mrjstudios

These are the measurements of my crappy strat copy's pickups. (They are probably the most standard and generic SC pickups that I can find.) ________________________________________________________________________________ _ 1- 4.95mm 2- 57.08mm 3- 14.36mm 4- Bobbin touches both sides of the cover, but 2 small coil wires could be squeezed through easily. 5- I don't care, and I am 100% sure no one in the audience will either, or even notice. ________________________________________________________________________________ _ -MRJ

When I get some free time I've got 2 different SC pickups that I can measure... later. -MRJ

I think this might help you Col AC resistance Equations

Ah Col, you are right! I'll see what I can come up with.... Whoa there!!! I thought we were getting away from the glowing S****** thing from about 30 pages back! Uhm, not so sure about that. Theoretically, it should work, but when I was spacing my last driver's magnet, even with really good computer steel (very magnetic), the power of the magnet was cut literally by around 60%-75% by the time it got through the spacer steel. I don't know if a washer would do the same to a pickup pole, but it is something to think about. -MRJ

Ok, that's what I thought would happen....

Well Heggis, I used a standard strat single coil pickup's magnet for my driver. Of course it worked because it was origianally used to 'power' a pickup. I think if you could find some bar magnets with the same magnetic orientation as a specifically "pickup Magnet" then you will be ok. That means that "NNNNNNNNNNN =========== SSSSSSSSSSS" is what you need. I'm not sure if anyone has tried a "N=========S" on a driver, but I don't think that would work, since you need a consistant magnetic pull across all of the strings, not a S to N transformation between the middle 2 strings. Has anyone actually tried that type of standard bar magnet? (Not the pickup kind) -MRJ

Ok thanks Col. I'll try a dual coil driver with .2mm wire, wired 4ohms (series) with 2mm cores. My only question is how can I do it with a standard strat pickup magnet? It is only around 5-6mm wide, so I can only have the cores that far apart.... Hmmm..... Do you think the properties of the driver would be skewed too much if the cores were 6mm apart? At this point, I would verify to anyone that 16ohms x 2 coils in parallel is a bad idea. (At least with my setup.) However, even with its flaws (like having to big of wire) you would think it would work at least a little bit. To me, that suggests that almost any 16ohm x 2 coils setup would not be a good idea. People, try it if you want, but I think that at this point, a single coil works just fine, and a dual coil like Col's is an improvement on that. And by the way Col, how is the harmonic mode on your dual coil driver....? -MRJ

Well, Pete -- take some time off!! Great idea!! Don't even look at this thread for a while! I'm sure other members here will shepherd the new members and point them in the right direction while you're "gone." In otherwords, enjoy your vacation! And by the way... As curtisa said as well, I don't have any qualms with you using the collective improvements from here in your 'product,' as this is NOT A PRIVATE forum, and any information that is desired to be withheld should not be posted here. The only concern I had before was the way you made it sound like all of the 'little contributers' didn't really matter in your one post. However, that has now been cleared up, and your true feelings revealed, so it's all good ! Now for some data that I have been 'withholding'.....(mostly because my testing was interrupted by the F/R crash, but here is what I found out before that happened) My driver: Dual coil, dual blade driver each coil rated at about 16ohms (very, very close) coils wired in parallel .20mm wire (32AWG? I think) Coils with a 3mm cross section core (blades) about 7-8mm apart regular single strat pickup magnet (with spacers [i don't advise using metal spacers, try to have the magnet actually touching both cores (blades)]) 1.5mm of plastic bobbin on top of the coils, 2.5mm of blade sticking up above bobbin, about 3-6mm spacing of blades below strings Well, this device does work. I was unable to record sound samples to let you hear how it worked, since my F/R circuit stopped working before I could.... In fundamental mode: I use medium Guitar Research strings (.009"), and all strings were able to be acted on by the device except the high E (.009"). That high E had NO RESPONSE WHATSOEVER. (How shall I put this...) "Note-Ringing-Out-Value" was increased almost infinitely by the device on the lower strings, with the best response being on the A and D strings. The low E responded the 'loudest', but many notes higher on the fretboard were 'octaved' down by the device, and then ran out of control, causing distortion. (didn't someone else have this proplem too?) This octave drop also happened a little on the really high frets of the A and D strings. Good "Note-Ringing-Out-Value" was effectively about 6-8 seconds, before the 'run-away' distortion kicked in. Absolutely NO pickup interference/feedback occured, even when this thing was cranked up to full (and I wired pins 1 and 8 together in my F/R circuit for extra power!) No pop was encountered when switching between harmonic mode and fundamental mode. In harmonic mode: Complete crap. Total feedback (not the good kind) happened even at nearly 0 gain, 0 volume. I checked and rechecked the wiring to and from the mode selector switch -- they were OK. I can't explain this any more than that.... It might be some weird phenominon with dual coil models. Final Verdict: Since single coils seem to be working very well these days, I would stick with one of those. I think (was it Avalon? or Col?) had success with a dual coil driver of some kind, but I really did not. Sure, the EMI reduction is great, BUT the function of the device is worse by far than the performance gain in the EMI area. Right before my F/R died, I even switched back to my 'old style' (look back about 20-30 pages) big .25mm wire single coil, to make sure my circuit was ok (since I thought that the F/R might have been the cause of the dual coil driver's squeeling in harmonic mode). It turns out that even my "bad" attempt at the single coil driver was a lot better (and 100% better in harmonic mode) than the dual coil. Hope this helps... -MRJ

Well, it seems Pete and David have said it all. However, I am a little concerned, Pete, about your perception of other forum member's contributions. Let me say it right now: Everyone knows you are the driving force of this thread. You are the lead developer, thinker, and have obviously sacrificed more time and money than 10 times what anyone else has done. Also, the true innovations on the device have been yours. There is no question of that. I think we all have that respect for you, even if we do dissagree at times. However, as David said, you don't quite seem to understand how many of us have tried to help and further the project -- in good will might I add -- and help you yourself in any way we can. Personally, I came into this later on, and started off by building a similar device to your designs. It worked. I credit this completely to these things: your time and development, other forum member's improvements on your original work, the circuit designer (3rd party), your and other forum member's help when I asked questions on this thread, and my own innovation (a tiny bit) and skill (even less) to build the thing. Once I had the thing going, I decided that maybe I could use my physics knowledge to help with more development, as a way of 'paying back' you and the forum for the help on my first device. So I read up on the current designs (dual coil and blade drivers) at the time, and studied the theory behind it, and tried to build them. I did this not only to make my s****** better, but to help contribute, in any way I might happen to stumble upon. I (and I think many others) bought special order parts, according to mostly your ideas, and did essentially R&D for this thread. I know you have spent loads more than me and the others, but we did spend time and money, in the thrilling pursuit of a better system. Sure we did not completely innovate anything, but we made small adaptations that you seemed to have brushed aside in your last 'who-really-did-anything-important-other-than-me' posts. For example: I built and tried a dual coil blade driver that would have been able to be put in a HB casing. (I think avalon did too?) I tested it extensively and would have had full audio/video results of my testing had my F/R not gone out. Isn't that (vastly small test in comparison to your contributions, PSW), worth something? Then you got onto this new circuit, and so I stopped my testing awaiting the new design, which brings us to now. Many others here have also contributed small bits of testing, much more than I have by far, and isn't that worth something in the spirit of hunting down the ideal system? I can see why David may have felt a bit overlooked when you were asking for people to 'step up' and tell of their 'real' innovations. SO.... Once again Pete -- we all know that you are the "MASTER OF THE SUSTAINER," to put it in simple terms, but don't the small contributions from peons like me (and many others that have contributed far more than I have) count for something in your mind, at least looking at us as quasi-R&D people (and volunteer R&D people I might add!)? Keep up the good "s" word work and do what you feel you should with it. Hide it. Sell it. It is entirely your call. Best regards, -MRJ

That is a good site. If you are going to pay for a site, do it thru godaddy.com. -MRJ

On a lighter note... PSW - I have been looking for a new website for you and your product. One that has a standard front to it, a possiblilty for paypal transactions (later on), and a wiki/forum for support. I am close, but right now all that I can find are sites that you have to pay for. Hmmm.... I wish I had a server running from my house. I was going to do that before to host my own website but my internet service prohibits that sort of thing. Maybe if I can find a way that they will let me legitimately do it, then I could host your site. More research.... -MRJ

I agree with Onelastgoodbye, I think he may have been joking. At least I hope so... There is still enough info on this forum for anyone to still do a DIY project. Like I did, anyone who wanted to could read about half of the thread and make a F/R cicuit, a single coil (the kind with blocked bobbins) and have a working device in no time for not much $$$. To those it may concern: PSW has not withheld any necessary information to make a sustain device. He has proposed and completed upwards of 10 working designs right here on the thread, disclosing everything. Any DIYer could look off of those projects and make their own working device COMPLETELY FROM HIS AND OTHER MEMBER'S DESIGNS AND IMPROVEMENTS ON HIS DESIGNS. The only information that he has "withheld," (and might I add, has no obligation to disclose) is info about his costly HEX driver designs, and his newest business model product. He would possibly like to offer one or both of those as a kit/product some day, so it would be detremental to him, the designer, to disclose their precise inner workings. And he has even told excactly what both of those products do, (just not how they accomplish it exactly), in the spirit of show-and-tell DIY forums, which futher puts him at a risk for being copied, since many electrical wiz's out there could figure out what he is doing just by his descriptions. One would be hard pressed to find someone who has built their own DIY device on this thread who has not used PSW's ideas (and when I say used, I mean either making a design to his WILLINGLY SHARED SPECIFICATIONS or actually being coached through their design and build process by PSW himself on the thread.) There is no question who the number one contributer to this thread is; PSW. -MRJ

Sounds great as usual PSW. Remember that I have a nice camera and take lots of close up hi-res pics (I know everyone here has seen them....and has probably been annoyed by the sheer numbers of them....) While I am eventually 'beta testing' and installing your unit, I could take loads if pictures of the entire process if you want me to. That way (even if you get a camera) you could have some different styled guitar/application pictures of your unit to use in a manual if you wish. By the way, you said the coil wire was strong -- what gauge is it? I know my .2mm is pretty strong (but not really if you pull at it) and the .25mm is even more so, but not like what you were talking about! -MRJ

Hey, I'd be willing to pay US$60 even for a beta unit. I was just wondering about how much $$ I should set aside for this. Just figure it out when you can, name the price, and I'll pay it (as long as it doesn't cost as much as a fernandez kit ) No.... when I said good HB, I meant like buying an aftermarket one or a stripped-out-of-guitar one on ebay. And like I said before, I'm not haggling here. A while back you asked for a price estimate, so I gave one based on what I knew at the time. It is up to you to figure out your price, and I'll pay it! -MRJ

Very good progress PSW. I'll do beta testing for you. How much cheaper do you think that the beta versions would be? The US$63 for the whole thing is a good price, but I was just wondering how much the first ones would be..... I will test the thing on my 'susatainer guitar' (which has only one bridge pickup) and I will use an extra strat pickup to mount the sustainer on, and not even wire it as a pickup. (I'll just use it as a dummy for its magnets and cover.) This will simplify my testing and eliminate the switching problem in my data. Now if I can only find a good HB to stick on that guitar...... -MRJ

Why? Pickups cost maybe $3 to make but manufacturers charge up to $400 for some of them. I don't think anyone would mind paying a little extra for the circuit or driver than to just cover cost on your end. You should make sure you are making a profit (even if it is a small one -- you're choice) on everything. The coil and circuit can still be really 'cheap' compared to the commercial designs, but that doesn't mean that you shouldn't make a profit! I know all of the EMI theory behind that... but couldn't a switching logic be used? Like the midi controllers out there that remotely activate guitar effects without having to string the actual signal out to the switching device? I know that that type of thing would add huge complexity to the project, but perhaps later on it would be a feasible option (not to mention being a much desired feature over the commercial versions....) I have just the idea for the remote power!!!! Most amps have standard open circuit input jacks that could be easily modified to a stereo jack. You could use a "1spot" (a 9v awesome power supply) for the power, and just run it inside your amp to the stereo jack and then out the back to plug it in. You would only need one custom adaptor to convert the standard 9v pedal supply jack on the 1spot to the stereo power/signal line, and no one would ever even notice the mod to your amp! I think a CAT5 LAN cable would be a perfect fit for this application, but is just one of many good options. I have also used the Neutrik 7-pin connector on a Sterling Audio tube condenser mic that I was using for recording recently, and that is another very good idea. That one sturdy cable supplies power+, power-, signal, signal, ground, and I suppose two more connections (7-pin total) that it uses. It looks kind of like a midi or a remote footswitch cable connection. -MRJ

I actually had that happen with the sustainer hooked up to my *almost* stock F/R circuit! I was also wondering why that happened.... Whenever I would play a note on frets above the 8th or 9th frets, they would come out sounding like an octave lower. Hmmm. Good. That is kind of what I started using for my circuit-to-driver lines. I used mini computer fan connectors (the kind with 3 wires that accept pins that are ATA Hard Drive cable size). This type of thing will be a huge advantage when you start selling these. I do have one more idea though, as you go about trying to figure out how to control the level of the sustain and the mix between fundamental tones and harmonic mode. How about a foot controller. Rock it forward and click a switch to activate the volume control, rock it back and click a switch to control the harmonic/fundamental mix. The switches would work just like the activation switch for a standard dunlop cry baby -- but of course there would be one on either end of the pedal. This type of thing instead of a 'pot' control would also allow more while-playing control, as well as cut down on modding the guts and appearance of guitars being retrofitted with the "PSW Sustainer Kit." Anyway -- just a thought. I'll mod your kit/product (or my current setup if I can ever get it fixed) later anyway myself to try a foot control, since I want to have very good control of this thing while having my hands free to play! -MRJ

Well, sell it for how ever much you need to, to make a profit. Just be careful that it doesn't turn into another Fernandez-like US$100-300 sustainer kit since that would pretty much defeat the purpose of a DIY sustainer . I would pay a little more for it too, now that I think of it, since it would be pre-made and garaunteed to work! -MRJ

Sounds cool PSW! I think a good starting price would be about US$25 for the circuit and driver (extra for all of the bypassing parts and stuff). But sell them for whatever you want. -MRJ

Sounds great! Does it work in harmonic mode though?!? (That is very important to me....) Whichever site you use to sell these on though, I urge you to use paypal. More people will buy your stuff with the security and ease of paypal included! Anyway.... I will be busy with my other guitar project for now -- a tube emulating pedal that will tie in directly to my Peavey amp..... That will arrive any day now, so I'll be busy soldering the kit and properly adjusting all of the JFET drains and then mounting the thing in a custom box that is the size of a 5150 or Marshal 100 Watt Head. If my system works out I'll make another thread about it, since it just might save everyone with solid state Peavey amps (great amps, horrible distortion/overdrive) the trouble of having to replace them for a tube version. (Also, this new 'head' will have a switchable input -- so I can have my standard guitar and sustainer guitar plugged in at once and quickly switch back and forth live.....) Another thing I have noticed over time here is the lack of sound samples. Whenever I get a working sustainer guitar, I will take advantage of my recording studio and post tons of hi-quility audio samples, and of course more youtube videos too. -MRJ

Hmmm, I like the looks of the modded pickup style sustainer. Although I will still make my own coils for the most part, and just use your circuit, I would buy one of your coil/coil kits just for comparison purposes, and probably use it in some guitar, if not my main "sustainer guitar." If the circut is small enough, I might even use your kit in my first guitar, and perhaps even feature your kit unmodified (so it remains descrete) in all of my custom guitars! I, like you, am making a small run of guitars, and selling them pretty cheaply, especially considering that they are all handmade, (and I must say that I have not yet played a guitar that I liked more than mine.... but that may be because I designed mine to specifically suite my tastes.) So... I would definitely buy from you: ________________________ 2 circut kits (or prebuilt) | 1 pickup mod sustainer kit | ________________________| ...and possibly many more to put on each of my custom guitars if the customer wants the option.... Hey, while we're on the subject, anyone want a slightly heavier than average (better tone though) custom guitar? Or if you want to buy a pre-made body, a regular weight custom guitar? I could have some being made by October, for delivery more toward November... (No, it doesn't take me that long, I have other reasons for the delay.) -MRJ

Oh, by the way -- I linked directly to this forum and thread on my Youtube Susatainer Video #1, to give credit where credit is due. Like I said before, 1000+ views and growing -- and now all of them will be redirected to here!! Again, the link is check it out if you want! -MRJ

Great, and thanks a lot!! Well if that is what your worried about, then get on ebay and sell the kits yourself! I would hope no one here would steal your designs for personal gain, though.... but now that I think of it, we all have posted some steal-worthy concepts on here, and I can definitely share your concern. However, if I had a failsafe puchase site like ebay that I could buy your kits from (using paypal) I would be THE FIRST person to BUY it. I can see the quality of your work, and would trust your product support -- and I also would be happy to buy your product so that you could make a little profit off of your designs for once. So..... once you get the circuit design tested and perfected, and if you are worried about posting it for free online, make a kit or even a pre-built circuit, and list at least one on ebay. Just tell me about the listing so that I can purchase it. (It would be awesome if you used the BUY IT NOW feature and accepted Paypal, since it would convert AU$$ to US$$ automatically.) -MRJ

Well, I haven't "left!" I've been reading, but I just haven't had any more experiments to contribute. No pressure at all Pete , but I am kinda still waiting on your new circut, since mine is so bad. I really think that my drivers are decent -- and that if hooked up to a good circuit they would work great..... Also, there still seems to be a lot of interest in sustainers in general -- my youtube video just hit 1000+ views! Just post the circuit schematics when they are ready, and I'll be good to go again!! Thanks a lot for the work! -MRJ

Very cool side driver idea. I think I'll build one. Uh, first of all, could you post some pics?! I just want to get a feel for the materials you used. I do like the idea of having 3 cores for magnetic purposes especially. Also, where do you put the magnets exactly? I think I'll do mine with some rare earth magnets too (I have a broken old hard drive that I really want to tear apart, he he he...), some .2mm wire, and I'll wind either core to 4ohms and hook 'em in series. I still want to get my dual coil driver working though, so I'll use the new circut when it is ready for both of these projects. -MRJ