mpeg2

Sorry: Been away for a while. Color is still good (not much change). The finish is pretty hard - I wiped it on - it was a bit thicker than I'd like, but OK.

Rich

Mpeg2, seems as though you have your personal messaging disable, so I'll ask here if you're still around. How did that spar varnish work out for you? Is the color of the Padauk still intact? How hard is that finish? Rock hard or semi-hard?

Well, I guess the only way of finding it out is to take a piece of paduak and go through the same sanding and finish applying process and leave it in the sun to see how nice it will age. If I use it I want it to look good with the hardware, theme etc since I have not seen a oxidized piece in front of me . But I have been researching for the past couple hours drawing on others experiences and you (Roman) seem to have the same experience as others. what hardware did you use for your instruments?

I actually tried this experiment - took some freshly sanded pieces of Padauk & tried a few different finishes (Tru Oil, Teak Oil (which was supposed to have some UV resistance) and Spar Varnish (meant for boats). I left them in the back window of my car for a few weeks. The only one that didn't turn brown was Spar Varnish - which is what I ended up using...

Rich

I'm speaking from no experience here - but it seems to me that if you wire a dimmer in series with that bulb, you'd have quite a bit of control over temperature (at very little expense).

Rich

Is there any functional purpose for body binding - rather than looks? I'm starting to think about trying my hand at an acoustic build from a Stew-Mac kit (done more than enough solid body electrics) - the only step that looks awkward to me is the binding...

Rich

Can any of you guys point an amp building newbie (actually pretty much and electronics newbie) in the right direction to start learning about this stuff?

Try www.ax84.com tutorials & more there...

Rich

I'd love to hear more thoughts from our resident material scientist; he may be able to answer some of the questions some of us have posed that flickoflash can evidently not answer.

I just looked back at some of the earlier posts - one from flickoflash caught my eye:

"Seems you didn't read the tech sheets on how it is done . First the temperatures are dropped to -300 which realigns the molecular structure & then it Is Heat treated after to lock it in."

From basic principles - especially for Face Centered Cubic metals like Copper, the statement above is purely backwards. Generally speaking, changes in a crystal structure are very temperature dependant, happening faster at higher temperatures (especially for FCC metals). This means that changes will happen faster at room temperature than they will at -300. Since (if I recall correctly), the kinetics are quite slow on this kind of thing until you reach a significant fraction of the melting point (expressed in degrees Kelvin) - for Cu, grain growth (which is the primary thing that would affect conductivity for relatively pure Cu) is very slow (almost non-existent) at room temperature. At cryo temperatures, it would be exponentially less.

For most changes in metals - you heat the metal to make the change happen and then cool it to lock it in.

Once again - Steels are a different category because of the mobility of carbon in the iron matrix. Cryo could certainly harden steels, but hardness isn't much of a consideration for most parts of an electric guitar (except maybe the trem).

Rich

P.S. Its kind of fun talking about this stuff again. I left materials a while back & moved to digital television (I'm currently immersed in making DTV work)...

Superconductivity is somewhat outside of consideration here (unless someone is contemplating playing their guitar in Liquid Nitrogen).

Rich

its over my head!!

but i did have a customer asking if i would use cryo pots and stuff, i dont mind as long as it still sounds like a guitar!! If we think they sound better then thats great but 'better' is a very subjective term and if i know one thing for certain its that these will never be considered 'better' by everyone

By all means, use cryo bits if the customer demands it. However, you might want to CYA by noting that these parts were not designed to be put through that type of thermal cycle and therefore, you can't warranty their longevity once they leave the shop.

By going real cold, there could be some interesting stresses put on the internal due to thermal contraction. Cryo treatment is definately below the minimum storage temp specified for most of these parts...

Rich

One thing that's missing from this thread is any form of science. One of the basic premises of this treatment: cooling to change the atomic structure and then heat treating to lock it in is exactly back-asswards - especially for most of the materials used in guitars (Copper noteably).

As a 1st year materials engineer would know, changes in the crystal (grain) structure of a metal happen quicker as the temperature goes up (and conversely, slower as the temperature goes down). As an example - if one wanted to increase the conductivity of Copper, you'd heat it up to a fairly high temperature and then cool it slowly (anneal) to allow the grain structure to grow. Cooling it to cryogenic temperatures would make no change in structure.

Steel is a bit of an exception - it undergoes a ductile-brittle transition at low temperatures (think of the Liberty ships in the North Atlantic during WWII).

Rich

BTW: If you're wondering about credentials, I would think that a PhD in Nuclear Materials engineering with a significant amount of research in the kinetics of phase change in rapidly cooled metals might count for something...

I'm getting pretty good results using Spar Varnish. Not the easiest finish to apply (meant for brushing) - but it's designed for marine uses (sitting in direct sun all day) and has pretty good UV protection. I've used it on Padauk with good results.

RIch

I built a 12 string "strat" style with a Wenge body. It was a bit of a pain to work with - splinters & pores. Using single coils, there's a lot of the Rick jangle happening. The guitar is beautiful, plays & sounds nice - but its tough on your back (quite heavy).

Rich

I've built a few guitars out of Padauk - really like the appearance and sound. I've had no problems with working or gluing the wood. I didn't take any special precautions before gluing with TiteBond & have had no problems.

A few points about finishing:

1) Padauk produces a very fine, reddish orange dust when sanded. If there's a laminate happening, especially with a lighter colored wood, the dust will "bleed" through.

2) Padauk takes an oil finish beautifully.

3) The color changes with Padauk are not due to oxidation - rather due to UV (sun exposure). I've looked at pieces that were cut off the blank that have been sitting in the basement for 6 months - the fresh surfaces are still pretty much the same color as when they were cut. One guitar I built has been sitting in a stand where one side gets a little indirect sun exposure - it has darkened considerably compared to the other side, which is more shielded. I've been experimenting with different finishes that claim UV resistance (partially coated piece of wood sitting in the back window of my car for 2 weeks). Teak oil (which does claim UV resistance) seems to do very little to keep the wood from darkening (from orange-red to a rather dull brown). Part way through the cycle, Spar varnish seems to be resisting the color change.

Rich

I'm in the process of building two solidbodies out of Padauk. Padauk is fairly sensitive to sun (UV) exposure - going from an orange red after sanding to a deeper red after finish and then with sun exposure, changing to a rather uninteresting dark brown. My normal finish is Tru Oil, which does very little to retard UV color change.

After doing some web research, I tried Teak Oil (which was supposed to have some UV resistance) and found that the color change still happened.

I'm a few days into an experiment with Spar Varnish (leaving a partially coated sample in the back window of my car) - it's looking like Spar Varnish is significantly retarding the color change (if not stopping it).

The problem is that Spar Varnish is a brush on type of finish - I've always used oils. Any suggestions on how to get a good finish with this??

Thanks,

Rich

I'm about to embark on a new build - a solidbody made from Padauk. This wood changes color with exposure to sunlight (UV), going from an orange-red to a darker brown. I usually use Tru Oil for finishing, which does little to block UV.

Can anyone recommend something that will block the UV to allow the body color to remain constant?? Preferably, it would be something that could be applied and then Tru Oil used for the final finish...

Thanks,

Rich

I've been contemplating throwing together a guitar that I can take with me when I travel by plane - esentially a minimalistic electric guitar, with removable neck. I'm not after anything fancy in tone, but something that I can use to work scales & practice some music when I'm on the road.

The intent is something that I can toss into a briefcase as a somewhat protected carryon - thus the removable neck. I'm still working out the body ideas (anywhere from a 2x4 sized thing to something a bit more elaborate). Electronics would be simple - one pickup, no controls - run into a POD or equivalent & then headphones.

One thought that I've had was to replace the normal neck mounting screws with some screw in studs (screwed into the neck). These would go through the body holes & neck plate - then be attached with wing nuts (for easy removability). Has anyone played around with this type of design - offer any suggestions?

Thanks,

Rich

I recently built a 12 string "Strat" - Stratocaster shaped body, with a Carvin neck. I used the StewMac 12 string bridge & a nut cut for 12 strings on a "normal" 6 string neck. The string spacing is a bit tight (up by the nut). Many 12 strings have a bit wider neck to accomodate the extra strings - but not all. Rick 12 strings tend to have skinny necks - some people like them this way.

I have no trouble playing it - actually prefer the tighter spacing. I finished this about 3 months ago - no problems with the neck at all due to the extra strings.

Go for it!

Rich

Anyone tried Tru-Oil over any of the rosewoods?

I used Bocote for the top of a guitar & finished with Tru-Oil - no problems with the finish at all (didn't do any pretreatment either). Came out beautiful

Rich

I'm not too fond of plastic pickguards either - I did one recently using birdseye maple on top of 1/8" baltic birch plywood. I'd recommend using plywood rather than a thin piece of wood - less likely to warp & has higher strength. 1/8" baltic birch is strong & won't warp + is easy to glue to. It was pretty easy to glue up & finish - the only gotcha was that it is a little thicker than the normal plastic pickguard. I had to remove a little thickness at the neck pocket - the fretboard hung out over the end of the neck by 2 frets. A little dremel routing took care of this.

This is how it came out:

Rich

I'm planning out a new, somewhat unusual build and am not sure all this will work together. My training (back in the dark ages) was classical guitar. After a long period of not playing, I started up again, but with steel string electrics. I still find myself pulling out the classical pieces & playing them on my electric guitars. I find that I like the necks much better on the electrics - as well as the ability to adjust action & intonation - but want to also have something with nylon strings.

What I'm thinking of building is a solid body strat shape (already have the body), using a bolt on neck. I'd use a strat style hard-tail bridge, string thru & conventional tuners. I've had good luck in the past with the Graphtech Ghost piezo saddles, so I'm thinking of using these (understanding that magnetic pickups are useless). This way, I'd get the playability of an electric, but with nylon strings. Apparently, ball-end nylon strings are available.

Can anyone see problems here:

- Nylon strings not being compatible with the bridge or tuners?

- Mismatch between the piezo pickups & nylon??

Thanks,

Rich

The amp was the 1st real tube amp I'd built (if you don't count the one that runs on 12V). Even though there are schematics floating around on the web & even layouts, if you look hard enough - I decided to go with a kit to learn some of the basics for tube amps. I chose TubeGarden based on what I'd seen discussed about the quality of his kits & support. His pricing is pretty good (in line with the quality of the kit) and the support is very good.

I'm not sure if he ships to Europe (a guess based on the link you posted) - but check out his website & drop an email to ask.

Rich

You're almost at the right place - look here: Project Guitar Tutorials. I built my 1st one a year ago and have gone on to do 5 more (each one better than the last - see Bocote for the last).

I've heard of folks building solid bodies using only a few hand tools, but I wouldn't have the patience for that. Having access to a band saw, router & drill press will get you most of the way there.

Rich

I wanted to build a 12 string 3-single coil guitar. I had a nice piece of Wenge (dark chocolate brown, with black grain). As usual, I chose a Carvin bolt on neck. I decided to use AP-11s (like the sound & the extra pole pieces would help with 12 strings). I found a nice 12 string bridge at Stew Mac. After pricing out the bits, I discoverd that buying a Bolt kit was only slightly more expensive than just the parts that I needed. I put the body & bridge aside (liked mine better).

I didn't want to put a plastic pickguard on a guitar like this, so made one with birdseye maple veneer laminated onto thin baltic birch ply. I ordered the neck with an unshaped headstock & managed to fit 12 tuners on it. Carvin was also able to install a preslotted 12 string nut on the neck. I put a layer of birdseye maple on the headstock, to match the pickguard.

Assembled & setup easily. It plays and sounds beautiful - IMHO, gives the "R" brand a run. It'll take a little getting used to - using a 6 string neck and putting 12 strings on it makes for a rather tight string spacing.

More (and better photos) at:

http://psip.home.comcast.net/12string.htm

Rich

The bocote is a 7/8" thick piece glued on top of an equal thickness of mahogany. Each layer is actually 2 pieces edge glued (really hard to find these things wide enough for a body). I've found that 4 piece bodies aren't detrimental at all.

There's a wood place near Princeton NJ (where I live) called Willard Brothers, with lots of exotic species. I just wander around in there until a piece catches my eye & then plan a guitar around it. I've found that its a little dangerous to visit them, the end result is usually another guitar.

Rich

1/2 thickness is bocote, the rest mahogany. A bit heavy, but not much more than a Les Paul. I thought about chambering it, but that would have meant no body contours.

Rich

1st, a Christmas present for my son (very striking grain on this one):

See http://psip.home.comcast.net/bocote.htm

A walnut bass (from a kit):

http://psip.home.comcast.net/bass.htm

and a Champ Clone:

http://psip.home.comcast.net/smallamps.htm

Still have a 12 string "Strat" in the works.

I think its time to stop building & start playing...

Rich