it manifests itself as less pullup on a trem, because the bridge has to sit a little deeper. Sometimes the pickups and/or T-o-M bottoms out. I've seen it on SG's, Sabers & Stealths, Melody Makers, etc. I started looking for it a long time ago with straight edges. I was interested in the effects of years (and decades) of string tension. Somewhat of a "the anatomy of vintage" study. Wood moves over time anyway. So while you couldn't say string tension was responsible, I never saw a body that bowed backwards. So to this day, I design my guitars with the bridge to have ample downward adjustment, like even until the strings rest on the fretboard. Byron, you'd be wise to do the same.

Also I'd go with an Ibanez style barrel jack. It solves all your problems. You would even have room to recess it a little, and recess the control cavity cover. There's room on that guitar for vol/tone pots, too.

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Frank is what you mean about the jack?

Stew Mac Flush Mounted Jack

I've just ordered a couple for my current projects and thought it might be useful.

With regards the vol, tone pots, one of the reasons for not putting them on, is because I very rarely ever use them. I mostly play hard rock and metal rythm, and the bridge pickup is always selected on full vol and tone, never felt the need to change them, and I quite like the idea of having a super simple, plug-in and play type of guitar with very clean lines.

If this project works, i'll do another with full electrics, (need to practice electrics, I can barely use a soldering iron :-)

Thanks for all your idea's, and i'll take note of the point about the bridge..

I guess it all depends.  There are some objective things that make guitars bad, (lack of) quality is one of them.  I mean, if crap starts falling off when you touch it, or the nut is cut incorrectly, or all the pots are crap.  That's easy to define as "bad."  But when people start saying stuff like, "they all sound terrible," or "they play like crap," well, that's subjective and should be taken what it's worth.

Personally I have a bias towards cheap guitars, because I'm never afraid to drop a cheap guitar.  Plus, my three best playing guitars combined cost roughly half what my worst playing guitar cost new, and I'd put two of them up against anything you've got, tonally.  So, I've had good experience with them.

But that's just me, your mileage may vary.

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Well the nut was in pretty poor shape, it was actually glued in at an angle and still had glue lines down the side, the pocket was still rough and wasn't straight, and the jack plug made a buzzing noise - so I think it can quite rightly be labelled as junk.

Newbie here, working on my 2nd guitar. First one really doesn't count as it was a Warmoth Neck & Body, and I did none of the cutting, trimming,  sanding or finishing.

I have decided that I my approach will be pretty basic. I'll use a router and router table to cut the initial outline, and get as deep as I can with the router ( all the way through with 1" billets, but I've got 3 2" billets that will need to be cut multiple times to get all the way through).

I've currently got an old router my dad gave me, an old Sears Craftsman 1 3/4 HP that's about 20 years old, and a small router table.

I'm considering making a major investment in a new router and router table. The testosterone voice tells me to get a 3 HP Router from hell that can cut through purpleheart like it's butter. Get a BenchDog routing table with the lifting system, soundproof the interior of the routing table to cut down on noise.

The beancounter voice in my head is telling me to get by with the router I've got until I'm better at this whole electric guitar thing. If I choose to upgrade anything, upgrade the desktop drill press to one that can take a 3/8" shank on a robo-sander. Use the router to rough the outline, then use the robosander on the drill press to get a tighter tolerance around my template.

What are y'all using for routers, routing tables and the like?

Sincerely,

Grim

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Hi Grim, i've recently upgraded my Ryobi to a Trend 1/5 router - its very good and definitly comes recommended, however i'm assuming you are in the USA - not sure if you have Trend overthere.

As for router-tables, I would strongly suggest buying 'Router Magic' - this book is fantastic and has plans for loads of router jigs, and has a whole section on router-tables, even a free-standing router station.

I think you might benefit from a saw to cut out your initial shape, and then use the router to trim using a template and flush-trim cutter - I get the impression you want to use your router to cut out the body-shape from a blank? I did something similar to this on a different project, and had very nasty results including a router that ended up burnt-out, although to be fair it was a cheap router.

I ain't sure, but my bet is on Wall of Death.

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I suppose that would make sense - I still like to think of a medieval torture contraption making small wooden pigeons!

Ok, based on my discussion of using 25mm maple for a body, after speccing it out, it seems about do-able, so i'm going to give it a go, and if it fails, I can always add a top to it and rescue it.

Anways, here's a sketch of the design, I will be doing a full drawing when I iron this out, any thoughts, comments welcomed.

Spec:

Gibson 24 3/4 Scale

1 Bridge Humbucker (DiMarzio Super Distortion)

Nashville TOM

No volume, or tone pots.

Mahogany set-neck with rosewood fingerboard

Maple body (might use a walnut burr veneer - undecided on that) 25mm thick.

Inlays on the body (wavy lines)

Fender style non-angled headstock

22 Frets (joining the body at 16)

Probably a natural finish with a wipe on poly coat.

I should be starting the building of this in a couple of weeks. But thought i'd gauge your opinions on the design. It's inspired by my Westbury Standard, but with a slight Parker and SG influence as well.

I'm not sure about the finish on the top, it will have a very deep set mahogany neck, almost a neck-through, I could cover this with a walnut burr veneer or if I need some extra depth, I have some 5mm curly maple, i'll need to think about this more..

Here is the link to the photo-set that I will routinely update throughout the progress.

Wafer-Caster Photo Set

Stupid question:

What is WOD? I've tried to search, but it won't allow it because its under 4 characters.

My first guess was 'Wood-0-destructor' thinking drak has some weird cast iron medieval torture implement to turn guitar bodies into small wooden pigeons or something..

cool beans drak, but how dare you slaughter a bon jovi song!

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I'm very excited to see the outcome of this, I love black/red combinations on guitars, and I have to say, that wood is astonishingly beautifull!

Great work drak, can't wait to see the progress on this one.

I can talk from experience about Wesley guitars, I bought a warlock copy from them recently with the intention of using it to learn about setups, fretting etc.

I paid about £50 - it wasn't worth £5!!

There absolutely junk I would recommend spending the money on beer, playboy, pringles, cheese or a lotto scratch-card,  all immeasureably more value than these guitars!

I sold mine about a week after i bought - for more than I paid I might add..

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Well then, seems it was a good purchase

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I guess in financial terms aye, the pain of playing it and the god-awful tone that came out of the amp is definitly not worth it ;-)

The Melody Maker mounts the jack into a pickguard, that gives you an extra couple of millimeters to work with.

Still, I think you should rethink the idea.

I mean, why not try something funkier?

That 9 inch/50 mm piece of maple will make an awesome central column for a guitar --you could add wings to that. You could make a travel guitar. Make detachable wings. Make modular wings--instant body shape changes. House everything in the central column and make one wing with an extensive effects section, the second wing with a mini-power amp, mix steel and wood, incorporate tubular bells, etc. etc.

Part of what makes some guitar builders great (like Myka for one) is their willingness to explore other conceptions of what a guitar can be. As long as you're starting out, why not put some of that into your work?

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I like the idea of the tubular bells!!

There some great idea's, and maybe I can do some of those in a future design, I really like the idea of somehow mounting a Boss Metal Zone pedal's electrics into the body of a guitar, but I have a really nice piece of walnut coming that I won on ebay, so I think i'll leave it for that.

I was re-thinking about the jack last night, and come to roughly the same conclusion that a strat-style is probably not going to be as succesful as using a side-mounted gibson style jack. I have a couple of spare metal gibson jack plates, so I could use one of them, will need to grind the edges down a little, but again if i'm careful enough this may work.

It's not so much the pickup route itself, but the screws it takes to mount it. I'm not sure I made that clear. Especially with a traditional pickup that has the ears lowered. You'll never get a good mount that way. You could put the screws in from the back and put foam under the pickup. Just drill two holes from underneath and countersink them.

With no neck pickup the guitar should be fine. Take the neck joint all the way into the bridge pickup route so it disappears inside there.

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The first idea of countersinking the screws from behind seems like a great idea - easy to hide with wooden caps too !!

As for the second part, this was exactly what I was thinking, it will make the join a little less abrubt if it starts part way through the pup route.

I'm feeling pretty confident about this now.

The only thing that is currently an issue would be a cavity for the jackplate - I entend not to have any pots at all - full volume and full tone are the only way I tend to play. If I was to use a rear-mounted strat style jackplate, do you know how much space I would need? I don't have a strat jack at hand, and can't find the depth measurements online..

Ah scrap that last question, just read on stew-macs i'll need a 14mm rout - this shouldn't be too much of a problem either..

I'll have to check the depths with the pup routes - thanks for bringing that up.

Here is a quick drawing i've done in photoshop using mm scale, i've used mostly regular thicknesses for the neck, fingerboard and TOM so far it's looking doable. Anyone see anything wrong or glaringly obvious that i've not thought of??

Pic of scale drawing

look....you ae going to end up with a guitar that is too thin.bottom line.

i personally think you should just use it as a cap on some mahogany and go that direction with it.

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Wes, I'll certainly use it as a cap if it does come out too thin, or, I have some nice 5mm curly maple that I could cap it with - either way I agree with you that its best to use as a cap if its too thin.

You have to understand that Perry's tone generally comes across as that of an ass. 90% of the time he doesnt feel the need to post anything helpful (here I suppose he did). You just need to latch onto the few nuggets he is so generous to drop on us from time to time I suppose. Dont take it personally, he does it to everyone.

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Fair enough Jay, but I really wasn't taking it personaly. I have done with some of his other posts, but not this, but either way, i'm really grateful for everyone's input here.

I've started making some drawings here on paper - and with a little jiggery-pokery, I think its going to be possible - aslong as the wood is no thinner than 25mm..

When i've completed the drawings, i'll post them here so you lot can cast your beady eye's over and see if i've mis-calcuated anthing.

I woud have appreciated some of your experience and insight more than a slightly negative comment. C'est le vie.

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Because you take everything so personally, i'll make a definate effort to never involve myself in your threads any longer. That way you cant possibly get upset.

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Perry, its not that I take everything you post personaly, but I feel that your last post was overly negative to what I thought was a genuine question that could have been answered by someone of your experience, thats all.

But if you feel you don't want help out anymore, then I respect your decision.

Ummmmmmmm, maybe Im missing somthing here. Figure you get a generous 23mm after resawing (53mm still wont give you 25mm halves). Now you have a 20-21mm neck as Perry pointed out, thats about 3/4" which is standard fender style heel thickness (not saying thats the rout your going, just making an argument) .That leaves you oh, 5-7mm of wood behind the heel with a modest 5/8" pocket depth. Im no engineer but I imagine the strain on that bit of material might be a bit more than it can handle, especially if you do a bolt on. You would have to set the heel pretty far into the body to give yourself enough area on the sides to support that thin area, no Fender style heel. I just dont think it will work. I would love to be proved wrong, but I think your just trying to go too thin here.

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Well, i'll check the thickness after re-sawing to be on the safe-side, if its too thin then i'll cap it. Just as an aside, the kerf on my bandsaw is about 1.5mm so resawing 53mm should be about 25 otherwise if its 23 then thats a 7mm loss during a re-saw, is that right?

As for the neck heel, I was going to have the neck set in quite far into the body (almost to the bridge pickup), the fingerboard will be slightly raised anyway to avoid the neck angle for use with the TOM, so I could still go with a 23-25mm neck which should allow a pretty big gluing area and enough wood to create a nice heel.

I think I shall draw this out in some plans.. thanks for all your input, you've given me a number of issues I need to look at - which was what I hoping for. Thanks

I can talk from experience about Wesley guitars, I bought a warlock copy from them recently with the intention of using it to learn about setups, fretting etc.

I paid about £50 - it wasn't worth £5!!

There absolutely junk I would recommend spending the money on beer, playboy, pringles, cheese or a lotto scratch-card, all immeasureably more value than these guitars!

I sold mine about a week after i bought - for more than I paid I might add..

Basicly you can go as thin as you electronics will let you   The wood is plenty strong.  As long as the pickups and pots and such can handle it than your good to go.  Remember you won't be able to use a trem...

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Aye, I thought about the trem, and i'm happier using a TOM (as I have 1 spare also). As for the electrics, I also thought about that, and what I would do is not have neck angle and raise the neck a little to match the height of the TOM this will allow the pickups to sit a little higher out of the body so that the amount of routing would generally be less. (pup's will be direct mounted to the body)

I havn't measured how much depth i'll need for a jack plug though, but maybe a strat style front-facing one would require less of a cavity?

I think I was more worried about the strength of the wood, so with you and others putting me straight on that, it seems it might be possible.

Cheers for the input.

Some people cant see the forrest for the trees.... they over analyse everything, instead of just getting their hands dirty....

How thick is your neck?? Oh, 20-21mmm.... That seems to be holding up fine doesnt it....

How wide is your neck?? Oh, about 6-8 times narrower than the body....

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Perry, this was my thinking with taking the body to 25mm (ish) the neck to body join should still be pretty solid as the thicknesses would be identical.

I think i'll go ahead and try it and see how it turns out, I can always rescue it if it fails.

I've been given a piece of 50mm thick maple which is too narrow to make a guitar body (9") so I was thinking of resawing this into a bookmatched 18" piece, but this would leave it at just 25mm.

I'll be using a TOM bridge, so i'm thinking i could perhaps get away with a thin body, but not sure how it would hold up under-pressue, would there be danger of warping/twisting?

I remember somone posting to a website that had really thin guitars but couldn't find it agian.

Any info gratefully received.

BB

No not before me!!!!!! Ive been talking about a voodoo finish Sg for 2 years, and am finaly starting to order things for it and you jumo in aahhh. Anyways theres a hint, do a search I have threads on it. Black paint with no filler then red grainfiller over it and there you go.

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This is funny, i'm currently designing a guitar that will have a voodoo finish. I played the explorer and though it was better than the 'goth' range, nice tone, and that finish is wonderful.