Mike.Mara

I agree completely there, when you start to see things you just couldn't before sanding it is nice, like tiny bits of curl or just a shimmer to certain parts of the grain that make you really appreciate that what we work with is so incredibly beautiful. It's just for me the dust and noise (And sometimes smell) is something I could happily live without if there was an alternative. But I guess that's all part of the artistry, nothing in, nothing out. It's all a labour of love, just some parts I love less than others lol.

Mike.

3 minutes ago, ScottR said:

It's looking mighty fine to me. 

And I actually enjoy sanding...

SR

Thanks! And to each his own I guess lol, I suppose it's a bit like music, Just because I don't like a certain sound it doesn't mean it's not beautiful to someone else huh. But I suppose if I could carve like you it would seem like less of a chore and more a part of the art form! 

2 minutes ago, Prostheta said:

Good work Mike! I think that now is a useful time to be self-critical about your neck profile and transitions. Not that they're bad, however I find that this is where the most can be learnt from neck builds. You can maybe make the neck to heel thickness transition a little sharper, as it currently blends in over several frets. You'll feel that, and it'll maybe make that area of the neck "less inviting" if you get what I mean. It's difficult to tell, because the photo I got that info from was before the sanding phase....you'll be able to get your hands on and see what you can feel of course.

Meh, mineral streak. It is what it is. I like these little reminders that our material of choice was a living organic thing with its own individuality. It's just expessing that here.

Thanks, And I agree it's nice to have the reminder that we're working with something that was once a living being and the fact that 2 pieces from the same tree can have wildly different characteristics... It's just unfortunate that this reminder looks like a mistake lol. I personally love burl, spalting and all that beautiful figuring, knots and all that makes each piece you work with one-of-a-kind. It can never be replicated so each piece has... For lack of a better term, it's own soul.

The transition on the heel is actually extremely comfortable, at least for me, maybe it's just the way the photo shows it like you said, but the neck has a quite extreme asymmetrical shape which really helps me comfort-wise which the pictures don't show. Also that weird little hump you see there was sculpted out with the sander, Since I was getting a bit of chatter I decided to quit with the carving there and sculpt instead... Looking back at the picture it does seem a weird transition before the sculpting. I bolted the neck on earlier today and had a little string-less play (Must have looked weird to the neighbours) and all feels great to me, very similar to my Ibanez necks to which I'm far too used to. I do appreciate the constructive criticism/advise though, that is how we learn . This forum has already saved me from a few mistakes I probably would have made and people like you make it all possible!

Mike.

Duh duh duhhhhh... Sorry it's been a while, the next step scared the hell out of me: Carving the neck! (So I've been putting it off.)

All done with a spokeshave, half-round file and my favourite sander... The random orbital! God how I love that thing! Still dislike sanding though... But it makes it less of a hatred and more of an annoyance you just need to get out of the way.

Spokeshave fun, I do love them, they make easy work of most things as long as they're sharp of course. Mine was a little dull since I was too impatient to sharpen it properly so I only got it to 800  but it did the job like a champion apart from a little chatter every now and then.

I'm sooooo glad I invested in that sander... It went from something akin to being chewed on by a dog to beautifully smooth in a matter of 10 minutes or so. The carve isn't quite how I wanted since it's a little thick on the bass side but it sure is comfortable so I figured I'd let it be rather than tempt fate.

Not too bad for a first go... I may get braver with the next one... Maybe...

Tuners on... Thank god for CAD, the tuners just clear each other. (The headstock is a little on the small side so that'll need some adjusting on the next one... Funny how things look different on a screen and even as a template as opposed to the real thing huh!)

Can't wait to get some finish on this thing!

Just roughly placed... Still can't decide on the angle. And damn these things are heavy but I wanted locking tuners for this one because next to sanding, re-stringing is the worst...

Side dots installed:

And the nearly sanded to perfection body with the placement of the pots and selector switch! (I may have to skim a little more off of the inside of the cavity where the switch goes as it will JUST poke through enough to get the nut on.

Next up will be more sanding... Great. Then using a clear grain filler on the neck and body as I really don't like the look of colour filling, I want to be able to see the pores without feeling them. And of course staining, scraping for the natural "binding" and finishing with sanding sealer and lacquer. I decided against oil because the products I looked at all had scary MSDS's. So I'm going with acrylic lacquer, Time will tell if that was a mistake. (The MSDS for the acrylic was basically... Wear a mask... Done.)

Unfortunately the centre line is about 1-2MM off of centre but hey... That's what you get for thinking eye-balling it is better than measuring lol.

And one more for the road... The back, Neck ferrules in place so now it's just drilling the through-string holes... Well... Through the body and installing the string ferrules. Not quite decided yet on whether or not to round off the back edges or chamfer them. I do find that if they're rounded, with the way I play, the guitar slowly starts to slide away from my body. 

I've also decided against recessing the control cavity plate and instead opting for one that will sit on top since they never get in my way and for some reason I really like the look... Don't ask why lol.

And I forgot to mention... Still need to drill the bridge ground wire hole too... And the jack socket... Hmm... Why did I start finish sanding again?

Still need to sand the back more but that will be done after I decide what to do with the edges. And that big dark line... That's not a glue line, if you look closely you can see the glue line just under that... Not sure what that is, it sure looks like a bad glue line but it isn't. I thought I'd really messed up on the centre line and had a bad joint until I realised it's just there. (When viewed from the neck pocket you can see it's slightly diagonal with the grain... Mineral streak?)  Ohh well, maybe it'll fade when the finish is on... We can all dream right? Lol.

Thanks for looking,

Mike.

4 hours ago, Mateyboy said:

Yeah, I'm not confident enough to slot a fretboard, although I have an idea. When I buy my next fretboard I might make a slotting jig with it; that is use the bought one to make a template from.

I was thinking of using my CNC to make a mitre box like the StewMac/LMII style since I can make one for a lot less than theirs cost. You might be better off getting a fret ruler to make a box from though, as if you slip with the saw you could ruin both. (That's assuming you're thinking of running a saw in the slots to mark stock either side of course).

3 hours ago, Prostheta said:

Slotting a board by hand is a combination of keeping the board secure, the blade level and that it doesn't wander around. I've a number of tricks which I use when slotting, which I even do when using a mitre slotting box simply as a second safeguar, such as using a pocket flashlight directly over the saw so that it casts a thin shadow over the board where it will be slotting.

The flashlight idea is a good one! I probably never would have thought of that but I can see how that would give you a nice fine shadow... Almost like a laser line. That's going to come in handy for quite a few things! Thanks!

I suppose you could if you added stepper motors... But that's a whole other story and work lol. It wouldn't be too difficult but the sheer effort and external components needed would make it maybe not worth it lol.

Tools with DRO are never excessive , Even if they do need their own hangar! ... If you had the patience you could easily add that kind of DRO to a more modest saw...

As long as the end result is something you're happy with, compromises are fine. I had to compromise on the fretboard and hardware on my build... But hey, sometimes you think you're having to compromise but the end result is better than planned because of that.

I really like your engineered approach to almost everything here... That ruler/square you made for the bevel was ingenious! I'm sure this will be incredible when it's done!

Mike.

(And damn... That table saw... )

I was considering building a 27" SG until I remembered the balance issues. Have you got a build thread of the one you're building now?

4 hours ago, Mateyboy said:

It's not a problem... yet... fingers crossed! 

 

This is interesting, never actually looked at it this way. I guess it would be a lot less hassle than unclamping the neck every number of strokes to check progress.

Hopefully all will continue to go well! The guys at PRS have some interesting jigs and ways of doing things, they even have big extractors behind their radiusing jigs so all they have to do is brush the dust away instead of grabbing a shop vac. It all seems very efficient! If I ever try radiusing by hand again that will probably be the way I'll try it. (My first attempt at radiusing and slotting by hand did not go well lol).

Looking forward to seeing how this turns out!

Mike.

Since you're in the UK like me... Maybe check this out? I'm considering using it for my build as I don't want to "colour fill" the mahogany. http://www.tonetechluthiersupplies.co.uk/aqua-coat-clear-wood-grain-filler.html

You can use it after the stain/dye to fill any pores/slight holes ect. and won't affect your colour any more than finish will. Of course you need to know what finish you're using and if it's compatible... But the guys there should be able to help.

Also... To your radiusing problem, The guys here will probably be able to tell you whether this is good or bad as far as ideas go, but why not try adjusting your truss rod until your neck is dead flat, flipping your radius beam over and moving the neck against the beam instead of the beam against the neck? I know PRS do it that way but their fretboards are already radiused and they're just fine sanding so may not be the best idea but it's probably what I'd try in the same situation.

Mike.

14 minutes ago, Prostheta said:

Funny thing I learnt the last year or so is that the same species of various "African Mahoganies" (Sapele, Khaya, Utile) vary in weight dependant on local source. My personal preference is Khaya, and the lighter of that stock. I'm finishing up my wife's SG with that and its turned out to be very moderately weighted. Lovely dry "bonk" (arf cough) given the time the wood has been in an indoor environment too.

That's interesting, I know quite a few woods are listed as "African mahogany" when they're just mahogany-like. I never even considered the weights. I'm not entirely sure of the exact species of this wood, it was sold as African mahogany from a luthier supplies shop here in the UK so I would hope it's that but it does bare a striking resemblance to ribbon sapele... I don't mind as it has a nice ring to it and as long as a guitar sounds and plays good I'm not too fussed with what it's made of... Although looks are always helpful!

Is the SG nicely weighted/balanced too as in no head dive? The one I used to own was horribly heavy and prone to head-banging the floor if you took your eyes off of it... 

Got some more body work done today, as well as inspecting the fingerboard join which looks to be fine... 

Bridge pickup finally routed... My drill press couldn't get all the way in there, but my mini mill as it turns out could so I hogged it out before routing.

I've had that acrylic pickup template for about 10 years when I first decided I wanted to build a guitar  Glad it's finally being used! Not sure why it's taken me so long to get around to building one... Maybe through fear of messing it up and my usual excuse "But I don't have the tool for that". Either way, I'm glad I waited since my woodworking knowledge and skill back then would not have been up to the task!

Control cavity routed... I was going to do the plate/cover recess but my bearing guided bit is too long and I couldn't find any scraps thick enough to allow me to build a thick enough template. (I know it's a bit of a mess in there but I wanted to leave enough material to make the top nice and strong so I couldn't take out all the forstner marks... I drop my guitars alot... )

And now some pictures of a some-what dry assembly just to get an idea of the look... Not really happy that I had to go maple on the fretboard but I'm hoping once the dye job is done It'll make the whole thing a bit more cohesive... It's ALOT of maple.

Still alot more work to go, There was a fair bit of tear-out when I thicknessed the top with my router plane/sled thingy. And the body is still a little chunky for my taste at 48MM... It's a fair sized chunk of heavy african mahogany and it would kill my shoulder at the moment. It does have a beautiful ribbon figure to it though, Can't see it to well in the photos but after finishing...  Shame it'll be hidden at the back.

Mike.

On 12/04/2017 at 6:18 PM, Prostheta said:

Welding. Proper metal glue. 

Ohh OK lol... Thought you meant some scary in-the-bottle stuff.

22 hours ago, Prostheta said:

I love plywood for my jigs and other things. I've even made a camera arm out of it. As soon as you add strengthening fillets, plus use glue and screws, it's solid as anything.

It seems pretty solid, and usually is especially for jigs! But my gantry plates are 1000MM apart so you can tweak the plywood pretty easily, It's worked out well enough for now though... Just need to convert my mini-mill to CNC so I can make some aluminium parts to replace the plywood. Unfortunately my CNC has eccentric nuts to tighten the wheels to the guides and without cranking them nice and snug they tend to loosen relatively quickly, and since you already know, plywood will crush under relatively low force and that would throw my alignment out if I tightened them to the point they stayed put. I suppose I could always make them again with brass or steel threaded inserts to make it crush-proof...  Hmmm... That could work, I may have to scutter off and play with CAD to re-design them. The eccentrics could be an issue but I guess I could always epoxy some brass tubing into the plywood...

Mike.

Just now, Prostheta said:

 

The best advice I can give is to make that break from urethane glues ASAP. They're good for outdoor furniture and boatbuilding, so unless you're wanting to paddle up the creek and all that....hahaha

I love plywood. I really do. In terms of a material for engineering, it's fantastic to work with and produces great results with little effort. Metals are a totally different artform, especially since the glue makes you go blind. 

Wait... Say what about what glue and going blind?!

Plywood is a great material, Unfortunately it is flexible which can be good or bad depending on your use. I only use Polyurethane on non-structural applications where I don't want to wait over night before I feel confident working it. I know ScottR said it's a non-issue with Titebond I, but I'm a stickler for following the label on bottles.   (I don't know what I was thinking when considering using it for the fretboard... Maybe I forgot the truss rod pushes against it, I have no idea, but I wasn't considering it to be structural at that point...  Let alone adding moisture to wood I've had drying out in various stages for the best part of a decade).

Mike.

OK... Overnight the gap seems to have closed... Or maybe my mind was just making it look bigger, we're talking maybe 0.1mm of gap now. Still not how I wanted it but the joint seems to be OK except for a maybe 0.25mm gap by the first fret but that appears to be my fault, Like I planed an ever so slight chamfer just at that point somehow. (Maybe I pressed down on the front of the No.7 as I ran off the board...)

2 minutes ago, Prostheta said:

Their waterproof properties are useless in this context, they're horribly poisonous (and irritating) plus foam up like a dolphin sucking on a handful of Alka-Seltzers.

Lol... They are annoying but cure super fast and for some of the stuff I do it's the perfect glue.

5 minutes ago, Prostheta said:

All very by the numbers stuff, fantastic! No jointer or thicknesser, yet you have a nice CNC kicking around. Stylish. 

I wouldn't say it was a nice one lol... It was certainly cheaper than a jointer and thicknesser but the amount of work I had to do to make the kit I bought actually useful was insane! The guy did a terrible engineering job! (To put it in context... I replaced most of the aluminium with plywood parts I made by hand to actually make it accurate enough to function as a CNC should.)

Thanks for the complement, hopefully it continues to go well!

Mike.

1 hour ago, ScottR said:

The dampening on the second piece is one of the strikes against polyurethane as introducing additional moisture into a neck component is something we don't want to do. some use epoxy on neck components for that reason. I used to do just that, but had an epoxy joint fail once and now go with Titebond for it all. BTW I and others around here have tested The titebond bonds after only a few hours of clamp up and found it plenty strong enough to handle normal woodworking handling. It is not fully cured, but nearly so and joints don't close any tighter by staying under pressure longer, nor do they fail under typical workshop activity.

Carry on!

SR

Thanks... I may have messed up anyways, I won't be sure until tomorrow, but my joint was fine under finger pressure, then when clamped suddenly there was a gap, less than a mm and only in one place...

Not sure if it's going to be a problem yet but I'm worried it will be and I'll have to start over. I'll test it out tomorrow night after the 24 hours by adusting the truss rod and seeing what happens... Really hope it's not as bad as it seems now since I do have pencil lines which could be making it look bigger. Just not looking forward to having to get the truss rod out if it's bad. (Nor looking forward to doing it all over again.)

Thanks,

Mike.

23 minutes ago, ScottR said:

It won't hurt you to clamp that fretboard up and put away for the night. It sounds like you stayed up way too late working on it last night.

Yeah I should really be patient... It's only an 18 hour difference and I know how this glue works, I'm using Titebond I btw! I would Imagine Titebond polyurethane is better than Gorilla... Maybe only marginally though as I have used the Titebond polyurethane with success, BUT your joints have to be PERFECT or you end up with a thin, weak, bubbly layer which takes little effort to break. Plus the amount of dampening on the second piece required for curing can be a tricky thing to get right... Too much, it cures to fast and is brittle... Too little and it's weak. I've got it down to a pretty decent level, But you're right, the yellow stuff is the right stuff for the job, I don't know what I was thinking. That could've been a bad time... Thanks for the yellow vs. polyurethane reasoning you may very well have stopped me making a huge mistake! Plus on reflection I don't think the polyurethane takes stain/oil very well either... And I may be going for an oiled finish lol.

Seriously, thank you!

Mike.

16 minutes ago, ScottR said:

Sweet.

Go with the yellow glue. If your polyurethane glue is like the best seller over here--Gorilla glue --it's pretty useless for building guitars. 

SR

Thanks, Just in time too! I was just getting things together to glue up! It's Titebond polyurethane... Seems to do a good job but saying that I wouldn't know about a stressed joint like on the fingerboard. Better play it safe than be sorry huh! The rest is all yellow glue so might as well stick with that, just takes longer to cure.

Thanks,

Mike.

Part four... The fretboard...

Man this was a pain... I assumed it would be faster but I was in the garage until past midnight after starting about 6PM lol. Part of this was the uber thin bit I was using, I was unsure of how hard I could push it so I stayed VERY conservative at 0.25MM depth of cut and around 150-300MM a minute for the most part. As I was doing the inlay at past midnight and my router is loud I decided to ramp it up to 750MM a minute, I sacrificed a tiny bit of accuracy but the bit coped just fine so next time it'll go faster.

The roughing/levelling passes...

This took a while as I had a piece of stock about 10MM thick that had to be levelled and thicknessed both sides.

The finishing pass/Radius... This went well with only light sanding needed to get rid of the mill marks. (I used a 0.6MM step over per pass.)

The finished radius: I decided to go with 12" as I like my Ibanez guitars fretboards, but I'm not a shredder and with the extra scale length I figured an almost flat fretboard would be uncomfortable for me to play but I also didn't want to stray too far from what I'm used to.

Unfortunately this was the closest to quarter-sawn I had so It'll have to do. You can barely see the mill marks which was good for me though as I really dislike sanding...

Inlay and fret slotting!

The inlay took forever... If I recall correctly it was about an hour and 20 minutes! (I was going really slow as it was my first go with a tiny bit and I didn't want to mess it up after all the work to get to this point... I now know I can go alot faster...)

The fret slots also took over an hour.

The inlay: This was after midnight so I went as fast as I could bare to... Fully expecting to snap a bit and have to do this the next day at a more reasonable time, But to my surprise it took the 750MM a minute extremely well!

And after planing the excess off of the back and sanding the inlays free...

They were a pain to get free and being so thin and delicate I was sure I'd break one. But I took my time and all went well!

The fretboard and neck... Just to see if all lined up well, and it did!

No idea what finish to use on the fretboard to stop my finger-grime destroying the pristine maple yet though... Needs to be tough and non-yellowing as I'd like the maple to stay maple-y as long as possible. Any suggestions?

Finished inlay! You can see a ever so slight gap in the inlay (Filled with dust and CA glue) due to the loss of accuracy from the extra speed on the CNC... Sawing those slots was scary to say the least after the inlay was in, Not something I want to do again, or at least not in the same way! (I forgot to clean the dust from the slots after sanding the inlay flush and turns out black walnut dust and CA glue make a damned hard mix...)

Anyway... Turns out my CNC isn't quite calibrated properly... Instead of 28" (711.20MM) the scale length is 710.00MM or 27.95blahblahblah".

I can work with that, 1.2MM isn't enough for me to worry about, the frets are all perfect in that scale.

Now to glue it on... (Not sure yet if I'll use standard yellow glue or polyurethane...)

Thanks,

Mike.

Looking good! It's not the sort of look I'd normally be into but there's just something about it... 

And with the wastage... It looks like a fair amount so you could always salvage it for headstock plates?

Mike.

21 minutes ago, ScottR said:

Likewise, welcome Mike. And like Andy says, this may be your first guitar, but it is obviously not your first day in the wood shop. Good looking build you've got going there. And I like the tribute to your dog.

They do indeed...

SR

Thank you, It is indeed not my first day in the shop lol... I think my clothes are more dust than fabric at this point in my life!

Taz was an awesome dog, so good natured and loving, she would literally scream and slam into everything with excitement when you got home! That was one of the hardest things to get used to not being there anymore, but I have her paw print tattooed on my hand so she'll always be with me, and 2 years later we're still finding her fur everywhere. (I think she's trying to make sure we never forget, not that we could!)

I have multiples of this guitar designed in different scale lengths, I was thinking about calling this "run" (For lack of a better word... And considering it's my first build maybe a tad optimistic) Taz.

Mike.

8 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

Hi Mike and a warm welcome! 

Some impressive woodworking skills on show here .  Watching with great interest.  

I hadn't realised that Staind used baritones.  Was it a baritone used on 'It's been a while' ?

Thank you for the welcome and the complement! There was indeed multiple baritone tracks on 'It's Been A While' as well as standard acoustic. If memory serves, it's Eb for the acoustic and Drop Db on the top five strings with a low Ab on top. (Ab,Db,Ab,Db,Gb,Bb). (As with most songs on Break The Cycle, but it differs on some tracks with some really odd tunings)

Mike.