Wammi

Ok, how do I tighten uo the whammy bar on my Flyer? It just droops down. Does it need nylon washers and locks inside? It was sold to fit Kahler but it doesn't seem like it does.

Uglogirl

you cant on a flyer. you need to upgrade the cam to a hybrid or pro. the flyer doesnt have an arm clutch. there is no real fix. lok tite works....for awhile.

Hi all,

I'm interested in the fixed bridge 7330 and I would like to know the maximum and minimum string height in the

saddles, thats the bridge height, in order to figure the neck angle. Anybody can help me ?

Thanks a lot!

.680

And... what about the minimum ?

Thanks

.500

From what I've read, which doesn't mean a whole lot, Kahler's problems didn't stem from people incorrectly installing the trems, but rather cheap copies of the Kahler design flooding the market and putting the company into receivership. I'm just kind of curious about why one would pay up to and over $200 for a bridge that comes with minimal installation support other than "take it to a qualified luthier, who may have never installed one but can probably freehand the route". I see from your website that you've put up a wealth of information and I sincerely commend your efforts, but I think you'd have even better success by developing and introducing a router template and detailed instructions that people can opt to purchase if they'd like to attempt the installation themselves.

Yes, you'll have a few people here and there who screw up and mess up their guitars, but no more than the hackjobs who buy a set of EMGs and short out the preamps.

FYI The catalog that comes with all bridges has a 23/7300 template which is exactly the same as a 7 or 8 string but just wider. You simply cut the template in half and spread the 2 halves apart and extend the width lines. Soooo easy.

Remeber that Floyd doesn't supply templates either... it was the demand that made luthiers start making them, and now Stew sells them too. Wait a few months and you will see a Kahler template there if not at other sites that sell templates.

I'm upset at the fact that I started to build the guitar without having the template on my hands! This is the only mistake that I made. Not their fault but mine. And we (at least the few of us that have been working with wood for a minute) can make a Kahler template in less than 10 minutes, they supply you with a cardboard template, just trace and use a straight edge to rout it out! I even recessed mine free handed with my dremel!!!

There are other more things to think about other than a template!

Thanks maiden for that. FYI The catalog that comes with all bridges has a 23/7300 template which is exactly the same as a 7 or 8 string but just wider. You simply cut the template in half and spread the 2 halves apart and extend the width lines. Soooo easy.

Hi all,

I'm interested in the fixed bridge 7330 and I would like to know the maximum and minimum string height in the

saddles, thats the bridge height, in order to figure the neck angle. Anybody can help me ?

Thanks a lot!

.680

That's why this time around, Kahler wants everyone to use a proper Luthier practiced in the art of Kahler placement, mounting and setup. (a good luthier can do it free hand, practically with his eyes closed like Neal Moser of MCS fame.) This way everyone has a good experience.

That's an incredibly bad idea. Kahler's have been off the new market for so long that there's probably not very many people around who've used one, much less installed one. Also, yes, a good luthier can do it free hand, but any luthier I'd pay to do it better be using a template. There are few people out there who'll route a pickup route on a Strat without a template.

I've noticed that people who build guitars tend to be a lot more detail-oriented than most carpenters and are addicted to their precious cache of templates. Doesn't Floyd Rose and Fernandes include templates with their trems and sustainer systems?

We feel its a good idea and i'm sorry you feel that way, but it is what it is. FYI: we have well over 100 established Kahler installers around the USA. And we have about 10 a day coming on board. Many from the past. Also Kahler never was out of business totally. We have been in biz for over 35 years now and were selling the trems to BC Rich and ESP through the 90's as well as Moser MCS and quite a few others. It only re-became a public venue in 2005. The end user couldn't buy one but thousands were sold to OEMS. Mostly custom shops. The parts dept was unmanned during that time. Its old history. Water under the bridge.

Wammi

Most of you don't know me. Those that do,.. know me as John at Kahler Parts. I am the Parts, Service and Support head at Kahler USA.

If anyone needs some Kahler questions answered I'll be glad to help you. Its my job.

Wammi J

www.wammiusa.com (951) 541-2387

www.kahlerparts.com (760) 494-5969

..................................................................................................................................................

Hi, first post! 2300 series 8 string black, Beautiful piece of engineering, v cool design!

Do Kahler offer a mdf template for their trems, if not, why not? Much better idea than us making our own , and v inexpensive to do quantities surely?

There was no protective card between the fine tuners and the rear 'stop plate'. It arrived with the trem tuners wedged against the rear, the tuners are very abrasive, and there are two areas where the f/tuners are v slightly scratched; ok you can lock it but there is a lot of tension there if your fingers slip while you are doing it and it bangs back, as I found out! Ouch, never been assaulted by a tremolo before!

Any news/dimensions on an 8 string lock nut for this one? Opinions, which is the better trem , the 2200 or the 2300?

Ta Pete uk!

Im sorry to hear that about the tuners. They usually never stick. I have not heard this anyway but, if you email through the proper channels at info@kahlerusa.com we will fix you up.

About the news for locknuts...they are available now in 7 and 8 string versions. I have them at http://www.wammiusa.com/5538.html for $79.

About the template...Kahler does not offer any templates. It is their belief that they are not needed if you know what you are doing. Frankly I can't blame them. Its happened before and it'll happen again. There are too many young budding guitarists with little woodworking and measuring skills that would gladly try and save a buck or two and try to "wing it" themselves........... and then blame it on Kahler when it doesn't turn out right. That's why this time around, Kahler wants everyone to use a proper Luthier practiced in the art of Kahler placement, mounting and setup. (a good luthier can do it free hand, practically with his eyes closed like Neal Moser of MCS fame.) This way everyone has a good experience. FYI: You can take the 2300 template out of the catalog and cut it in half to extend the straight lines on the width. Then just line up the screw holes on each half. Thats just as good as a template.

The 2200 and 2300 are the same. Neither is better than the other. They are different only in the way they mount to your guitar.

Wammi

Hi,

I am setting up my Flyer but I do not understand the saddles at 10:30 thing. ?? What should be pointing at 10:30?

Thanks... I always like it when manufacturers take an interest in their clientele.

edit: oh wait I think I get it... it is more obvious what is meant when looking at the 2300 saddles. I have .55 in. from the guitar top to the bottom of the hi E roller saddle so I'mm in the ball park I guess.

Kiira

you got it. you just need a bend over the rollers for good contact while divebombing. 10-10:30 is good.

Hi John,

I'd like to ask you about Kahlers and Piezo Transducers.

is there any projects or ideas on how to do it?. I'm very interested in this topic because I'm a Kahler fan, and a Piezo fan too, so I'd like to know your opinion about it.

I must say that I'm not the first one with this idea, check out this link:

http://picasaweb.google.com/wizgard

If you or someone else have any ideas about it, please let us know.

Thanks in advance,

TR

By the way, here is a link to a page that offers the solution for self-building under saddles transducer.

http://www.liutaiomottola.com/PrevPubs/Pie...xTransducer.htm

In your opinion do you think that this hand made system works with the Kahler?

Thanks in advance

TR

There is not much i can add. From Kahlers standpoint there is nothing to offer, not to say it hasn't been looked into at one time, because it was looked into and experimented with back in the late 80's. But at this time, it is not an option. And honestly i am not an expert at acoustic piezo systems so i cant even start to give you advice, however when i asked someone high up about that question, they said no, it would not work on a Kahler in their opinion.

I'm installing a 7415 on a bass I'm building from scratch, and I noticed that bass installation hasn't been brought up yet in this thread. Here's the build thread.

I'm currently at 3/4" depth of rout and I routed with a 1/2 inch bit while was doing pickup cavities, should I take that to an inch depth with a 3/8" bit as per the guitar instructions?

Also, what's the minimum saddle height I can have? hould the angle be at 10:30 as on the guitars? And does the rearward saddle situation change things on that front?

And without a locking nut is there anything to worry about? I noticed Victor Wooten has a brass nut with his Kahler'd bass, should I do that or am I fine with bone?

Also I've got a slight worry about the .130 fitting the roller securely as my instructor remarked upon seeing the bridge "I believe you B string will sound like a well executed fart, but that's a cool piece of machinery".

Thanks in advance

yes go to 1 inch.

keep at 10.30 like guitars.

No worries on nut, lube liberally with thick white grease. Works best when strings go straight thru nut to tuners. no fan-out.

It will fit secure in the notch of the roller and your fart will smell..er, sound like roses. go for it.

Wammi,I have a strat style guitar with a 2320.I love the guitar and the bridge.......I guess the rolles are brass and I wanted to know if changing those to steel rollers would improve sustain ...

Thanks for any help.

Aharon

It will, yes. Its not real dramatic but its a bit crisper sounding.

I have the 6 the rollers,to change them i push the pin out.......is it reusable or will the pin be ruined,do you sell replacement pins?.

Thanks

Aharon

Here are the instruction for roller replacement.....

Tools needed:

A hammer. ( the smaller the better)

.050 - 1/16” punch to tap out the pin. (jewelers hex driver works great from Radio Shack)

A block of steel or metal with a screw hole through it.

A small block of wood, preferably soft wood.

1) Unloosen the Phillips screw on the top of the saddle and slide the fork out.

2) Look at both sides of the pin in the fork. Note that one side is smooth and the other looks like it was snapped off.

3) Lay the fork on its side with the forks to the left and with the pin over the hole of the block. Push the pin out by placing the punch on the smooth side and gently tap out. The pin will fall into the hole you made in the block. Save the pin.

4) Remove the roller from the fork. And insert new roller in its place and secure with the pin.

BUT FIRST….

5) Notice the pin closely. One side is sanded and tapered a bit for easy entry. and the other side is simply cut off.

6) Insert pin, tapered end first while twisting and lining up roller. Once through the roller the pin will stop.

7) Lay the saddle on its side on a block of wood and gently tap the pin back in flush with the side of the fork. PLEASE NOTE: the pin will protrude a tiny bit on the other side. It is actually by design, a tiny bit longer and will stick out the far side a tiny bit. THIS IS NORMAL. This is why you want to use a shock absorbent block of wood, this way you can tap the pin flush and it will simply come out on the other side and stab into the soft, protecting wood.

8) Repeat process with all 6 saddles.

Wammi,I have a strat style guitar with a 2320.I love the guitar and the bridge.......I guess the rolles are brass and I wanted to know if changing those to steel rollers would improve sustain ...

Thanks for any help.

Aharon

It will, yes. Its not real dramatic but its a bit crisper sounding.

Hey Wammi

I'm looking to install an original 2300 on a strat,but I'd rather like to recess it into

the body. Does Kahler have routing templates to do this? I have a template to rout

for the cam assembly,but I'm having a hard time finding a template for the body

of the bridge shape itself.

If not, do you know anyone who can make a template, or where I could find one?

I can do the layout and can do the routing myself,I'd rather not pay extra

and send the body out and have it done by someone else...

If Kahler would design one of these, I'll be the first in line to buy one!!!!

No we do not have full recess routing templates. I must stress though, that recessing a strat is not Standard Operating Procedures. I feel you wont have the saddle height to achieve your action if you recess too low. You will need about .600 from saddle top to body. Also if you plan to use the lock feature, a trough will need to be made for allen wrench access to it. I will be interested in the outcome of your experiment. If you want you can simply remove the cam from the frame (it will sit flat then) and use the frame for your outline.

For $20 I take the cam off and to my local machine shop and have it drill and tapped! For $10 I'll buy the tap and do it my self! the bar is a breeze to make! you can even have yours modded and have it re-chromed for about $5.

Please stop to consider for a minute ALL that goes into an arm "hole"

What about the the arm clutch shaft and the arm clutch cross channel which are different diameter sizes. You have 3 taps to buy, not 1. The arm clutch cross channel needs to be tapped through between the arm shaft and the arm clutch shaft via the bearing cavity. You'll need arm clutch nylon material too which is not sold separately. You'll have to press it in the shaft and re-tap the excess out of the arm hole. Plating may also chip when you tap plated material. A lot to consider when 50 bucks gets you there with a bonus....

The additional $50 gets you an upgraded cam in your choice of steel, brass or aluminum as an tone option. All that, plus the ability to use a Palm or Johnnie bar.

By the way... You can bend an arm with a hammer and vise. No need to make one. FYI: The standard #10 stock used by the industry is NOT the stock used for Kahler arms. Thats why fender arms are sloppy in the hole. Our stock is special made....you cant buy it off the shelf.

Okay, I'm a trem convert, officially.

I always played hardtails. (Although my SG had such a floppy neck, I often made it sound like it had a trem.)

On a whim, I threw a bigsby on one of the guitars I built. I loved it. I put a jaguar trem on another one, I also loved that. I went back to hardtail for a while, and picked up the bigsby again, and realized I'm basically now a sucker for trem.

Thing is, I don't know jack about them. I never had one until I started building my own guitars. (Well, I had a strat copy, but the trem was basically non-functional, and I eventually had it blocked. And that was my first guitar when I was 14.)

So I want to try a new trem on my new build. The plan at this point is going to be a slightly LP-styled guitar in at least that it has a carved top, but being a scratch build, I think I can work the design around the bridge in a functional fashion with careful planning.

I'd like to have an idea what to look for before I start trying things out. Is there anywhere I can read up about trems, like some reviews or something?

So many of the sound clips are either shredding solos or subtle country stuff, that I don't get a good idea of the unit - since I don't play either of these things.

I like vintagey looks, but I guess I'm not entirely adverse to something super modern looking. (I like lots of flat chrome, which is actually the only reason I put in the jag trem.) I abuse my bigsby and jag and they stay in tune pretty damn well, however - so maybe a modern style trem isn't what I need? I would like a little more downward motion than my bigsby, I guess.

I like the wierd sound of the jag trem, and the behind the bridge-picking and kevin shields strum-while-holding-the-loose-arm thing are fun, but I don't think I need another guitar capable of either of these things.

I like an arm that stays put well (like the bigsby), but is easily movable when need be. I really like the *feel* of the bigsby - it just feels really connected to the strings (which I suppose it is) The only strat trems I've played feel really "loose" and "sloppy" by comparision I didn't like that. My jag trem is a little sloppier feeling than the bigsby, but it seems like it's mostly the arm bending - I'm thinking of picking up a new arm for it. (I guess it's what you get when you pay $15 dollars for a trem) I've been told floyd trems are really touchy. Like the movement of the arm is very small compared to the pitch bend you get. Is this true?

Are there any secrets I should know about any trems? (Like why did I have to find out the hard way that Bigsby's are a pain in the ass to string if you take all the strings off, and even so they aren't a walk in the park?)

I know I should just try out some stuff in the store, and I will - but there seem to be more offerings showing up online that I've not seen on guitars in the store; and there are so many brands of even the generic strat trem. I think I'm leaning in the direction of strat trem, I suppose. Any particular brands I should look at? Anything I should avoid? How similar are the routes on these - if I purchase one am I stuck with that one unless I want to rework the guitar?

I'm sorry my question is so vague - I tried the search, but I'm not having much luck (for precisely that reason - my question is rather vague.) I guess even just some recommendations would be helpful, and then I can see what I can do about trying out those various pieces of hardware.

I admit i am a bit biased, but A Kahler trem is a VERY adaptable trem. You have up, down, left, right, in and out on the saddles. (see specs here: http://www.wammiusa.com/Hybrid_specs.html )

It doesn't necessarily look vintage but it technically is (since '82) thats 25 years so it's a a classic i suppose. lol You said you wanted the arm to stay put. The arm clutch does that. See all the features on this install guide here: http://www.wammiusa.com/Installation_guide.html

If you want to hear one live, I will be happy to call you on the phone or better yet...skype or msn you with my PC video camera and give you a E-jam Lol. Privately email me at wammi@wammiusa.com .

I will arrange a showing of the range and sound.

Wammi

If anyone needs some Kahler questions answered I'll be glad to help you. Its my job.

If you want to hear a Kahler live, or need some 1 on 1 help, I will be happy to call you on the phone or better yet...If your able, I can Skype or MSN messenger you with my PC video camera and give you a E-jam. Privately email me at wammi@wammiusa.com

I will arrange with you a private showing of the range and sound.

If any of you out there are familiar with streaming live or videos that can be displayed on the web, please email me. I am unfamiliar in this territory but I am anxious to post lessons and demos of the sound, ranges and techniques ect. I need some expert video posting guidence here.

Wammi J

www.wammiusa.com (951) 541-2387

www.kahlerparts.com (760) 494-5969

http://www.wammiusa.com/Installation_guide.html

http://www.wammiusa.com/images/new.gif

I've never used a Kahler, but the answer is obvious: flatmount, not the LP retrofit one. And your bridge dictates your neck angle, not the other way around.

correct. its best if you build you guitar around the Kahler. It's the cornerstone of your guitar.

Mr Wammi i am contemplating making a flat top electric, proberbly bolt on neck with only about a 2degree neck angle. I would prefer not to do the full strat type route and stick with a LP type of mount (less neck angle though ) Which type of kahler should I be looking at. kev

2 degrees? you want the 7300.

Question: are Kahlers available for Lefty gutiars?

if you upgrade to a 2 hole cam. $50

p90...as a long time floyd user(15 years),i can tell you that to this day i don't like the rout involved,the way the edges wear out and affect tuning,cutting off the ball ends,the complicated intonation setting procedure,constantly flipping the guitar to adjust the spring tension,then tune it,then adjust,then tune...

the great thing about the kahler is that all of the adjustments are done from the top,with the strings on....

And that's the selling point for me, right there. This is just an awesome thread, and it's cool to see end users talking directly to people actually involved in the product more than just the marketing aspect. Doesn't happen nearly enough, in my opinion.

Not a hardcore trem user myself, I don't think I'll be contributing much to this thread, though having played many a Floyd setup, I can only support the group's collective effort to "kill off" that beast. Man, do I hate that setup... Ere I build a guitar with a trem (proposed build #3), I'm going Kahler definitely.

Greg, when you mentioned building a surrogate neck, the first thing I thought of was just taking a neckthrough blank and slapping a bridge and tuners on it. It could definitely be done.

Just a thought RE: heavier gauge strings and clips, if the 7 and 8-string tremolos are built to accommodate heavier-gauge strings, couldn't one buy the required replacement part from the 7-string series and swap them? You'd have one piece left over, yeah, but if people are running into the same problems as Wes is, it would probably be worth it.

I am glad i can help here...I am stoked! About your last statement: That is exactly what i asked them. Can we sell them to those who need them (its not a huge market yet) but its getting bigger. They are looking into it for me. Anyhow it WILL happen one way or another as i am head of the parts department and i have the authority to do what is best for the customer. I will have some in inventory eventually like i have every other part for all the other models here. The new stuff is in short supply right now and will get better as time goes on.

Wammi

This year there was 16 OEMs at namm with Kahlers on them last year there was.......1. Its the 80's al over. Floyd id dead.

With my marketing hat on, I'm curious as to WHY...

Are players getting tired of locking strings and allen wrenches?

Is it the routing thing if you wanna pull a Floyd up?

Does the Floyd have an "image problem" being too closely associated with hair-metal crowd?

actually its because he now makes his own line of guitars and if you want the new speedloader you have to buy HIS strings. No one likes to be forced. and the fact that you cut the ball end off is a pain for some.

thanks for the dimensions and all the help.

one note though.if you really want to kill the floyd market then you are well on the way...BUT as long as floyd can accept ANY guage string and kahler can't,you will find it tough to take over the 6 string heavy guage market.

as you said earlier,if you made larger ball clips available,or even special kahlers set up to accept those heavier strings,then you wold be golden and i would never buy a floyd again.

as i said,i personally use lights,but i am building some on my next run for others...and some of them love the 11s(even though i think that is a silly string gauge to use)

Wes,

I have already asked to get heavy hooks as an option for you to buy aftermarket just for the heavies. I did this today. Just because of this forum. I am waiting for the answer. As simple as it sounds to do though...its not. It must be factored in "the big plan" ect ect. So the answer wont be ....tommorow so to speak, but i believe its inevitable. By the way...the fat adapter plate is my brainchild and will help get floyds off guitars and kahler on them....retrofit style. Did you see it? Its not really for you new builders...unless you mess up your route. See it here: http://www.wammiusa.com/Fat.html

Wammi

So, John...

If I had a way to bring the strings up to pitch first (eg., a "surrogate headstock" that's used just for that very job), do you imagine that the Kahler could then "take over" sufficiently, on a headless design?

Man...

Khaler has the manufacturing capabilities. They could make a small profit on headless trem systems if they designed and sold one. It's a niche market, to be sure. Sales wouldn't be even close to traditional Kahler... but you could make it worth the R&D I bet.

---

Regarding installation-- the literature I've read seems to imply that you don't need to recess the trem into a guitar if it has a flat top. It's good to know that's not the case; however, it doesn't make routing quite the "snap" that the literature implies, either. No way to get the baseplate that extra millimetre lower so that it wouldn't be necessary?

Greg

I love guys like you man. Smart. If you can do that then YES it will work. as for the R&D stuff. I think steinberg has a patent on that. i know we talked about it 2 years ago and let it go. You develop something that we wont have to change on our trems then you got yourself a niche market. hehehe. Smart guy gets worm!

About the liturature and mis-dis information out there. I am writing it all out and actively getting it out there. It is on the site...in the newsletters, NOT in the manual but ....i digress here....we are lax in updating to the new ideas and liturature because frankly we are overwhelmed in the actual act of manufacturing. This year there was 16 OEMs at namm with Kahlers on them last year there was.......1. Its the 80's al over. Floyd id dead. You will see them in every store in the next year or so on 1 guitar or another. You all just feed me your needs and i will post the answers for the world to see. I sometimes am ignorant to others needs. Im in my own little world here. enclosed behind the fish bowl...Lol

Its a rat race.

I hear rumors and gossip and things that are sparked by misinformation and simple guessing.

maybe so.but that is my point.that info needs to be easily available.then there will be no guesswork.you of course must know that we are striving to make our guitars as perfect as possible.so if the info is there we will use it

I am learning that...

here are the updated specs. Note the body to saddle height measurements.

http://www.wammiusa.com/Hybrid_specs.html

I dont have one for comparison, but I know *MANY* people that love them. People that have them rarely say they like a floyd more than the Kahler. Floyds/Kahlers are very different from 2 point strats since they are double lockin push pull affairs, while a strat 2 point is a single locking dive only *normally*..... (Yeah I know they can be set to full floating..... I have 2 setup that way with a 3rd under construction.... I'm saying "normally" they are not... for all you "correction Nazi's" out there!

The only hang up is the price. Otherwise you have nothing to worry about regarding tone or quality. Just ne sure you have the correct neck angle for that bridge, as it's different than for a 2 point strat.

Did you know that the 2300/7300 was designed for the strat and fits like a glove in the pickguard cutout and the 2 holes line up over the 2 outside hole of your 6 in line strat bridges and trems perfectly?. The only drawback is sometimes a tiny bit of the slot route shows on the vol. pot side of the trem fame. maybe 1/8 inch. I said sometimes, because the route has changed slightly over the years. also the price is only $159 right now. www.wammiusa.com

By the way. Kahler also made all the hardware for fender strats and gibson lp's in the 80's. (I actually have 5 Kahler made still in the original paper tissue wrappings) mint NOS chrome mirror pickguards in 1/16" solid 30HH brass. I sold one on ebay a few months ago and fetched 129 for it.

I am going to sell off 3 of them in the near future. They are AWESOME! Also have Fender P Bass Pickguards in the same chrome and Brass finishes too. This is the rarest of the rarest still in pristine condition. If anyone is interested let me know.

Wammi J.