Where To Get The Sustainer Coil Wire?

[conor1148]

hello, i was looking through the how-to thread for the sustainer driver and it said to go with the 30 gauge wire. i went to radioshack today and they didnt have any wire like that.

I've been looking around online and everything i can find is either stranded wire in a sleeving, too big, or is "artistic wire". id imagine the non-corrosive artistic wire would be no good for me?

any help is appreciated.

[Ripthorn]

Look for magnet wire. There should be several suppliers online. You may have to buy more of it than you would use for a single driver, but that's okay, you can just make more.

[conor1148]

Look for magnet wire. There should be several suppliers online. You may have to buy more of it than you would use for a single driver, but that's okay, you can just make more.

ah! im so dumb!

so like this wire? clicky click

and dont worry, i plan to be making more than one!

[psw]

Being in australia, and not knowing where you are. What you are looking for is "enameled" insulated wire, sometimes called "magnet wire"...

Someone else may be able to give you a pointer as to a supplier online perhaps. You don't need a huge roll of the stuff, but you should get enough to make a few till you get it right.

Also, be very careful with the gauge thing, "american standard gauge" is different from others and things can get confused. That's why I talk in terms of 0.2mm for my designs typically...so an actual measurable size, rather than a confusing "standard". Is 30 gauge 0.2mm, I really can't say...it may not be say in asia where the wire was made, or europe where it was distributed from...you see the problem?

Also, if attempting this, be sure that you really understand the necessary steps and important components. Things like potting in glue and measuring the coil resistance and such are crucial. The potting seems to be where so many come unstuck for some reason. Also, the bobbins and core materials and such, if varying from known working designs, best to start a thread with all your project ideas outlined plus pictures of progress before you do things.

And...I always advise and generally even do with known working designs and circuits...test everything. SO, test that the circuit works as a decent amp without problems with a speaker...test the system holding the driver over the strings away from all pickups...test and test again...

Do all this before getting to far ahead with things like installation or planning switches and such. Again, time and time again people get too far ahead of themselves with these things.

Quite a few people have successfully completed this project without problems, but so many seem to report errors that are clearly not those of the design or the guitar. It is not so hard a project, but it draws on many skills...circuit making, guitar wiring, troubleshooting, bobbin construction, material selection...and a bit of practice and so failings in things like winding drivers.

There are no "short cuts" either in much of this...not potting a coil will doom it for instance, having a circuit that is noisy or faulty or unstable will never work, thinking you can get by without a buffer, or substituting or adding parts in the hope that things will work is hardly likely to succeed.

Also note that there are many versions of these things...be sure that you have compatible ideas and are up to date. The F/R circuit was proposed many years ago, has shown some validity for the application, is not ideal however and many mods to stabilize it and improve it have been posted.

Otherwise, good luck...see the tutorials on winding drivers and the sustainer project generally and make sure that you are up to speed on all this before you start out...it can be a very tricky thing for some...so beware, but good luck

[conor1148]

Being in australia, and not knowing where you are. What you are looking for is "enameled" insulated wire, sometimes called "magnet wire"...

Someone else may be able to give you a pointer as to a supplier online perhaps. You don't need a huge roll of the stuff, but you should get enough to make a few till you get it right.

Also, be very careful with the gauge thing, "american standard gauge" is different from others and things can get confused. That's why I talk in terms of 0.2mm for my designs typically...so an actual measurable size, rather than a confusing "standard". Is 30 gauge 0.2mm, I really can't say...it may not be say in asia where the wire was made, or europe where it was distributed from...you see the problem?

Also, if attempting this, be sure that you really understand the necessary steps and important components. Things like potting in glue and measuring the coil resistance and such are crucial. The potting seems to be where so many come unstuck for some reason. Also, the bobbins and core materials and such, if varying from known working designs, best to start a thread with all your project ideas outlined plus pictures of progress before you do things.

And...I always advise and generally even do with known working designs and circuits...test everything. SO, test that the circuit works as a decent amp without problems with a speaker...test the system holding the driver over the strings away from all pickups...test and test again...

Do all this before getting to far ahead with things like installation or planning switches and such. Again, time and time again people get too far ahead of themselves with these things.

Quite a few people have successfully completed this project without problems, but so many seem to report errors that are clearly not those of the design or the guitar. It is not so hard a project, but it draws on many skills...circuit making, guitar wiring, troubleshooting, bobbin construction, material selection...and a bit of practice and so failings in things like winding drivers.

There are no "short cuts" either in much of this...not potting a coil will doom it for instance, having a circuit that is noisy or faulty or unstable will never work, thinking you can get by without a buffer, or substituting or adding parts in the hope that things will work is hardly likely to succeed.

Also note that there are many versions of these things...be sure that you have compatible ideas and are up to date. The F/R circuit was proposed many years ago, has shown some validity for the application, is not ideal however and many mods to stabilize it and improve it have been posted.

Otherwise, good luck...see the tutorials on winding drivers and the sustainer project generally and make sure that you are up to speed on all this before you start out...it can be a very tricky thing for some...so beware, but good luck

thanks, no worries though. ive been reading over some of the threads on and off for about 3 weeks now. Ive built and modified a few dozen pedals (about half being kits and mods, the other half being builds from schems)

i know this is not really just another phaser or overdrive pedal, but i think i have enough free time, ability, and ingenuity to fumble my way to a working setup.

thanks!

[psw]

Look for magnet wire. There should be several suppliers online. You may have to buy more of it than you would use for a single driver, but that's okay, you can just make more.

ah! im so dumb!

so like this wire? clicky click

and dont worry, i plan to be making more than one!

Thanks Rip

Ah...see...if you look at the size chart...0.2mm wire is actually 32 gauge wire from that supplier...and comes in a better sized roll it would seem than 30 gauge, which is not 0.2mm. See the pitfalls!

Now, again....all these things can happen with choices of core or design of things...this wire for instance is based on my designs typically, though many have used it. However, there is nothing "magical" about this wire as some have suggested over the years...it creates the right kind of coil for my designs, if you plan on deviating from that, well...that's a completely different story and potentially wire gauge!

I'd suggest being completely open with your plans materials and circuitry and create a thread to keep it all together before and during proceeding with things to avoid disappointment. It really isn't hard though with due care and preparation and following the suggested method...don't go out on a limb with different potting methods and such and then wonder why it doesn't work. If you are interested in further experiment, I'd suggest making something that is known to work to the letter, before deviating at all. The easiest one would be to build it out of a blocked single coil bobbin and magnet structure for instance and many have been made without problems with this format.

It should be noted that on my driver tutorial, the exact same thing was made the week before without the pickup and fully tested with circuit, guitar and everything before reproduced on top of the pickup itself.

That original stand alone design really has stood the test of time. The original which was made of cardboard still works...the almost identical thing developed into the sustainer I now use on my tele...if you are not familiar with that version, you might want to see this thread...

blueteleful telecaster project

However, i would not attempt this kind of bobbin-less epoxy construction till you have a lot of experience. The essential elements are identical though, the 3mm steel core was even cut from the same piece!

[conor1148]

ill make me a thread then. just gotta get my notebook back out and scan the ideas/circuits and such.

since i already have this thread going.. whats the best bobbin to be using? is it something i can get online?

[psw]

Well...are you making a standard kind of basic sustainer?

If so, most have found the easiest to block up the bottom of a single coil pickups stripped of wire...especially if this is the kind of pickup being replaced. Still need glue potting, but at least the bobbin and mounting and magnets are taken care of. Any cheap pickup will do, but the wire will have to be stripped out of it...maybe a local shop might give you one that's damaged.

There should be stuff about this around, there is a tutorial somewhere of sorts and the DIY layout creator site...

[McSeem]

The general tip is to google for a particular gauge, say, "36 AWG magnet wire"

http://www.powerwerx.com/wire-cable/magnet...CFRyfnAod9U_4-Q

http://www.allspectrum.com/store/index.php...4ab23ba21c3badf

[McSeem]

Also, be very careful with the gauge thing, "american standard gauge" is different from others and things can get confused. That's why I talk in terms of 0.2mm for my designs typically...so an actual measurable size, rather than a confusing "standard". Is 30 gauge 0.2mm, I really can't say...it may not be say in asia where the wire was made, or europe where it was distributed from...you see the problem?

Yes, the term "gauge" is confusing. In USA it makes sense to use unambiguous "AWG", which means American Wire Gauge.

Here's the chart and calculator:

http://www.technick.net/public/code/cp_dpa...e_awg_to_metric

Oh, BTW, here's a complete list: http://www.bulkwire.com/wiregauge.asp

Edited April 30, 2010 by McSeem

[conor1148]

well i found some wire from a company im ordering from anyways, its only 30 gauge though. would my project be doomed if i use this anyways?

Clicky click click

im ordering from them anyways for some other projects, it'd be great to go ahead and include this to save a little on shipping.

[psw]

If you break the formula with different gauge wire, and you don't get the expected results form the standard design, expect to be asked why. That other site had plenty of the correct size for less.

These things can matter...it is like building a circuit, say it calls for 1K ohm...but you can get 1ohm easier...would you expect that to work in the same way? With the wire and coil design you are making a critical part of this project...this wire gauge was tested with this kind of driver type to provide the appropriate resonance and inductance and qualities to work on all strings. You would likely get some response, might even work...but except for winding sustainer coils, what else would you need the stuff for?

So, from past experience with these things and many threads on the subject...including Mike-G's tutorial which used the wrong gauge and had trouble with the high strings, I personally think the tried and proven method is best. What was wrong with the last link, at least it specified the standard used in mm's so you know what you are getting for cheaper as I recall. If it doesn't work you will of course be immediately told to try and do it to the formula and see if that works.

You have not mentioned circuits either...so if ordering things online...you should probably start that thread and be sure that you have the components to update the F/R and other things. As I say, have a plan, have it checked...then order

[conor1148]

will start a thread, lemme finish drawing up my schematic in MS paint..

[McSeem]

well i found some wire from a company im ordering from anyways, its only 30 gauge though. would my project be doomed if i use this anyways?

Clicky click click

im ordering from them anyways for some other projects, it'd be great to go ahead and include this to save a little on shipping.

Common, it's a shitty thick wire that you can buy in Radioshak. You need at least 36AWG, but never 30! So it goes...

[psw]

well i found some wire from a company im ordering from anyways, its only 30 gauge though. would my project be doomed if i use this anyways?

Clicky click click

im ordering from them anyways for some other projects, it'd be great to go ahead and include this to save a little on shipping.

Common, it's a shitty thick wire that you can buy in Radioshak. You need at least 36AWG, but never 30! So it goes...

Umm..what does that mean?

36AWG is about 0.13mm...such wire is completely unsuitable for the design described, and yes it has been tested and discussed many times. Please do not muddy things with advice until you have a proven working design. The wire is that gauge (0.2mm) for a reason, it is not "shitty" but the appropriate gauge to generate the EMF required and make a coil proven to work in this format with this kind of circuitry.

Wires of all gauges were tested by me in the design process...many have tried others and in different designs. Interestingly, the last year people have been advocating for thicker, not thinner wire for these things. My specs apply to this design and have been proven over and again. Deviations have repeatedly caused problems.

You may have appropriate results with such wire on a single string driver, but it is certainly not appropriate for a driver of this dimension and type. You will hardly get many turns for a start with wire that thin on a coil of 8 ohms on a pickup bobbin...and so it goes!

[McSeem]

Oh, I'm sorry for possible misunderstanding. If you want to wind a single coil driver, yes, you namely need this thick wire. But for a small, 6-coil one, there's no way to use it. You can barely achieve 0.5 ohm or so. That's what I meant.