Hydrogeoman

So does this look like about the right amounth of buffing compound?

I keep asking because the Stewmac instructions says that too little compound can cause heat build-up that drag the finish of the instrument.

Good question that I have not really seen a definative answer for. FWIW as I am pretty new to the buffing deal, I use the Stewmac arbor buffer (runs at 860 rpm) with the Menzerna fine and extra fine compounds. For me, I have found the best results (on nitro lacquer finishes) lightly loading the buff by holding the compound bar on the wheel for no more than 3 seconds with light pressure. Loading more than this usually causes the compound to buildup on the guitar surface which then has to be wiped off with a damp cotton cloth. I usually load the buff with a single compound no more than 3 or 4 times for a complete guitar. While buffing, I apply extremely light pressure to the guitar. At 860 rpm you really won't have any burn problems by applying light pressure and by keeping the workpiece constantly moving.

As for reaching into the cutouts, I get in as close as I can by angling the guitar without hitting the steel washers and arbor nuts, then finish up by hand. I learned the hard way not to try an get the guitar too close to the spinning metal parts

Also, I both the fine and extra fine compounds do very little to nothing to remove scratches. That being said, I have been wet sanding with micromesh cloth backed "sand paper" starting with 1800, 3200, 4000, 6000, and 8000. I am thinking of trying some additional buffs with coarser compound to see if I can eliminate some of the labor involved going through all the various grits of micromesh.

Good luck! - gpp

sanding between frets is definately tedious...that is why if i am using a finish with good "burn in" between coats,i will spray the final coat on the fretboard with it laying flat,so i can make the coat "wetter" and it will self level without sagging.it is possible to get the coat level enough to only need buffing even with the guitar hanging,but i am not that good yet.

Wes, I am trying to do that very thing right now. I mixed a batch of 4 parts thinner to 1 part lacquer and layed down a wet coat with the neck laying flat. It has sat for about a half an hour now and I can still see sanding scratches. I am going to continue shooting the wet "melt in" coats every hour or so today until I don't see anymore scratches. Then hopefully I can minimize or eleminate any more sanding.

That is my plan unless any pros have other suggestions.

Cheers

as far as orange peel goes , i find your wrong, you dont have to agree with me ,and obviossly wont,

orange peel (or 'fish eyes') is from contanimates;

thick coats only (ime) leaves drips; if it is too thick and dries too fast you might get blushing; and/or (if this is what YOU call orange peel) trapped air will come out when its started to cure leaving pinholes in the finish;

is that what you are talking about? cause thats from the finish being cold(er than the wood)

I typically call a finish that has a consistent pattern reminiscent of the peel of an orange, orange peel. Call me conventional.

But seriously, you can find me wrong, find me attractive, find me insolent. I don't care. However, until you know I'm wrong, I'd suggest you save both your breath and some embarrassment.

Telling someone who knows nothing about a subject the wrong thing is much worse than telling them nothing at all.

+1 Fish eyes and orange peel are entirely different animals. Not to bash you LEF but you may want to check these essential readings out to get a handle on terms, etc.

The Bible on Finishing

and

Dan's Book

Who said you had to sand between the frets after coating the fb with lacquer? Its not really necessary. I normally do it with poly. Spray it on, let it dry, scrape the finish off the frets. You have the option to polish but otherwise it should be a done deal.

So far, I have not been able to achieve a dead flat surface after I spray the nitro lacquer, thus the sanding. Hopefully, my spraying will improve with more practice and the finish will not require any leveling.

320 is plenty fine...but i think you most likely did not move through the grits properly...or did not sand with the grain

i sanded my exploder board to 220,and there are no visible scratches at all.

You are right Wes, I was mistaken. The scratches are in the lacquer. I concentrated on sanding between the 1st and 2nd frets tonight starting with 1800 through 6000 micromesh and it was looking pretty good until I sanded through the finish. Dang! Guess I will be shooting more lacquer this weekend.

So now my question is, what grit do I need to take the lacquer to before I can switch to my buffer? I have an the arbor buffer (like the Stewmac one) with Menzerna fine and very fine compounds. It seems like you need to sand to a very fine grit with these compounds, so if I were to use say a Meguires #2 polish with a foam pad before the the buffing compounds, what grit would I need to sand to?

I find sanding between the frets extremely tedious, so I am just looking to optimize the process and still have it looking perfect in the end.

Cheers - G

I have a maple fretboard I am finishing and I am disappointed with the results so far. It seems that I did not sand the raw wood with fine enough grit and it shows the scratches plainly in the lacquer finish.

What grit do you take your maple fretboards down to typically? I went to 320 grit but I think this is too coarse to not show through the clear finish. Thoughts?

Thanks

Greg

Would there be any benefit, in addition to doing the normal shielding in the control cavity and pickup cavities, to shield the inside of a plastic pickup cover? I have a P-90 with the dog ear cover (LP Jr). The pole pieces would not be covered by the shielding but the rest of the PU would. Has anybody tried this or is this just a knucklehead idea?

Thanks for any input

I purchased a refurb Delta from Tool King about 8 years ago (just about identical to this if not the same model)

Delta 6" Jointer

It is heavy and the infeed and outfeed tables are dead flat. Great value.

This is the tenative shape for this one.

Design

Nice selection of woods. I like the "Ritterish" design, it is very similar to a build I have on the drawing board right now.

What software did you use to draw up your design? I would like to move into the realm of computer aided drawing from just sketching on paper, but I am nowhere near being a computer geek and I need something with a relatively easy learning curve (and low cost).

Cheers,

Greg

Mattia,

If I may, Your solution is far too straight forward and simple. Maybe you could try harder to make your suggestions a little more complicated.

+1 Thanks for that pic Mattia! I know what I am going to be working on this weekend! (large scale version)

I love this forum!

Wow, I could not live without my bandsaw. To me it is a required "luxury." Resawing would be very wasteful without it. Then again I could not live without my tablesaw, jointer, planer, oscillating belt/spindle sander, drill pr..... I am a tool junkie. I appreciate the minimalist approach, but for me having just the right tool makes the experience the most fun.

I route after the body shape is cut. I use a variation on David Myka's neck pocket jig - it is awsome and well worth the effort to build.

Myka's neck pocket jig

I like your guitar, but I am puzzled why you went to such lengths to add a stainless steel veneer only to cover most of it with paint. Seems you could have achieved almost the same relic finish without the metal plates.

I have one of these guns. I bought it on sale for $14. It's cheap and works fine......

I have this same gun and it never did work well enough to spray a guitar. I also have the HF "mini" version of this gun with a 4 or 6 oz cup on it (I think). Picked it up for about $12 and it sprays just fine. Like what was stated before, I think it is pretty much hit or miss on the quality control, but if you get one that works, they are servicable for shooting guitars.

I have since upgraded to a CA Technologies mini HVLP gun:

CAT mini jet

but it has been too cold around these parts to spray, so I can't give any review notes yet.

29-36 fret bolt-on's going further into the body.

Jon, WOW! That bass is a monster. What made you decide to go with a bolt-on vs. a set neck?

They don't do much to pet shop bones aside from drying and preservation. I had no success at finding any suitable bones in most of the pet shops I visited. They did have some smoked bones (leg joints) wrapped in plastic, with plenty of meat on them (mmmmmm..). Dogs just love to chew the fat, don't they? I guess the local butcher would be the answer. Fresh bones can be bought, yes, w/ plenty o' meat on them , make soup and then cut up the bones for nuts and acoustic bridge saddles.

More bone talk here: http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.php?showtopic=28484

Thanks Southpa! I think I am on the right track now. The soup bones I picked had a lot of solid bone from the leg below the joint. I should be able to get a number of usable blanks from a $2 package of bones.

...... The fact he sells EVERY guitar he finishes, within a couple weeks, says to me he is on to something. Can you say the same thing about your guitars?? Sure, you may not like it, but someone out there is sick of the usual mahogany/maple/alder/ash combinations, and will fall in love with that guitar. He is making a living doing something you can only dream of, good luck to him.

Exactly Perry. You may not like his hype (I don't), designs, etc., but a lot of you guys hating on him and comparing his skills with Litch is over the top IMO (OMG, I feel sorry for Litch because he just plain lacks talent). Granted, the flaws in wood and other "features" that Z views as "desireable" does not fly with a lot of the traditionalists around here, but there is something to be said for attracting a player that wants something different and finds it in this guy's guitars.

I have used dried cow bones from a pet supplier but never from raw bones. You have raised a good question. I would guess they would need to be cooked so make some soup and set them out to dry. LOL

Hmmm, never thought of looking at the pet shop. So were the pet shop bones as dense (free of voids) as the blanks you can get from luthier supply outlets?

Ok, I want to make my own bone nut blanks. My question: are the bone blanks you get from a supplier, e.g., Stewmac, cooked (boiled) or is the bone cured by air drying only?

I bought some nice dense beef soup bones from the grocery store today and I am trying to decide if I can make my soup first or do I need to dedicate the bone to guitar building only Anybody tried this?

Cheers

Greg

Thanks Matt! You are the man!

Cheers

Greg

Check out Jay5's excellent plans

Clicky

I built mine similar to Jay's and it works like a charm for just about any desired radius.

you might have heard about the way nitro reacts with the foam rubber often used on guitar stands etc. these can leave nasty marks on nitro finishes

Yeah, this makes sense. The capo I bought has foam rubber where it contacts the back of the neck, thus the warning label on the box it came in.

Well, i know how they do the colours in the body, so i know whats involved. I can assure you, it is very very expensive, especially compared to a "basswood" body. The machining of the material is much slower so it takes up more CNC time. Sure, the engineering of the body shape is not unique (screw holes etc are different diameters meaning all new programs), but the thousands of man hours put in to achieve this special finish, test it under extreme conditions, and then replicate it hundreds of times over, AND stand behind your product in every country in the world, DOES cost money. And its not some joe bloggs doing the testing, its engineers, designers, etc on big salaries. The assemblers need to be retrained. The buffing team need to do things differently. The marketing team needs to research and modify ads. The case candy is different, the distros need to be informed, etc etc etc. This ALL costs more money.

No mass production company will ever produce one off's at the same price as the standard models, its is ridiculous to even consider it. The raw materials for this guitar woudl effectively DOUBLE the entire cost of building the complete guitar, REGARDLESS of other 'man hour' costs. Why should Ibanez NOT make a killing on this? Why should they make excuses for earning a living?

The fact that Ibanez is the size it is, and have the followers they do, means they can do whatever they like, and price it however they see fit. Same goes for all the majors. Thats their right, and they have damn well earnt it. You, the consumer can disagree all you like, but they WILL sell these guitars.

PS i think its funny that a BCRich or Ibanez with a plastic body is "crap", yet a 'vintage' Dan Armstrong "sounds good".

Dang Perry, finally, out of the thousand or so posts I have read of yours (and argued with you) I agree with you 100% on this one

I suspect, that at this price point, Ibanez will not make a killing or even much of a profit. Mass appeal was not the idea behind the guitar - it is a marketing tool, not a product to make profit.

Cheers

Greg

I have heard that nitro cellulose finishes are easily damaged when placed in contact with polymeric material, i.e., plastic.

How much, if any, of a problem has this been for you builders that shoot nitro and use plastic pickguards? Do you have to use a nitro cellulose pickguard? I am assuming if there is damage it is confined to the area under the pickguard. What form and to what degree is the damage? Do you apply a paper backing or other shielding on the back of your pickguards to create a barrier between the two materials?

I hope these aren't dumb questions , but the guitars I am currently working on all have nitro finishes and will all have plastic pickguards. I never gave it any consideration before until I did some reading in Bob Flexnor's book "Understanding Wood Finishes" and then I saw a warning label on a capo I just purchased stating the same.

Thanks for any experiences you can share.

Cheers

Greg

I am not following your thought process Wes. It seems that by the time you are ready for the hand sanding, you would not want something agressive. I find when I am ready to hand sand, my RO sander with the rubber backing is TOO aggressive unless I use a very fine grit (Abralon is great stuff - see Drak's testamonials).

If tearout is a concern, have you looked at drum sanders in leu of a thickness planer? Something like this:

Drum Sander

If you find a way to avoid hand sanding - patent the idea!

Cheers

Greg