Robert Irizarry

No, I didn't mean the neck angle, just that because of the thicker body, the neck and stings are further from your belly, if you like. That was something that the Coco had designed into it, and was perhaps eluded to in these earlier quotes by Mickguard...

Maybe a thicker guitar--like a hollowbody--will be more comfortable for you?

In fact, these days I really prefer the super-tall string height (i.e., clearance from the body) of my guitar. I wonder if there's anything ergonomic about that? Seems really comfortable to me, in terms of wrist position/fatigue...

You get what I mean...perhaps a little back angle as you say, but mainly I was talking about the strings being out further from you, forcing the playing hands a little further out...or perhaps it's just me...

I like the smaller acoustics cause I don't want to have to wrap my arms right around them and I just like the look and tight sound I guess. Not too slim like an electro though, mine is 90mm deep for instance...a pretty standard guitar...but it feels a little more natural to play somehow, especially the picking hand... Also, it is a wider body so sits up a little more, being tall some electrics can seem a little dinky sitting down...maybe I should switch to a 355 or something! pete

I've been struggling with your idea of moving the strings further out. I guess its a matter of perspective. My Hohner/Steinberger "broom" (think original Steinberger shape) is very compact and lets me keep my hands close to me so that I'm not reaching out. I find this comfortable. What I don't find comfortable is the lack of right arm support and that the body is too narrow. I also own an Applause acoustic (round back - less expensive version of the Ovation) and I had some pain from reaching around the body to get at the strings. Right now my brain suggests that thinner would be a better way to go for me. It would keep my hands close to my body and further reduce the guitar's weight. I started thinking along these lines about a month ago after coming across the Black Machine site. If you haven't seen these, take a look. These are super thin guitars - just over an inch thick. My only question is how they manage to maintain the integrity of the neck body joint with a bolt-on. It doesn't seem to leave a lot of material to work with.

Out of production since 2002.

Unfortunately I caught an allergy against the productional materials carbon fibre and epoxy resin.

I'm not surprised. The main culprit is epoxy. Boat builders use it and the smart ones take great precautions against letting it touch their skin or inhaling its fumes. People have worked with it for years without incident and suddenly become sensitized to it. Once you start getting the reaction, it doesn't go away.

...the dramatically shaped body, which is carved from a pear wood and covered with a mixture of epoxy foam impregnated with carbon, glass, and cotton fiber. The result is lightweight stucture with a matte-textured surface that feels a bit like suede leather.

The lightweight coco is exceptionally balanced and comfortable. Its deeply arched back conforms to your body like a recaro sports car seat, and the lightly textured surface provides a mild grip against your clothing. Though the neck is perched rather high off the body. your left hand falls very naturally onto the silky maple fretboard, and the space between the body and neck provides unusually easy access to the highest frets. Few guitars play this sleek!

This last point is interesting...I do find that on a parlour acoustic (the size I prefer) the neck being out from the body, instead of virtually parrallel with it, provides for less fatigue and a better playing angle for the hand. The use of a textured body (suede!) to provide grip to the body is also another interesting consideration in the ergonomics equation. Still though, the bridge looks too far back...

I've also been thinking about the texture issue as well. One of the problems in sitting position is keeping the guitar in position without expending alot of energy to do so. Textured surfaces can go a long way toward combating this.

I also agree that part of the issue for a taller person can be a result of a body that is too short - not enough body behind the bridge and not enough support for the picking arm.

Oh yeah - interesting headless! I'm curious about your tuning mechanism and head piece. Any pictures of those two areas?

Bit of a huge bump here, I've been working on some other projects (stomp boxes and in-guitar LEDs) and have neglected my poor pickups.

Just came across this thread - interesting idea. I don't think I have the courage for something like this. I'd probably go with the stacked humbucker and fake coil that was suggested. I'm curious to hear how this sounds as I'm sure are others on the thread. Hope you can post an mp3 at some point.

Now that's something that we could use a tutorial on - structuring search engine queries! One of our biggest problems with people not searching the archives around here is the fact that I'll wager 90% of our newer members couldn't find what they needed anyway! If you have the time and the inclination, your expertise would be highly valued!

I would certainly consider putting together something once I get a better feel for the particulars of the forum's search engine. I'm pretty new to the mix here and each search engine has its nuances. I'll play around and see what I can come up with - like being aware of the flood control feature.

I had the idea of a drift wood guitar body (still on the list of "want to do" guitars). I investigated the sandblaster method and it worked pretty well. Another method is to use a rotating wire brush in a drill. Used along the grain it makes it look like a realy old worn piece of wood. That method worked better on ash.

Ok - time for a clarification. I wasn't being clear about what I meant (probably because I wasn't so sure myself )

I thought about it some more and I guess what I'm thinking about is a way to create a knurl pattern on wood either crosshatched or straight. I suppose a router bit with some type of template would let me accomplish that? Maybe I answered my own question?

Can anyone suggest tools and/or methods for texturing wood? I'm looking for a way to create a bit of a course texture on a relatively flat surface. The caveat is that as of this moment, I have no identifiable woodworking skills so I'm trying to find out if there is a relatively painless method to do so... :-)

Thanks!

Looks pretty smick Rhoads.

Off topic here, but oh well. Robert, you don't know Dan Irizarry from Australia by any chance?

Probably not, but meh. He has one of those funny Australian-American hybrid accents, so it was a possibility.

Nope. It's funny though. I grew up thinking it was a unique last name but ever since high school I started meeting Irizarry's or hearing of them. It happens more often that I would have ever thought. I've even heard there is a soap star named Irizarry. I haven't checked out the family tree but I do know two things - its a name of Basque origin and apparently I had a busy globe trotting ancestor.

A guitar I aways liked the idea of was the Ovation Breadwinner...

I actually played in a band and the rhythmn guitarist had one of these. It felt good to play, but the plastic bridge seemed an odd choice of hardware, and the neck was poorly supported (bit like rubber) especially as it was pretty slim, especially for back then...

I like the Ovation Breadwinner as well and you can certainly see where Klein "borrowed" some of its elements. Sorry - I had to throw that in. I've been on a Klein Guitar group over at Yahoo and the reverence for the Klein is a bit much at times. Its a great design overall from an ergonomic perspective but not as entirely original as some of the Klein worshippers might indicate. After all, there aren't many things that can be called completely original.

But, I digress. Did you get a chance to try it sitting down? Was it much different than say a Strat type body?

I love Zachary's headstock design...look for a 'borrowed' version of that for my next guitar!

Robert, I think a problem you might have, if you really are a beginning guitar player, is that it's going to be hard to know what's going to fit you properly. Have you gone down to a guitar mega store and tried on various guitars for fit?

Seems to me if you have back problems, you're going to want to avoid hunching over your guitar --a wider body is going to force you to maintain a straight back and proper posture. Although the Klein design seems to work in that direction too.

Interesting thread.

The Zachary headstock design is definitely one I would want to pay "homage" to as well.

I've considered my beginner guitar status as well. I guess I should backfill a bit here. Back in my early 20's I took some lessons and I made a little progress. I also had a number of musician friends and owned a Strat Plus. I didn't stick with it very long (another story) but during that time I got a chance to try a number of guitars including a Gibson SG, several acoustics, a couple of Strat style designs, etc. I also used to haunt the guitar shops on 48th Street in Manhattan - Sam Ash, Manny's Music etc. Based on this, I think I have a fair idea of what I'm looking to accomplish.

As far as the back problems, I completely agree that a wider body is the way to go. The Klein certainly fits the bill. So as far as basic design elements, the guitar should have a wide body as well as sufficient support for the right arm.

Hmmm...nice link there Robert Irizarry...pitty it's in french...still, easy enough to follow the diagrams.

I will be using some pics from that site on pickup magnetic field shapes in the sustainer thread!!!

You seem to have a knack for finding the unusual and interesting sites...thankx... pete

P.S. Here's one for you...just about every pickup combination and wiring diagram and more...DGB Studio Site

With your broad interest in this type of thing, I suspect well be meeting up on the monster DIY Sustainer thread some time...lol

If you scroll down a bit, you'll see that good portions of the site are in English - more than enough to get by.

Finding unusual sites is a specialty of mine. That's the windows engineer part of me. I've worked on and currently work on some rather complex systems where you need to have the ability to locate and piece bits of information from all over the place. I've become quite adept at using search engines to dig up information. If you ever have any requests, let me know.

And, thanks for the site link - excellent stuff! I'm new to the electronics side of things as well so I'll be chewing through this site for a while.

Oh and the sustainer thread sounds interesting too. Oh well. I guess I won't get any work done today...

I love the inlay - very unique! I've never seen anything like that. I'm curious about the metal flake (forgive me I'm new at this) but how durable is that going to be? I'm familiar with the use of more traditional inlay materials but...

Thanks!

P.S. I hate that append feature as well. Hoping for an answer myself.

You have been asking some interesting questions and generating some interest...but best of all, thanks for showing me this...

Thanks for the encouraging words, psw! I'm an inquisitive person and this forum really revs up that aspect of my personality. I also want to take a moment to thank everyone for the great feedback to my questions.

As far as Zachary Guitars, he does have some very cool ideas. I also really like the simple headstock and just his general attitude toward what a guitar should be - it should serve the music. If you've read any of his "tirades", he is not a fan of fancy topped guitars primarily because he believes it takes away the focus from the guitar's raison d’être as they say. However, he can appreciate beautiful woods so long as the other elements are there. Warning though - he can be a bit tough to take for those who prefer a more politically correct attitude. You'll find none of that there.

I like the idea of a chambered guitar as a means of reducing overall weight. Its on my list of possible features.

I think you're absolutely right about playing with critical dimensions. I'm also on the tall side (6'3") with an even longer reach so many guitars feel as though they don't give me the right arm support I need. Add chronic back problems for years and the somewhat stiff fingers of a 38 year old (almost 39) trying to learn guitar and I have a few things to consider.

oh and what a cute cat!

The Surfcaster is where its at! What a nice job and I love how all the elements come together in a subtle way. I'm also a bit tired of all the maple tops - they're nice but it seems they're everywhere. You've got my vote!

Air guitars are the most comfortable. I wish I still had mine, but I ended up selling it to my imaginary friend.

Since I'm fast approaching 39, I'd probably look silly wielding one of those comfortable as they are. Of course, the advantages are that I don't really need to focus on my guitar playing skills and it can look anyway I want.

Yeah, but that electric is one ugly guitar...amateur design if you ask me (did you ask? I don't remember )

You didn't have to ask! Jeez - you are not kidding. I sure hope my first electric looks better than that otherwise its going to be firewood. Oh and did you happen to look at the comments regarding neck width at the nut? And, I quote- "we intend to make the nut 1 11/16" wide and most often it is right-on! But it will be acceptable to send out to a dealer if it is as narrow as 1 5/8" or as wide as 1 3/4". " Wha...?

The problem with buying a cheap neck is that you'll end up with a guitar with a...cheap neck.

With all the work and effort that goes into making a guitar, it's kind of a shame to end up with something that's going to be less than great.

Your modification will essentially consist of chopping off the neck's head? I don't see any problem with that--there's not a huge risk of screwing up the neck itself, right?

As much as you distrust ebay (with good reason!), there are tons of necks available, many of them new and many from trustable sellers. I've seen a number of headless necks too, although they're rarer...I think there was a headless graphite neck up a couple of weeks ago?

Another option would be to buy a beater guitar with a decent neck, and just remove that.

Or buy a guitar with a neck you like and reshape the body according to your own design.

I agree that a cheap neck will give me a cheap neck. However, here's why I would prefer this path. For one, I would like to build up a "proof of concept" and the reason for that is my second reason. I have NO pre-existing skills in this area except for use of some basic handtools and a drill. I'm handy around the house having installed and fixed a number of things but this is my first foray into anything resemblng/requiring woodworking skills. Apart from a general aptitude with the few tools I've held, I have patience and caution on my side. I'm willing to take my time and I tend to measure and measure again.

Brian C., however, has saved the day for me. I got a hold of him last night and it turns out he has a new neck with a broken headstock that he is selling me for CHEAP! I'm psyched. I guess I'm approaching commitment level with this project. :-) I'll leave that for a separate thread...

I've seen nothing that beats the standard strat yet. Its contoured to fit your body while in standing or sitting position. No sharp edges to cut off circulation or wear down. You can carve and carve a guitar body to find the best ergonomic "recipe" for the human body, where comfort and function are concerned, ... and I'll bet ya it will look like a strat.

Sorry. I owned a Strat. Sounded great and I love the Strat sound but its not the solution I'm looking for. Take a look at the examples I give in my original post and you'll see that I'm looking at something a bit more radical than the tried and true Strat.

I'm looking for sources of decent but cheap guitar necks. I'm working up the courage to start my own first build but I'd like to start with a neck that I won't cry over if I ruin it. I'm looking at a headless design so there will be some "modification" involved.

BTW - Please no ebay. Ebay gives me a rash. I'm not looking to buy someone else's problem. I'd rather pay for my own problem fresh from the factory. Thanks!

Man, I love builders like this...all the ideas they come up with!

Like the recessed tuner idea--I'd been wondering about the idea of making a thicker headstock, and why that's not generally done. Nice idea with the aluminum string-through plate in the back...much easier that way.

The longer horn is there to balance the guitar when standing, according to the site...you'd definitely need a leg rest for a design like that, but I'm starting to think that a leg rest might always be a pretty good idea--much better than having to brace the guitar to keep it from slipping.

Although I think you can achieve a similar or even better result by adding a rubber non-skid strip to the bottom of the guitar.

I like the use of the leg rest on this guitar although the Klein solves the situation through its shape - granted its an unusual shape. My Hohner headless is of the "broom" variety and has a leg rest that flips out. Its not too bad for sitting in classical position. Steinberger was going for low profile otherwise I think a more suitable leg rest could have been made.

And, yeah, I think the thick headstock with recessed tuners is a pretty cool idea. You eliminate a potential weak point in the neck and still stay away from string trees.

I wouldn't call either the Delta Wing or the Parker particularly 'ergonomic'; the Kramer doesn't look like it has anywhere to rest comfortably on your leg, and the parker Fly's upper horn seems designed to poke you in the ribs if you play sitting down. A strat's more comfortable, honestly.

The Klein (ie, lima bean on a stick) is all about comfort, and is smart in all the right ways. The aesthetics are a 'like it or hate it' thing, though.

There's some company out there that makes a twisted neck/fingerboard guitar that's supposedly for ergonomic reasons.

I didn't think the Parker qualified as ergonomic except for its low weight. That horn didn't strike me as particularly comfortable either.

The Delta Wing has a leg rest that looks like it might put the guitar at a good angle while sitting - not all the pictures on the site show the leg rest but here's one that does: Kramer Wing with Leg Rest. I have my doubts about that elongated upper horn.

The Klein seems to be the one most adapted to this purpose and it is certainly a "like it or hate it" aesthetic. That said, I'm a techie so the whole "form follows function" mantra has meaning for me. My eyes may not like it all that much but the rest of my body just might.

I've seen that twisted neck/fingerboard thing too - the Helix Twisted Neck System. It seems that at some point the neck was available as an aftermarket item but I haven't seen it.

http://www.dawn2dusk.org/2004/gallery/inde...6&cat=hear&tr=C

Simply, WOW. That is something else. I'm not at the point of building a seat into my guitar(!) but it sure shows commitment to playing. Hell, I'm just learning myself...

I say mess around with some cheap pine to make a (non-functional) prototype instrument that fits YOUR ergonomic sensibilities. Then build it for real.

I don't disagree. I discovered Project Guitar once I started researching the idea of building a guitar myself. I've done quite a bit of research over the last couple of months so I've got some ideas. However, I wanted to benefit from the experience contained in this Forum. Afterall, that is one of the reasons we're here - to learn from each other.

Sweet looking design and I'm with you - go with the black. I like figured woods but I'm not sure they fit the stripped down look of a metal inspired guitar. Metal is more "industrial".

I was curious about the sweep at the bottom of the guitar. Was it just something that you thought look good for the overall design (I agree with that) or is there a functional reason? I'm just wondering since there is a bass thread elsewhere with a similar scoop done to facilitate playing in classical position.

Can't wait to see more...

I was wondering which guitars or even features everyone has encountered that might be deemed "ergonomic"? I've suffered from back problems for many years so this is an important consideration for me. Proper sitting position and overall weight come to mind as important factors. For example, I own a Hohner headless guitar in the style of the original Steinberger "broom". Weight is ok and it works well for classical position (if you're a rightie, the guitar sits on the left leg and the neck is at about a 45 degree angle) but it lacks any support for the right arm. Some of the guitars I'm already familiar with are the Klein Electric Guitars and the newer Kramer Delta Wing. What other ideas are out there that would be within the realm of an amateur builder?

Hey Quebec people,

I was wondering if theres any shop around Montreal to work on guitars ???

I dont care if it costs something, I need a shop !!!

Thanks

I believe Wilkat Guitars is in your neck of the woods. He does some beautiful custom guitar work (by the pictures on his page) and also performs repairs and mods from what I gather. I would give him a try.

BTW - I have no direct experience with him. I've heard good things about him on other forums and I considered approaching him about a custom until I discovered Project Guitar.

Block Inlays

Hmmm... those blocks don't look right to me. Is it just me? Did you try those?

I did find an ebay source for plastic inlays pretty cheap and good quality but I really want MOP. I can't see myself spending all this time and effort and end up using pastic to save 20bucks.

They didn't look quite right to me either but as marksound points out you wanted options. This situation reminds me of a post I came across by Ormsby about the decision to make or buy a particular component during a build. You have to weigh the relative pain of making your own vs. paying $40 for what you know will suit your purpose. Don't get me wrong. I can appreciate cost cutting but you also have to factor in frustration factor, long term benefit from doing this yourself, etc. Personally, I would go with marksound's recommendation and buy them from Stew Mac. They're a reputable dealer and their prices may not be the best but I haven't found them to be completely out of line. You also know that you will get a usable product.

I have to agree with Mattia. From what I understand, whether or not you profit has little to do with infringement. If you do profit, you certainly open yourself to more of an opportunity. However,the owner can deem, for example, that you damaged his or her property in some way and sue you. Money need not change hands. Whether or not the Star Wars franchise looks the other way at fan works is another thing.

I came across this article which I thought was quite helpful - 10 Big Myths about Copyright Explained. Hope you find it helpful as well.

In addition to the advice you've gotten already, I also came across this page, Modifications and Mods by Torres Engineering which contains a number of helpful diagrams regarding tone related modifications. This is where I found a solution regarding a question I had regarding variable coil splitting.

Hope this helps.

I was going to suggest minihumbuckers too, they'd look pretty great. Mount them from behind (heh heh) and only show the tops.

Another alternative would be to craft your own wood covers --have a look at the tang top progress thread, the garehanman is doing an excellent job on a set for his guitar. You could modify the idea by making your covers long enough to cover the wings (of a humbucker). If the fit is accurate enough, you'd be able to push the covers down into the cavity, no need for screws. Could look really cool.

Thanks for the ideas - Minihumbuckers mounted from behind ( ), custom covers... I'll revisit the tang top progress thread. That is some really nice work. I had noticed the covers but it hadn't occurred to me as a solution.

Thanks again!