Truth_David Posted December 26, 2006 Report Share Posted December 26, 2006 Merry Christmas...oh, it's over and I am already back at work...never mind the New Year is coming... Thanks for the Translation David...I know it's tricky for all concerned, zfrittz6 seems to be doing some interesting stuff...but the posts are confusing. At one stage I thought he was saying he had been successful with a mid driver...now it seems he is having trouble with replicating (kind of) cols work. Yes, many of his posts were confusing, which is why I decided to offer to translate when necessary. I have a headache, and really don't feel up to much (and not even from drinking too much!), so I decided to include a message for him, so that he can tell me exactly what he needs translating from your post, as it seems to be more generic and directed to the entire community of developers, and the truth is that not being at all savvy in the field of electronics, I have not read all of the material, and there is a lot! There are a lot of variables, especially in driver design and people should view the circuitry as only a small part of the overall equation...afterall, it does work with very basic low powered amplification and a simple single coil driver. As the late Lovekraft pointed out, very early on, it is the driver that needed developing...circuitry voodoo can improve things, but you want to start those improvements from a high a base performance as possible. I think my guitar and CurtisA's should serve as a benchmark for how such a system can work with very good performance. Col's work serves as a benchmark for both improvements in circuitry and in the dual driver design, this later point should not be overlooked. This might be something zfrittz6 needs to understand.....? I suspect many problems are associated with poor construction as much as anything. It may require a few drivers to be made to get this down right, I don't know. It may well be, when I have a chance to do some work on this again and sustainerize my new guitar, that I will be able to come up with a more standardised approach to construction techniques. I remain impressed by the coils that Tim was able to make with that simple jig and making coils in this way to fit onto pickups or constuct into drivers may well be the best approach for a consistant result, neat and solves the bobbin making problem. I think that we will be settling into a period of replicating and experimenting with the ideas put forward late in 2006. I'd like to see col's work replicated successfully (I may well do that), I'd like to try a rail design based on a rail pickup (thanks shawn), I'd also like to experiment with the bilateral ideas too....then there is the mid-driver (hmmm) and maybe some more thoughts on ebow like devices. The latter would be great Pete..... Anyway...what ever happens in the new year, the second half of 2006 was entertaining and enlightening and showed that progress could be made with some fresh ideas and personalities...thanks to all concerned...stay in touch... pete Hi Pete.....would you please try to write a concise version of what you need to be communicated to our Spanish friend, as your reply seems to be aimed toward the entire community involved in the development of the sustainer system in general, so it also discusses themes which I have personally not been able to read up on. Perhaps I also need to ask him what he does not understand specifically and translate that in particular. Otherwise, this is going to turn out a pretty difficult and lengthy translation. So here is my question to zfrittz6: Hola, mira - este post de Pete parece tratar de temas que yo personalmente no he leído (no siendo electrónico, que hay mucho que pasa encima de la cabeza) y además, está tratando de comunicar un tema genérico al grupo entero - por lo cual, no sé que sería necesario entender, o más precisamente, ¿qué me necesitas traducir que no entiendes de este post? Es un post bastante largo, tratando de algunos temas relacionados pero distintos, y realmente prefiero no tener que traducir todo el contenido....tengo mal a la cabeza después de la Navidad (no por haberme emborrachado, no....por haber tenido demasiado lío). Entonces, por favor indícame si hay algo que no entiendes que te interesa in este post, y te lo traducire.... Hasta entonces, Happy New Year to everyone David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted December 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 26, 2006 Thanks David...I don't think we could ever translate everything for one member anyway, so don't try to do everythin, just specific questions or when people ask for clarifications I think...take care... pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikysk8 Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Hi guys, my name is Michael, but i'm italian i couldn't phisically read all the thread and would know what is the best sustainer you've done by now. i'm intentioned to make a sustainer with a steel rod in the middle and copper coils around, like a pickup and use the Ruby miniamp tho amplify the signal from the guitar, Can it work??? my bigger problem is the driver, how many turns i have to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spazzyone Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 this will get you the basics and up to speed on drivers http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.php?showtopic=16984 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikysk8 Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 i've misured th resistance of my wire and it's about 2,5 ohm/m !!!! with 2,5 turns are 7,5 ohm, but all the coils i've seen have a lot of turns it's all right??? help me please mi wire is 0,1mm how many turns i've to round? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truth_David Posted December 27, 2006 Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Thanks David...I don't think we could ever translate everything for one member anyway, so don't try to do everythin, just specific questions or when people ask for clarifications I think...take care... pete Hi Pete...no, you are right, and I know and must respect my limitations, especially in terms of time and energy. However ... Today I received an e-mail from zfrittz6, which I believe he intended me to translate for the group. I was surprised by what he said, and sent hima word for word translation so that he could personally post it on the forum. But as he seems not yet to have received it, I feel that it is too important to wait so I am going to post it now. That might lead to confusion if he then resends it, so be prepared for a double post . Anyway here is the translation: David, I wanted to tell you that from what I can see I wasn't clear enough with the rest of the group as to what I had achieved - a bobbin (coil) which works in the middle pickup position on the guitar, the insulation for which is based on a soft drinks can - additionally I have also managed to produce a circuit which employs all of the characteristics of Col's design, that's to say with all the modes of operation - normal, harmonic and mixed modes 1 and 2, but it works better, and the response is more instantaneous for all notes than is the case with Col's circuit, in which certain notes have a delayed response for their level to be raised sufficiently for infinite sustain. Aside from that, it is to be noted that his automatic gain control does not seem to work other than to maintain the level of sustain for all notes regardless of which fret is used. Once I have finished developing the device with all the photos, details and sound demos, I will upload them to the forum so that anyone can make use of them in order to build their own sustainer. Cheers and Happy Christmas Hope this sounds as good to you as it does to me! David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted December 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Welcome Mikysk8 to the sustainer thread... i've misured th resistance of my wire and it's about 2,5 ohm/m !!!! with 2,5 turns are 7,5 ohm, but all the coils i've seen have a lot of turns it's all right??? help me please mi wire is 0,1mm how many turns i've to round? You have the wrong wire...0.2mm is what you require. The thickness of the wire makes a big difference and 0.1mm will not work. I tested quite a few guages and this is the "magic" one for this application...too thin and not enough turns, too thick and way too many... Today I received an e-mail from zfrittz6Once I have finished developing the device with all the photos, details and sound demos, I will upload them to the forum so that anyone can make use of them in order to build their own sustainer. I will have to wait for that...the translations have caused some mixed messages as to what has been achieved by zfrittz6 but I had thought he said something to this effect...but then on a lter post seemed not to have a proper response across strings with col's circuit....a little confused... pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
col Posted December 28, 2006 Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 (edited) zfrittz6: David, I wanted to tell you that from what I can see I wasn't clear enough with the rest of the group as to what I had achieved - a bobbin (coil) which works in the middle pickup position on the guitar, the insulation for which is based on a soft drinks can - additionally I have also managed to produce a circuit which employs all of the characteristics of Col's design, that's to say with all the modes of operation - normal, harmonic and mixed modes 1 and 2 cool but it works better, and the response is more instantaneous for all notes than is the case with Col's circuit, in which certain notes have a delayed response for their level to be raised sufficiently for infinite sustain. That sounds interesting... I would certainly like to have a slightly faster response, however it should be made clear to others that the response of my circuit is certainly perfectly adequate to give full infinite sustain on all strings.. the only time when it makes a difference is when you play notes quietly and the sustainer 'swells' them up - in this instance, a faster response will give a different (rather than better) effect and feel - what would be 'better' is a system where the response time is variable to suit the individual player. Aside from that, it is to be noted that his automatic gain control does not seem to work other than to maintain the level of sustain for all notes regardless of which fret is used. I'm not sure, but this may be another translation issue because pretty much the main if not the only reason to have the AGC at all is to maintain an even level output for different strings and frets, so if my circuit does this, then it _does_ seem to work - exactly as intended If there is some other way in which my circuit did not work for you, it would be very useful to find out why, because it works beautifully for me... there must be a reason why you are having problems... Once I have finished developing the device with all the photos, details and sound demos, I will upload them to the forum so that anyone can make use of them in order to build their own sustainer. Sounds great, I look forward to hearing the demos as well... Can you make a strip-board layout for this circuit? ...most of us don't have the facilities to build PCBs. One other important thing is power consumption - if your circuit generates a nice strong sustain with a much lower battery drain than mine, I will definately have a go at building it.... so what is the current drain/voltage? David: Hope this sounds as good to you as it does to me! It does sound good. It will be nice to have another working AGC setup for people to experiment with. cheers Col Edited December 28, 2006 by col Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truth_David Posted December 28, 2006 Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 zfrittz6: David, I wanted to tell you that from what I can see I wasn't clear enough with the rest of the group as to what I had achieved - a bobbin (coil) which works in the middle pickup position on the guitar, the insulation for which is based on a soft drinks can - additionally I have also managed to produce a circuit which employs all of the characteristics of Col's design, that's to say with all the modes of operation - normal, harmonic and mixed modes 1 and 2 cool but it works better, and the response is more instantaneous for all notes than is the case with Col's circuit, in which certain notes have a delayed response for their level to be raised sufficiently for infinite sustain. That sounds interesting... I would certainly like to have a slightly faster response, however it should be made clear to others that the response of my circuit is certainly perfectly adequate to give full infinite sustain on all strings.. the only time when it makes a difference is when you play notes quietly and the sustainer 'swells' them up - in this instance, a faster response will give a different (rather than better) effect and feel - what would be 'better' is a system where the response time is variable to suit the individual player. Aside from that, it is to be noted that his automatic gain control does not seem to work other than to maintain the level of sustain for all notes regardless of which fret is used. I'm not sure, but this may be another translation issue because pretty much the main if not the only reason to have the AGC at all is to maintain an even level output for different strings and frets, so if my circuit does this, then it _does_ seem to work - exactly as intended If there is some other way in which my circuit did not work for you, it would be very useful to find out why, because it works beautifully for me... there must be a reason why you are having problems... Once I have finished developing the device with all the photos, details and sound demos, I will upload them to the forum so that anyone can make use of them in order to build their own sustainer. Sounds great, I look forward to hearing the demos as well... Can you make a strip-board layout for this circuit? ...most of us don't have the facilities to build PCBs. One other important thing is power consumption - if your circuit generates a nice strong sustain with a much lower battery drain than mine, I will definately have a go at building it.... so what is the current drain/voltage? David: Hope this sounds as good to you as it does to me! It does sound good. It will be nice to have another working AGC setup for people to experiment with. cheers Col Hi Col, it's nearly 3:30am here, and I need to sleep....so I am going to wait and see what zfrittz6 needs translating before I do any more. But I'm looking forward to some positive results to these latest posts. Regards, David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted December 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 Interesting to see what this "bobbin" is...single coil? As I recall there was a picture of zfrittz6's driver in a can and I think that was a single coil...interesting. I got some encourging results by coating my hex drivers in a metalic epoxy...I guess I do not know if it would have been sufficient on my test strats as I was detirmined to achieve a no mod solution at that point so no pickups were disconnected. I now know that this was a receipe for trouble... Anyway...had been thinking about active shielding for a while so I might as well throw this out there to keep people thinking... This is a typical thin coil driver built on a single coil pickup like mine or stand alone. The core could be poles as illustrated or a blade as on my present pickup. So, around the driving coil a thin strip of steel (salvaged from a tin can, perhaps...of maybe some of this epoxy stuff) is wrapped around the coil and a reverse polarity coil is wrapped around this. I would anticipate that the outer shielding coil need not be as high an omage as the inner coil and the total equal approximately 8 ohms. The intended effect is to create an electromagnetic effect that reduces EMI and concentrates the driving coil action. Unfortunately, my logic isn't what it used to be....would such an active shield intensify the driving coils action, or counteract it? Would the active shield be a waste of power or contribute in some way to the driving effect? Anyway...such a device could easily be made with Tim's Jigamethingy and slip right over a typical single coil and be hidden under it's cover. This kind of installation is the kind of thing I'd like to see achieved...If such devices were an appropriate way to produce drivers...I may well make such coils for people to glue under their pickups and thus make the project more accessable...who knows... It will be interesting to see how zfrittz6 has achieved his results with a thin metal shield. My experiments with such shields di not prove to be much of animprovement, certainly not enough to make a mid-driver...many of mine were actuall magnetised in the reverse polarity, but had no noticable effect on the EMI. On the other hand, I am sure that some of my Hex designs coated in a layer of pure iron all over it improved it's performance...these are very different devices, but all the same, a completely covered device would seem not to be a good idea. As I recall, zfrittz6 had a complete covering too (top and sides) so maybe there is something to this! Anyway...I will need to see a lot more information in regards zfrittz6's achievements, pictures, sounds and circuitry...for sure though, there will be many ways to achieve the effect we are looking for... pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikysk8 Posted December 29, 2006 Report Share Posted December 29, 2006 another question: the core of the driver must be ferrite steel or a common steel does work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
col Posted December 29, 2006 Report Share Posted December 29, 2006 (edited) another question: the core of the driver must be ferrite steel or a common steel does work? There seems to be some misunderstanding about what 'ferrite' is. The ferrite that Pete has mentioned when discussing some of his experiments is not steel or iron, it is some sort of ceramic material with very good 'soft' magnetic properties, but poor conduction - this makes it ideal as a core material because it dramatically reduces 'eddy currents' it's the stuff that is used to make toroid and rod cores for inductors, radio tuners and various solenoids.... unfortunately, it is _very_ difficult to machine, it really needs to be manufactured to the required design... The stuff we are using for driver cores is just magnetic iron or steel... I used a bar of 'flat iron', (I believe it is really 'drawn steel'). Basically what you need is some soft steel with good magnetic properties... stainless steel is no good, it's too hard and not very magnetic.. You can use a bar of the right thickness cut to length, or use thin sheets laminated together. The laminate should work better, but will be more difficult to make. In the UK, B&Q sell various steel/iron bars that work well. An alternative that should work well is the stuff that computer power supply cases are made from - it is thin sheet metal that is soft and easy to cut, and seems to have very good magnetic properties - just laminate a few layers together with epoxy. When you make a core, dont' forget to smooth the ends with a file so there are no sharp bits to strip the insulation from the winding wire. Col Edited December 29, 2006 by col Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truth_David Posted December 29, 2006 Report Share Posted December 29, 2006 Interesting to see what this "bobbin" is...single coil? As I recall there was a picture of zfrittz6's driver in a can and I think that was a single coil...interesting. I got some encourging results by coating my hex drivers in a metalic epoxy...I guess I do not know if it would have been sufficient on my test strats as I was detirmined to achieve a no mod solution at that point so no pickups were disconnected. I now know that this was a receipe for trouble... I see your point, but eventually what would perhaps be most practical for a guitarist would be to at least have the ciruitry and power supply built into a stomp box, in which case you would not have to fill the guitar with all kinds of knobs and controls that would just end up being too confusing to use anyway. So then, controls could be mounted in the external box for switching (visibly) between harmonic modes, as well as having pots controlling the latency of the sustain, as you mentioned, and perhaps amplitude (volume) as well. But of course there are many other filters, EQ etc that could eventually be implemented into the design. Especially if the board were to be made modular, for later updating. This then also eliminates the need for an onboard power supply, which means, even in the most elegant of solutions, carving out a cavity somewhere in the guitar body. As one main application for me would be to be able to mount it on an acoustic instrument, I would also like to see some kind of pickup that could be mounted simply directly over the sound-hole. Presently my acoustic has a rather weak piezzo pickup in the bridge, with no pre-amp - mostly because the guitar is very small, a Brook Bovey travel guitar. But in terms of a Strat, space is already a problem in terms of picking without finding oneself clouting one of the pickups, so apart from the idea of directly mounting a driver coil over an existing pickup, or as several have already done, make a secondary coil in the form of a humbucker, with only one half functioning as a pickup. But both of those options require interfering with the existing electronics. Another idea I already mentioned would be the use of a hexaphonic pickup, but with the aim of being able to select whether or not the sustainer affected all strings simultaneously, or one at a time. Some sort of foot control selector just between all or single string mode could be a possibility. I seem to remember Bartolini offering a hex pickup some years back, and from what I remember it was a humbucker. That was when people were starting to mess with the idea of interchangable pickups - there was a luthier back in the UK called John Birch who was making special instruments with modular pickups - much on the lines of the Seymour Duncan modular amps, and you could choose from a range of pickups according to the sound you wanted, each being specifically wound for the task. Sorry, I went off at a tangent there... The intended effect is to create an electromagnetic effect that reduces EMI and concentrates the driving coil action. Unfortunately, my logic isn't what it used to be....would such an active shield intensify the driving coils action, or counteract it? Would the active shield be a waste of power or contribute in some way to the driving effect? I'm still waiting for zrittz6 to let me know what he needs translating fromthis post, as it seems several questions are directed at him..... Anyway...such a device could easily be made with Tim's Jigamethingy and slip right over a typical single coil and be hidden under it's cover. This kind of installation is the kind of thing I'd like to see achieved...If such devices were an appropriate way to produce drivers...I may well make such coils for people to glue under their pickups and thus make the project more accessable...who knows... I really like the sound of that Anyway...I will need to see a lot more information in regards zfrittz6's achievements, pictures, sounds and circuitry...for sure though, there will be many ways to achieve the effect we are looking for... pete It might be an idea if we were to sum up the various approaches so as to be able to clearly categorize them and weigh up the pros and cons of each approach in terms of both feasability and user-friendliness. Then we could perhaps also more easily keep tabs on who was developing what, and what progress was being made. It is easy to lose sight of the fact that the instrument as a means of expression really needs to be as transparent and simple as possible to operate. I prefer to be able to literally forget I have a guitar in my hands, so I can just get on with playing it. So the more onboard controls and switches, the more it detracts from the spontanaeity and inspiration of the moment. But then I am no Allan Holdsworth. Yet apart fromhis Synthaxe, he has invariably chosen the simplest configuration for his instruments - like EVH. In fact I remember when he only used one humbucker and a volume control and that was it. I realize that the complexity of his equipment is hidden away in his racks, but that is not in question. What I am trying to say is that it is better to have the controls in line of sight, off the instrument, rather than having your guitar cluttered up with lots of controls and switches. The other problem that presents is that when playing hard, even the normal switches and controls can get knocked, especially the 5 way switch. Even some of the most innovative players such as Steve Morse, who used several pickup combinations not normally available, tended to opt for ergonomics in terms of onboard controls. Take the Fender he designed prior to the Ernie Ball signature series. Well, sorry I went of at several tangents, but that's the way my mind works.... David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted December 29, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 29, 2006 Well, sorry I went of at several tangents, but that's the way my mind works....Me too David...I'm thinking about furniture design myself... Another idea I already mentioned would be the use of a hexaphonic pickup, but with the aim of being able to select whether or not the sustainer affected all strings simultaneously, or one at a time. Yes...well there was that Hex driver idea...hmmm I think things like this just add another layer of complexity, think of the controls required to select each string. The Ebow Patent had some interesting ideas along those lines though...a kind of keyboard behind the bridge... It is easy to lose sight of the fact that the instrument as a means of expression really needs to be as transparent and simple as possible to operate. I prefer to be able to literally forget I have a guitar in my hands, so I can just get on with playing it.I agree...I still like the idea of the add on box behind the bridge...with a mid driver this may be possible...kind of like my "sustain box" but who knows really... I am no Allan Holdsworth. Yet apart fromhis Synthaxe, he has invariably chosen the simplest configuration for his instruments - like EVH. In fact I remember when he only used one humbucker and a volume control and that was it. I actually think that the future will be in modeling and that piezo bridges will replace conventional pickups over time and computer devices replacing amps. Kind of like what the Line6 guitars are offering. Still, there will be a place for the sustainer on such instruments and will be easier to impliment...the sustainer is a far more organic device than an effect or sampled sustain. As devices develop, people are likely to become more and more dependant on flexible programable digital devices to emulate sounds of guitars and pickups and to create new sounds and effects. They will also easier interface with Digital Recording, allow the Midi and other programing and trigger softsythns. Still a fair way off, but much closer than the early guitar synths I recall, back in the day... But, col sought from the sustainer the qualities of a really loud guitar, feedback and the sensitivity that it brings. This is not something that can really be emulated and so I think that sustainer technology probably has a place in guitar technology of the future. Similarly, quality instruments, the playability of instruments will continue even with changes in tecnology. The guitar is the most popular instrument in the world, a fetish item and just a cool thing to play!... There may come a time when, like in this thread, people from anywhere could play and work on studio projects over the net and the consumption of music become more diverse and individual. I heard recently that Peter Gabriel has released a new album over the web, while sales may suffer in the current environment still, he only need sell one tenth to reap more $$ than a conventional release. It would only take a few huge bands to get involved in such projects for people to be able to create, distribute and sell music, even if that music were only to be of interest to a very few on the back of thier lead. This could only be a good thing IMHO. Anyway...tangents are us... pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
col Posted December 30, 2006 Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 It might be an idea if we were to sum up the various approaches so as to be able to clearly categorize them and weigh up the pros and cons of each approach in terms of both feasability and user-friendliness. Then we could perhaps also more easily keep tabs on who was developing what, and what progress was being made. I totally agree, I have been thinking about this myself. I will have a go at a feature sheet for my setup - pros and cons, hardware features and 'subjective/stylistic' features ...like EVH. In fact I remember when he only used one humbucker and a volume control and that was it.... Not sure about now, but on the early albums, he used diferent guitars for different parts - e.g. hardtail for rhythm - also, strat type trem (he hated the weak sound of the floyd rose and just used it live for practical reasons)... I would be happy to have just one pickup and one knob if I could have one guitar per job However in the real world many players can only afford one main guitar, so it has to be more flexible and fulfil multiple roles. As far as complexity of controls, some players have loads of knobs and switches and have no problems.... Brain May, Ted Greene... I'm sure Hendrix would have quickly asymilated any and all features of even the most complicates setups seamlessly into his playing... I guess it really depends on the role you are playing as a guitarist within a band or as a soloist... do you need to provide a veriety of textures ? do you want to use digital fx, or use a more classic sound with valve amp and a few simple booster/fuzz fx. If its the latter (and for many it is) then the flexibility of your sound depends on the flexibility of your guitar (and playing, but that goes without saying) I realize that the complexity of his equipment is hidden away in his racks, but that is not in question. What I am trying to say is that it is better to have the controls in line of sight, off the instrument, rather than having your guitar cluttered up with lots of controls and switches. The other problem that presents is that when playing hard, even the normal switches and controls can get knocked, especially the 5 way switch. If I am playing hard, I'm usually moving/jumping around, so line of sight is not in one place on the floor I have never had any problem with accidentally changing the settings on my guitar (apart from hitting the volume knob whin it is positioned too close to the bridge) I guess My feeliung is that its like driving, you should get to know the controls so that you don't need to look - then line of sight is not an issue.... how are you going to sing into a mike while playing and at the same time look on the floor to find your 'loud' switch? Well, sorry I went of at several tangents, but that's the way my mind works.... I like these kind of rambling discussions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
col Posted December 30, 2006 Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 (edited) But, col sought from the sustainer the qualities of a really loud guitar, feedback and the sensitivity that it brings. This is not something that can really be emulated and so I think that sustainer technology probably has a place in guitar technology of the future. Similarly, quality instruments, the playability of instruments will continue even with changes in tecnology. The guitar is the most popular instrument in the world, a fetish item and just a cool thing to play!... Yep, and that is still my main desire. I think my current system is a very good sustainer, but one of the downsides of the AGC is that the sustainer only kicks in when the level goes below the threshold - so you get the feedback style harmonics all right, but lose a little complexity in the tone of choppy rhythm playing. Mind you, this may be an advantage - I'm not sure that the non-AGC sustainer would give the same result as natural feedback in this situation - it does have a tendency to fight and 'choke' some of the spectral content... but it would be good to find out One thing that would be required for this further development is an adjustable driver core. Something in which the distance to the string can be adjusted per string in order to balance the response. That way the AGC can be reduced to allow the system to work on the louder components of the signal. Although like I've said, it may not be useful anyway. One thing that would be useful is a change to the mixed mode 1. Of all the modes, this is the least useful because it tends to choke the low notes. At some point I will try switching it from an all-pass to a high-pass filter. If I can do this on the same board without having too much phase distortion, it could be a nice refinement. OK, now back to those Runoffgroove Amp Sims I'm building oh, and btw, I worked out what was wrong with my Speaker sim and fixed it (bad earth connection), so I'm more in control of my sound now ) cheers Col Edited December 30, 2006 by col Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truth_David Posted December 30, 2006 Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truth_David Posted December 30, 2006 Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 ...like EVH. In fact I remember when he only used one humbucker and a volume control and that was it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted December 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 I like these kind of rambling discussions smile Au Contrare...people seem to really like these long posts and tangents and speculative rambling... 80,000 visits almost and years of discussion have proved otherwise. (May be worth cutting back on the requoting though to lessen duplication however ). It might be an idea if we were to sum up the various approaches so as to be able to clearly categorize them and weigh up the pros and cons of each approach in terms of both feasability and user-friendliness. Then we could perhaps also more easily keep tabs on who was developing what, and what progress was being made. I totally agree, I have been thinking about this myself. Well there have been many calls to index the thread and I did make some moves in that direction. There are some optional view that you can see the thing as an outline that may be worth checking out and a few other hidden navigation tools...a few new ones too I think in the latest upgrade. A lot of the thread was interesting at the time and some may be interested but generally a lot of it is misleading, speculative at best and with some stuff was looking at things that never made it...the 99% perspiration so to speak. There are a few gems in there and a best of would run to many, many pages...perhaps it needs it's own little web site or blog page or something with the best of and pictures put up there. We are however moving close to having conclusive instructions on a few designs. If col puts together something it could have it's own spot in the tutorial section along side my pictorial and the How to make thread and the sustainer sounds thread. I may well even be in a position to make small numbers of coils and perhaps even circuits, or having circuits made...that would give people a straong position for which to work on installation and such...but that is a little way off still... But this thread has only a single focus. It has been instructive though on the motivational and inspirational power of a collaborative community, wouldn't you agree. There are similar forums for home recording and there are facilities (free hosting and the like) to share raw audio data for collaborative efforts even between individuals already in place. It will be a long time if ever that we get to play in real time with any quality (VoIP won't cut it) but sharing musical ideas or even general discussions about anything really is not out of the question. Before coming to this forum I had no experience with the internet, and while I am still not savvy, I can see some amazing possibilities for the next generation at least...but these will be shaped by what we do ourselves. Pet townsend said that if he were growing up today, he would not be picking up a guitar but working on stuff in a home studio and putting it out on the web, I believe. It is hard to go it alone, but finding the people we would ideally collaborate with is hard when they may well live on the otherside of the world. The way we make music may well change and perhaps it will not have the same as setting up a band in the garage or playing a few local gigs...but, it is still something, perhaps something very interesting, all the same... Enough from me...I am ahead of most so I guess I may be the first to experience the new year (I'll be working right through)...so take care all... pete PS...if I am wrong about people not liking the long posts and tangent like qualties of the discussions, feel free to let us know (not that it is likely to stop)...either way... p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zfrittz6 Posted December 30, 2006 Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 Hello, I think that we must propose to the moderators of the forum a section sustainer to classify what she has obtained herself of ordered form and interesting things are not lost. greetings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truth_David Posted December 30, 2006 Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 Au Contrare...people seem to really like these long posts and tangents and speculative rambling... 80,000 visits almost and years of discussion have proved otherwise. (May be worth cutting back on the requoting though to lessen duplication however ). OK, I take your point... Well there have been many calls to index the thread and I did make some moves in that direction. There are some optional view that you can see the thing as an outline that may be worth checking out and a few other hidden navigation tools...a few new ones too I think in the latest upgrade. A lot of the thread was interesting at the time and some may be interested but generally a lot of it is misleading, speculative at best and with some stuff was looking at things that never made it...the 99% perspiration so to speak. There are a few gems in there and a best of would run to many, many pages...perhaps it needs it's own little web site or blog page or something with the best of and pictures put up there. You will see in the following post from zfrittz6 that he is also making this request. However he wrote to me in more detail in that regard. As he has far more experience within this forum than I have, being a relative newbie, I am going to try to put his ideas forward as clearly as possible: In a nutshell he would like to see this thread take an encyclopaedic form with the following classifications:a) Development of projects based upon driver coils. Development of amplifiers and pre-amplifiers. c) Modifications to different instruments. He suggested that each of these categories have its own summary or development to date, including photos, diagrams and sound recordings. He further states that many potentially good ideas are likely to get lost amid the ramblings and sheer number of pages. Now, a point needs to be made here: I fully realize that this is going to be a monumental task, but if someone does not undertake it soon, it is not going to get any easier in the future. I look upon it as being very similar to learning to order one's files on a HD in folders, which need to be properly named, so as to minimize the guess work in finding the files again. Then there is also the option of partitioning the HD. Presently, it seems to me that we have the equivalent of a HD with 155 folders, all with the same name. Thus, we all face a time consuming and exhaustive task whenever we wish to look up any particular theme in this long thread. This is going to make our eventual goal of defining which projects are viable, and which are nearest to completion, or let's say to being able to prove actual results - unnecessarily difficult. Another option might be a search engine, but then it would still be necessary to create subdivisions and definitions, which brings us back to the same point. Perhaps if there were some way in which all those concerned with one of these three basic categories could collaborate together on just collating their section of the thread, (I have no idea how that could be done practically) we could wind up with three teams combining their resources in order to produce an encyclopaedia of sorts, as zfrittz6 envisages. There is also the possibility that at some point someone might gain an interest in developing one or more of these ideas commercially, and at that point this work would become an absolute necessity. And let me say that I see nothing wrong in seeking recompense for the many hours that people put into these projects. We are however moving close to having conclusive instructions on a few designs. If col puts together something it could have it's own spot in the tutorial section along side my pictorial and the How to make thread and the sustainer sounds thread. That would be good too.... I may well even be in a position to make small numbers of coils and perhaps even circuits, or having circuits made...that would give people a straong position for which to work on installation and such...but that is a little way off still... That would be really excellent, especially for those like myself who are really only able to contribute ideas, but who do not have the necessary mindset/skills to actually manufacture the parts and fit them. But this thread has only a single focus. It has been instructive though on the motivational and inspirational power of a collaborative community, wouldn't you agree. Yes, absolutely! But as I say, for those for whatever reason unable to put these ideas to the test physically, it can be very frustrating....especially knowing that several of you actually have working prototypes and are able to make music with them - which is ultimately one of the main goals for these projects. And the more people you have actually using these various approaches in real performance and recording situations, the more the concept is likely to come into focus, being able to see what works and what does not, and the more we are likely to develop specific new techniques on the instrument in question. And it could be any stringed instrument which uses steel or similar strings, not only the guitar... There are similar forums for home recording and there are facilities (free hosting and the like) to share raw audio data for collaborative efforts even between individuals already in place. It will be a long time if ever that we get to play in real time with any quality (VoIP won't cut it) but sharing musical ideas or even general discussions about anything really is not out of the question. This is a complicated issue, because in my own experience it is very easy to lose one's intellectual copywrite for a composition - I won't go into detail here, but there is a group here in Spain who has made a fortune from taking one of my unfinished compositions and (totally out of context) appropriating it in one of their songs (it was an instrumental), and I will never see a penny from it, because someone got all my music off a HD that had been exchanged without my consent during a factory repair under guarantee. And by the time I realized it was too late to do anything about it. So I lost years of work, literally. Now imagine you have written part of a composition, say the guitar parts are all down, but now you need to collaborate on say the drums and keyboards with other musicians; what's to stop them then claiming that it is their composition, and going on to market the recording as their own? Only their own goodwill and character....or a legally binding contract.... Before coming to this forum I had no experience with the internet, and while I am still not savvy, I can see some amazing possibilities for the next generation at least...but these will be shaped by what we do ourselves. Pet townsend said that if he were growing up today, he would not be picking up a guitar but working on stuff in a home studio and putting it out on the web, I believe. It is hard to go it alone, but finding the people we would ideally collaborate with is hard when they may well live on the otherside of the world. The way we make music may well change and perhaps it will not have the same as setting up a band in the garage or playing a few local gigs...but, it is still something, perhaps something very interesting, all the same... Certainly it is possible to 'go it alone', but I do not believe that that makes it a good thing. I wasted several years trying to compose and play all the parts myself to my music. But there is a very important element missing at that point - the feedback you get in communication with other musicians. And many lose sight of this. Let's take Pat Metheny or Chick Corea or Scott Henderson for example: they might well use PC based software in order to compose and get their ideas down, so that they are actually very complete in of themselves. But it is not before actually then presenting the parts to the other band members that the music really takes form. Because God willing they can be inspired, and something you would never have thought of might come out, which then becomes an intrinsic part of the composition. I am sure you understand what I mean - it happens at band rehearsals, on gigs, whatever. But that special moment of inspiration might never arise if you were going it all alone. Now on the other hand there are those who compose as did masters like Mozart or Bach, who whilst they might have been improvising, had such a clear idea of the entire piece they were writing that they were able to write all the parts even without hearing them. But I am not in that space, and I believe that in this day and age very very few are. Enough from me...I am ahead of most so I guess I may be the first to experience the new year (I'll be working right through)...so take care all... pete Enough from me too, Happy New Year to everyone, and God bless, David PS...if I am wrong about people not liking the long posts and tangent like qualties of the discussions, feel free to let us know (not that it is likely to stop)...either way... p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted December 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 OK...so I had a sleep on this... Hello, I think that we must propose to the moderators of the forum a section sustainer to classify what she has obtained herself of ordered form and interesting things are not lost. greetings. I think that this is a good idea and could be done. It is often asked why this thread hasn't been pinned so that it remains in the section above the ongoing topics, given it's popularity. Well...how about we have a shorter thread that gives the essential information without the chatter, all the links and photo's of interest and all the results. We could have this pinned so it is easy to find yet continue this thread. So...before we start something like this, let's here some suggestions on specific things people would like covered, favorite parts of the thread, etc. We already have some threads that were intended to be tutorial...sounds, DIY sustainer, the driver pictorial, for instance, that I tried to do to address these things...I take it that these are not enough or have been lost or lacks continuity? Perhaps 2007 is the time to sum up where we are at and how we got to where we are...post your thoughts... pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spazzyone Posted December 30, 2006 Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 (edited) Hi all i just got a cellphone for my brother in law and it came with this http://www.cell-phone-antenna-booster-whol...ion-shield.html it is suppossed to cancel EMI its also perfect in size in that 2 wide would cover a pickup is it worth looking into? Edited December 30, 2006 by spazzyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
col Posted December 30, 2006 Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 Hi all i just got a cellphone for my brother in law and it came with this http://www.cell-phone-antenna-booster-whol...ion-shield.html it is suppossed to cancel EMI its also perfect in size in that 2 wide would cover a pickup is it worth looking into? WOW that ad is so full of untruth and distortion of truth.... As far as using it for a shield - probably won't be better than some thin sheet steel. The best thing would be one of the many available types of magnetic 'shielding' foils and sheets. Unfortunately, these seem to be expensive.... maybe there are other cellphone shields available that contain a more generous helping of shielding foil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truth_David Posted December 30, 2006 Report Share Posted December 30, 2006 OK...so I had a sleep on this... Hello, I think that we must propose to the moderators of the forum a section sustainer to classify what she has obtained herself of ordered form and interesting things are not lost. greetings. I think that this is a good idea and could be done. It is often asked why this thread hasn't been pinned so that it remains in the section above the ongoing topics, given it's popularity. Well...how about we have a shorter thread that gives the essential information without the chatter, all the links and photo's of interest and all the results. We could have this pinned so it is easy to find yet continue this thread. So...before we start something like this, let's here some suggestions on specific things people would like covered, favorite parts of the thread, etc. We already have some threads that were intended to be tutorial...sounds, DIY sustainer, the driver pictorial, for instance, that I tried to do to address these things...I take it that these are not enough or have been lost or lacks continuity? Perhaps 2007 is the time to sum up where we are at and how we got to where we are...post your thoughts... pete Hi Pete - you know what I would like to see? Some videos of this stuff, the process involved in winding coils, examples of prototypes with devices being mounted and chopped and changed. This would be encouraging for novices like me, as well as allowing a better chance of understanding how you guys are working. Then we could perhaps make the tutorial more interactive, with individual feedback and ideas on each part of the project. I am glad that you now seem to agree that we need to adopt some of zrittz6's and other people's ideas for making the thread more manageable. The idea of pinning the thread seems a good one, as well as keeping the thread going on a reduced scale. That would probably naturally lead to the filing away of information that was not found to be current or of importance in some kind of archive, which could live in another part of the forum. That should go some way to leaving the tutorial thread itself somewhat clearer. Just so you know, for a newcomer it is a real nightmare trying to wade through 150+ pages - this has to be some sort of record! And you can bet that many who might otherwise have made useful contributions will have been scared off by that. Most people just don't have that sort of time, and this stuff is not something you can really work with by skimming through, especially when there are diagrams and circuit boards and such materials involved. I'm not sure whose responsability this part of the forum is, but it surely wouldn't hurt to delegate some of the work to others involved in the various projects. What about if you were to ask for each person who had contributed material to the project to make a summary of the key points of their own contribution, giving details of what the purpose and goal was, materials used and costs involved, an honest appraisal of how far the project had moved forward in such and such a time frame, and perhaps making any shortcomings known, so that specific points could be pinned for those interested to contribute their ideas and information. And finally, provide photos, and any recordings or other supplementary material. Then, these could be categorized under headings, and perhaps each type of project could have its own mini-thread or sub-thread. The next step might be to then validate each type of project in terms of practicality and its actual stage of development, and concentrate on the projects that are nearest completion. Then gradually begin to pay attention to the projects that are developing more slowly, and get people interested in collaborating with a view to moving those projects ahead in their development. Once you have several parts of the project at a similar stage of near completion, they can then be compared in order to decide which is the more practical, and for what application. And at some point, perhaps you might find that some of the presently separate ideas might actually be possible to combine into a new form and in turn lead to ideas you might not have considered before.... And it might also be good to have a list of all ideas, with some way of indicating if they were useful or redundant, but the main idea being to collate all of them, with a note of whose ideas they are for future reference. Then when someone comes to the list with what they think are new and exciting ideas, they will have some insight into what ideas have already been considered. But this will grow into a pool of ideas from which new ideas can be generated. And maybe a wish list wouldn't be a bad idea either... Another idea might also be to have a list of contributors, with contact details, and the ideas they have contributed and projects they are involved in, so that this can all be seen at a glance even somewhere outside of the main body of the thread. Just an attempt at some non linear thinking.... David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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