Foggy

That's a really neat job you've done on that guitar body, should be a very nice looking guitar when you've finished it. All credit to you spending the time you've obviously spent on this so far and for doing such a neat job at 16 years old. Wish I'd had the patience to do something like that when I was 16!!

Well done and keep it up

Jim

looks good... isn't that the same shape as the one Vinnie Vincent (ex Kiss/ Vinnie Vincent Invasion) ???

It is. It was the first guitar I ever saw when I first turned on MTV when I was a kid in '86 (the "Boyz Are Gonna Rock" video). I wanted to play guitar from that day... when I decided I wanted a new guitar, that V came to mind. I couldn't find/afford an original one (they only made 28)... so I made my own. You're the first guy to figure out whose guitar it was... most other people I've shown didn't know who invented it or they thought the twin-V was my idea!

You dont need to grain fill that wood, IIRC, Its poplar or something, which doesnt need to be grainfilled. So you dont have to worry about any epoxy or anything.

It's a two-piece alder body. It has very fine grain, but it does have grain, so I wasn't sure if it required filling.

Interesting seeing how other people would go about this. Having tried epoxy as a grain filler many moons ago I'd advise against using it, one because in my experience it's a pain in the butt to use, and two, because again, in my personal experience, on a guitar body like yours it's totally unnecessary.

I ended up using epoxy where it was needed. I used a hard piece of plastic as a squeegee and spread it very lightly into the grain over the face, back, top/bottoms sides, around the jack input, and on the tips of the V's. Hopefully this makes the wood stronger. There were also a few very small imperfections in the wood grain I wanted to smooth to ensure a nice finish. It really popped the wood grain where I filled, and it's almost a shame to cover such a nice piece of wood with paint.

To answer your question about using automotive primer, yes, automotive primer is perfectly acceptable for use on guitars. Particularly in this case as you're getting it painted by an automotive painter, who'll no doubt be using automotive paints likely of the same paint scheme. With your primer a good tip is, if you're applying a light colour basecoat after priming, ideally use white primer as this makes your bright colours brighter. If you're using a dark colour basecoat, a grey primer is fine.

The main body will be Sonic Blue (a purple/blue chameleon color offered on Ford cars from '03 to '08). The secondary V-fins poking out are going to be some kind of metallic silver. I left the shade of silver up to my paint guy, as long as it's a bright silver.

If your man is a professional car sprayer he should know how to paint and clearcoat anyway, so you shouldn't really have a problem.

This guy does award-winning auto restorations, mainly on late model Mustangs. He knows paint, he was just unsure if auto primer would be suitable for this application as he's never painted a guitar before.

Thanks for all the tips.

-R

Sounds cool .............chameleon paints work really well on V's and by the sound of it you've got the right man doing your paint. Hope you'll post pics of the finished guitar

Jim

Hi guys just would like some opinions and others on this board may benefit as well as to what you guys are using for clearcoating in the 2K range ie acrylic urethanes,poly etc ? I have been using a lacquer and have to admit the shrinkage and drying of this is way too troublesome and I have decided to use the 2K stuff from now on. I understand I have been reading alot about pinhole problems in these and have to say it is worrying me as I don't want more problems but less so fire away guys what clears have you been using and what are the ones to avoid and ones to go for make,brand and type etc, hope some of you may help CHEERS!

Regarding 2k clearcoats, I've been using Octoral C60 with a rapid hardner for some time now and that gives a really great finish. Unfortunately, Octoral have stopped making it now so whilst I've still got a decent stock of the stuff, I've also been trying other brands readily available in the UK for when it runs out. Although I've not used much of it as yet, I have had very good results with a brand called 'Crystal', made by UPD (UK). It goes on nicely and gives a very nice, clear and seemingly very durable finish. My mate who owns the local paint/bodyshop put me onto it and recons it's the best he's ever used, so might be worth a look.

Regarding the pinholes, as syxx say's it's invariably due to too heavy an application and the solvents not being able to escape quickly enough, though it can also be caused through silicon based contaminants. As ihocky says, practice on some gash wood first and you shouldn't have too many problems.

Hope this helps.

Jim

Interesting seeing how other people would go about this. Having tried epoxy as a grain filler many moons ago I'd advise against using it, one because in my experience it's a pain in the butt to use, and two, because again, in my personal experience, on a guitar body like yours it's totally unnecessary.

To answer your question about using automotive primer, yes, automotive primer is perfectly acceptable for use on guitars. Particularly in this case as you're getting it painted by an automotive painter, who'll no doubt be using automotive paints likely of the same paint scheme. With your primer a good tip is, if you're applying a light colour basecoat after priming, ideally use white primer as this makes your bright colours brighter. If you're using a dark colour basecoat, a grey primer is fine.

If it were me painting your guitar, after you'd stripped it of hardware I'd give it a light sanding down to remove any contaminents that might affect the application of the primer, and also to give the primer something to 'key' onto. Then, assuming your going to be applying a solid colour to the guitar, I'd go straight on with the primer coats (applied lightly and slowly built up). Once I'd got a uniform coverage of primer applied over the whole body I'd then wet and dry it back with 800 grade, and if necessary, re-apply more primer coats until such time as the body was perfectly smooth and ready for whatever basecoat/colour your going to apply. It doesn't look like you need to be worrying about filler, but if there were any marks or dings in the woods surface these should be filled during the priming stages (using something like Isopon P40) and sanded perfectly smooth before the final primer coat is applied and wet sanded prior to the basecoat being applied.

It's very easy to make very hard work of prepping guitars for paint by putting in stages that aren't always necessary. Some woods do benefit from grain sealing before priming, but this isn't hard and fast for all woods by any means. Sometimes a coat of clearcoat applied to the wood and sanded back also works perfectly well as a sealer coat. Straight forward painting of guitars is nowhere near as complicated as some folk might like you to believe. Just don't rush through the process, take your time, do it carefully and be totally thorough with your preparation stages. Good preparation is 'THE' key to a good ultimate finish. So until your guitar is perfectly prepped and smooth at the priming stage don't think about applying any paint. If your man is a professional car sprayer he should know how to paint and clearcoat anyway, so you shouldn't really have a problem.

Jim

That is amazing Jim and its nice to see fellow UK members work, it just goes to show you haven't gotta cross the pond to get killer work done! looks like I might have a paintjob to do for me Jim when funds permit.

Thanks Kammo and brcck

Just let me know Kammo and I'll see what I can do

Jim

I've never seen one of these Kramers before.

Well, as you've probably seen in the link, it's because it's not a Kramer.

It's a Gary Kramer guitar. Different brand...

RAI6, Yup, I stand corrected, this is indeed a 'Gary Kramer' guitar and not a 'Kramer', as in a Gibson, Epiphone factory produced Kramer

I'll just toddle off now and hang my head in shame

Jim

Pretty extreme right enough Wish I could get to grips with photoshop like that!

Don't know why, but that design strangely reminds me of the mother-in-law??????

Jim

Wow. Quite a work of art. I've never seen one of these Kramers before. Any info on the original?

IPA or death, here's a link to Kramers specifications page for this guitar.

Kramer 'Kramertorium' Specs

The guitar is very light and the neck is very slim, though the overall finish on this particular guitar was actually pretty poor (straight from the makers). That may possibly have been because they knew I was going to be refinishing it anyway.......... at least, I'd like to think that's the case and that they're not all like this one was. The guitar is so light weight, and the wood used for the body that soft and so easily 'dinged' that it almost feels like balsa wood, again though, this might just due to the guitars shape, very soft basswood not really ideal with those prominent pointy tips!

Other than that it's actually a nice shaped guitar that does grow on you.

Dadovfor, As WezV rightly say's the pickups are directly mounted. That was really the reason the dragon ended up being laid up that way in the design, as you say, with pickup rings it wouldn't have worked out so well.

Jim

and the back jim!!

Thanks for all the positive comments guys, I have to admit I really do kinda like this guitar myself (and that's not always the case!)

WezV, haven't taken a decent picture of the back since it's had the Kanji lettering applied and after the first finish coat, this was taken after the sealer coat was applied over the Samurai figure and rubbed down with 1000 grade wet and dry (so it looks flat). I'll whack a piccy of the back up once I've taken some pictures after clear coating and with the backplates back in place again

Frazer, the white looking circle is the moon, it reflects back a little like a camera flash because it's silver leaf with a transparent white painted over the top, the idea was to give a kinda luminous effect so....... Whooo Hoo...............must be working!

ae3, Yes, been going on a while this one , it's a combination of airbrushing, painting with a brush, gilding, lots of tinted lacquers and very much a case of keeping everything crossed through most of the stages One day I'll hopefully actually know what I'm doing and maybe then the old nerves will get some respite!

Jim

Here's a guitar refinish I've been working on for a while after it's first coat of finish. Really pleased with how this one has come out so far as there's been a lot of experimenting involved. The finish is a bit rough at this stage, but by the time she's completely finished, polished up and the hardware refitted I reckon it'll be one of my best yet..........

As you can probably tell I'm quite pleased with this one!! lol

Jim

Here's an Ibanez Sabre type that was modded and repainted for a Doctor of Physics and rock guitarist (Dr Mark Lewney), who tours schools and university's giving lectures on the physics of acoustics around the UK and abroad.

The original pickup selector switch was changed to give more options (and more space for the artwork). The jack socket was also moved to the back of the guitar body.

Before

After

Jim

Beautiful guitars there Jake................love that blue beastie!

Jim

Just wondering if it is possible to use ink for color (I guess as opposed to dye) for color on a body? I am thinking a pigmented ink would work but, not really sure so I thought I would ask.

Never used ink as a dye, but ink does go under poly finishes without any problem. If you were using it to stain the whole guitar I'm guessing you'd want to be applying it well diluted. The possible problem might be in getting an even coat using inks, as the pigments are pretty strong (particularly on a wood like maple), I'd imagine they might have a tendency to give streaks if you're not careful - but I could be totally wrong on that one!

Your best bet is to just try it out on another piece of junk wood and see how it works

Jim

p.s. if anyone has an answer to my poly over india ink question, please check out that thread, too!

Poly goes fine over acrylic inks, I use them quite regularly and clearcoat over them with no problem at all. I wouldn't imagine india ink would be any different.

Jim

Adding soap to the water, just a drop of oil free soap, will help prevent clogging of the sand paper.

The risk you run is water entering some of the small holes causing the wood to swell and crack your finish. Wet sanding is not always the best option for a guitar.

Interesting, I've heard mention of this problem with using wet sanding on guitars and have to say I've never experienced any problems at all with any of the guitars that I've worked on using wet sanding.

By the time you've applied whatever primer/paint or finish you're then rubbing down with wet and dry, invariably that same primer/paint or finish has also sealed the wood in most small holes on the surface of the guitar anyway. By the time you get to the final stages of wet sanding a finish on a guitar, there will likely be at least two or three coats of paint and primer, plus your finish coat(s), which are more than enough to seal the small holes in the guitar surface. It may be that I've just been very lucky with all the guitars that I've worked on.................but I don't think so.

Jim

I looked at this guitar and the first kinda shape that came to mind for a pickguard was kinda like this. You'll have to excuse my blatant lack of ability with programs like paint shop pro................as is aptly demonstrated here I'm a complete muppet with PSP, but you get the kind of shape I was 'trying' to show.

Jim

ps. that is one 'different' looking guitar you have there avenger! It does kinda grow on you............in a weird kinda way.

hi everyoane i`m new on this forum, if i poste in the wrong place sorry , but i have a question about a guitar finish, here it goes. i bought a second hand ibanez guitar with some big scratches on the body, so i sanded off original finish and i did a satin one.

but still don`t know if the satin finish needs a final clear coat(s)? please help me with some advice. thank you.

If you've sanded back the original finish and properly applied a new satin finish, then there's no need for another finish. It all depends on the finish you've applied, how many coats you've applied, what kind of finish you're hoping to achieve and how well the new finish went on as to whether you need to do more on it. But you'll be the one that knows if the finish looks right or not. It's difficult to comment any further without a bit more detailed info (pictures ideally)of what you've already done.

Jim

thx Jim, i applied like this: primer - 2 coats, black satin paint from a can - 3 coats. at the actual moment the paint is still drying, i put the last coat on feb 8. i thought it will be not to good with 3 coats, but it is very good, better than i expected . the problem is not how i want, i know that, but rather is the satin finish needs to be protected or not with a clear coat?? this is the question that i`ve been asking myself. I have some pictures, but don`t know how to post them in here...

Does the black paint you've used specify the need for a clear or lacquer coat? Some paints don't need clearcoating.

Assuming that it does, if it's a satin finish you're ultimately looking for, then applying clearcoat (I'm thinking here of the lacquers I'm particularly familiar with ie. 2k lacquers) is going to give you a gloss finish. Unless you apply the clearcoat, then wet and dry it back to a pre-polishing smooth finish, say to 2000 wet and dry and just leave it at that. A word of warning though, if you do plan to do that then your clearcoat has to be almost perfect, or you'll be left with any minor imperfections shining out of your matt satin finish. You'll also find that guitars finished like that, particularly the necks, will polish up themselves with use anyway.

It may well be that there are products out there (that others on here will be able to suggest) that are perfect for what you're trying to achieve, so hopefully someone else will chime in and point you in the right direction with this one.

Best of luck with the guitar.

Jim

hi everyoane i`m new on this forum, if i poste in the wrong place sorry , but i have a question about a guitar finish, here it goes. i bought a second hand ibanez guitar with some big scratches on the body, so i sanded off original finish and i did a satin one.

but still don`t know if the satin finish needs a final clear coat(s)? please help me with some advice. thank you.

If you've sanded back the original finish and properly applied a new satin finish, then there's no need for another finish. It all depends on the finish you've applied, how many coats you've applied, what kind of finish you're hoping to achieve and how well the new finish went on as to whether you need to do more on it. But you'll be the one that knows if the finish looks right or not. It's difficult to comment any further without a bit more detailed info (pictures ideally)of what you've already done.

Jim

That is the most amazing inlay work I have ever seen, a word that is used far too often springs instantly to mind and is completely justified in this case................awesome!

Jim

The black resin candles they make for fixing skis and snowboards I've used for stuff like that on cheap guitars before. Your mileage may vary.

I'm going to have to say negative on that one. In order to use this, you need to light it on fire, and drip the flaming drop of melted p-tex(resin) onto the hole/scratch/dent/dimple.

Fire + Finished guitars = bad IMHO

You hold it far enough away that the flame isn't touching the guitar. Not that hard to figure out really.

Plus with a poly finish not like a candles going to damage it unless your super careless. The flames when i've done it are really tiny.

I've fixed a few cheapies this way when I needed something quick and easy that would look okay.

Part of the reason I did this is many factory finishes are PTex resins. (per a friend who does a fair amount of work for Fender/Jackson/Charvel)

Showing my ignorance here but always keen to learn..................what is a PTex resin?

Jim

You might try black nail varnish. I use various lacquers and I've never had compatability issues when I've used nail varnish for minor repairs. Obviously it wouldn't be an as new repair and I'd always advise testing for any reactions with the original finish first, but if there are no issues, just apply it carefully to the damage and build it up layer by layer as it dries. Then very carefully level the repaired area with something like 1000 or 1200 grade wet and dry, then a cutting compound and finally polish it up.

I can't guarantee that this will work on your particular guitar, but I have used this method before on one of my sons guitars and it worked out really well.

Jim

I'm personally not too keen on the decal on the back of the fretboard, but that said, I admire the effort you have done for that.

I don't think that's a decal, which makes it even cooler that he went through the trouble to mask all that off perfectly. I think it looks great!

When you did the red, did you spray it or pinstripe it? Either way looks awesome.

Id like to say thanks for all the feedback on this one,Im proud to say that all of the red work (flames & pinstriping) was masked and spayed by hand,I did contemplate redoing the neck just black again but keeping the pinstripe (deleting the flames) just keep in mind I intend to paint the cavity covers in the same red as the flames,do u guys think the back would look better that way...let me know

If it was one of my guitars I'd leave the backplates black. In my opinion too much distracting colour takes away from the cool reshaping you've done. Just my opinion, but as has rightly been said to me before, sometimes less is more.

Jim

That's neat work indeed metz. I like the cut outs on the horns and the finish looks great, though must have been a pain in the proverbail finishing inside those cutouts!

The only part on it that detracts slightly for me, is the red (binding effect) along the edge of the fretbopard and the detailing on the back of the neck. I'd have been tempted to maybe tone down the back of the neck detail slightly, as compared to the really neat subtle effect on the face of the guitar, the back of the neck looks kinda 'ordinary' by comparison. But hey, that's just my personal taste and I'm sure many would disagree.

Overall a great job, like it a lot.

Jim