madhattr88

"the Baptist"   Build 1116

Body - Mahogany

Tops - Indian Rosewood, Blue Stained Figured Maple

Neck - Mahogany w/rosewood strip

Nut - Bone

Headplate - Blue Stained Figured Maple

Pickguard, TRC - Figured maple

Fingerboard - Cocobolo   25" Scale   1-11/16 @ nut  x  2-1/16 @ 12th

Bridge - Tone-Pros Wraparound

Pick-up - Seymour Duncan Phat Cat P-90

Finish - Tru-oil

www.rinkerguitars.com

www.facebook.com/rinkerguitars

You can polish with 3M Finesse-It II.   It will remove most of the scratches and wiping marks from the tru-oil.  Just do it pretty lightly.

i got the wax in the mail.  did not like it at all

16 hours ago, ScottR said:

I have not tried that, but agree it should work. I'd love to see a shot of what you get when you try it out!

SR

i started a test piece and will post the results next week.

tru-oil on bare wood (about three coats)

then use water based timbermate grain fill

finally finish with 6-9 more coats of tru-oil

i'm gonna test on scrap, but i don't see why it wouldn't work.  the oil based (tru-oil) shouldn't react with the water based filler... or WILL IT????

i am NOT interested in the "sand tru-oil slurry grain fill" method.  :-)

love u guys!    hug and kisses  XOXOXOXO

thanks!!!!!!

here is is after i used scotchbrite to knock it back.  I applied the sheen and conditioner to  half the top and half the back for comparison.

the wax is in the mail.  should get it this week.  i'll post again after i apply it.

can anyone give me some advice on using shellac as a sealer coat over the stain and pore fill?  i've notices small "splotchy" areas on the stained surface.  i'm wondering if i didn't knock back the shellac enough.  i was scared of sanding through..  anyone use shellac as a sealer?  how many coats?  what lb cut? do u sand it?  what grit?

16 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said:

That's a lovely finish and great looking guitar 

thanks!!!!   believe or not, the more i look at this thing i don't like the finish.  Tru-oil brings out the grain depth, but since i polished it with Finesse-It, its too shiny.  Almost like its wrapped in plastic wrap.  Not what i want.  So i'm gonna scotchbrite the whole thing and use Birchwood Casey Sheen and Conditioner and then their wax.

thanks!!!    Not a stained one anyway.

Just a follow up.   i used 3M Finesse-It II and it worked great. 

here u can see the dried streaks from wipin

and then the final product after Finesse -IT

6 minutes ago, ScottR said:

I'd start with a good rubbing/polishing compound hand rubbed and see how it does. Is that what that 3M Finesse It-II is?

If that doesn't do it, then micromesh, starting in the middle grades.

SR

that's what Finesse-It II is suppose to do.  I've been searching the internet for any info on polishing tru-oil.

11 minutes ago, verhoevenc said:

I like my tru-oil satin so I use a synthetic 0000 steel wool (grey color) and then the next step up they have (white color... don't know the grit).

Chris

thanks, but i'm looking for a gloss look.

After 11 coats of tru-oil, everything is nice and flat, however, you can see the wiping marks/streaks on the flat surfaces.

Its been curing for 8 days...probably wait another 8.

Do you think a good rubbing of 3M Finesse It-II will remove them?   Burlap maybe???

If not, what will???   I don't want to go buff/polish.sand thru the top layer of tru-oil.

Thanks!

Absolutely stunning!!!!!

The grain filler isnt your problem at all. You can still use that.

If you sand through anywhere on any type of finish, it is always going to be lighter colored, and will never match again unless you strip it. I have had that happen many times.

Only way around that is to apply more finish in the areas that be prone to sand throughs.

Do you think i am sanding in stages where i shouldn't be? Like after the shellac seal coats? Although it is rough after it dries.

Is there any way to avoid sanding the filler. Maybe wipe the excess off the surface with a damp rag or burlap with a "spritz" of water?

After having sand-through problems on a couple of builds, I switched to sanding sealer/finish starting at 1000. Sure drips and runs take longer, but I have had significantly less sand-through. I bought a box of 50 sheets of 1000 and it should last me a very long time, as I tend to use about 1 per guitar is all. I also don't sand roundovers/small bevels until I get to about 1500 or 2000 grit, as you really don't need to take much material from those parts. The last guitar turned out much better with only one tiny spot of sandthrough where there was a drip. I was able to touch it up and is now all but invisible. Hoping the next one will have 0 total sand-through.

Sounds good. Can you go into more detail? Do u use shellac as a sealer? what pound cut? are you finishing with tru-oil? grain filler? thanks!!!

This is not an answer to any of the questions, but a stupid question of my own: does it make sense to put tru-oil over shellac? I though oil is supposed to soak into the wood ... or is tru-oil unlike e.g. danish oil in that respect?

it works fine. the only reason i use shellac is to seal the rosewood. trust me, i've had tru-oil curing problems with rosewood before. never had one when i seal with shellac. tru-oil is not like danish oil. it builds nicely if you put it on thin. but next time i may skip the timbermate grain fill and put on a heavy coat of tru-oil, then sand with it to make a slurry to fill the pores. just worried about sanding through again.

I will also start sanding with 1000 grit as Ripthorn suggested.

my latest project has been quite interesting to say the least.

trying to finish this one with tru-oil.

the body is a mahogany - rosewood - mahogany "sandwich"

i didn't want the rosewood color to bleed and tru-oil doesn't adhere to rosewood well, so after staining the mahogany top, i used a pre-val sprayer and sprayed 2 coats of 1lb cut shellac.

now the problems began. i sanded the dried shellac, before pore-filling, with 320 and sanding through the red AND other parts of the shellac. So i switched to scotch brite pad. you can see in the pic i did half the top and took a pic.

Applied timbermate water based grain filler (dyed black). Picture shows it drying.

Sanded the filler with 320 and sanded through in a bunch of areas, especially the edges on both the top AND the sides/back. Now these areas are discolored and much lighter than the rest.

Sprayed 2 more coats of 1lb cut shellac to seal everything. Look what happened on the edges.

After 5 thin coats of tru-oil, this is what i got. The edges look much different then the rest. (sigh)

Normally I have someone finish my bodies in nitro lacquer, but since this guitar is a gift, i didn't have the extra cash laying around. I wanted to have it done for Thanksgiving, so I can't start over.

But, can anyone tell me what I did wrong??? or right? i'm willing to bet i sanded to much.

I would much rather do the tru-oil sand/slurry method for filler next time, but again, worried about sanding through the shellac seal coat and colored top.

How would you guys have done this?????

Part 9:

http://youtu.be/hvf6noPFdBs

Just watched part 8 of you "warhorse" video series. Just wondering what kind of finish and process you applied?

waterbased stain? what did u wipe on after the stain? and the final buffing?

thanks!

I have a mahogany body I want to stain a translucent red and finish high gloss.

Anyone see any problems with the following procedure?

1) Wipe body with damp cloth

2) Wipe-on Waterbased Red Stain/Dye

3) Zpoxy Grain Fill

4) Wipe-On Polyurethane

5) Wet Sand, Buff and Polish

Only spray equipment I have is a Pre-val sprayer.

Will any of the liquids interact with another? (smearing, not curing, etc)

Would oil based or alcohol based stain / dye be more stable?

Should I make a wash coat of thinned polyurethane? Is it needed? is so, why?

Thanks guys!!!!!!

This is excellent advice. Thank u for sharing.

My next build, I will do exactly what u do.

After reading your post, it looks like I need to start using different truss rods. I've been using the 2-way hot rod from stew Mac (the red wrapped one). Maybe thats my problem. Can u post a link to the ones u use? Thanks again!!!

+1 everything Carl said.

Now for my take. You are doing it wrong.

You are making this way to complicated.

Make the neck straight. Adjust the truss rod to a neutral position but take up the slack (right as you see it move the neck stop)

True the fretboard as flat as humanly possible, no relief, no drop off. Follow the path of the strings with the straight sanding block. In order to do this by hand you must support the back of the neck as the pressure from you pushing on the sanding blocks might bow the neck. Check the straightness along the path of the strings using a precision straight edge (rulers are not straight). Blow the dust off and look for daylight under the straight edge. If you see light try again.

Make sure the fret slots are the right depth (a hair deeper than the tang of the fret) because large hollows under frets are tone suckers. Blow the dust out of them and then use a depth gauge to check them and clean any packed dust in.

Fret it carefully. Don't drive a fret too deep or leave one too high. This is why I use a 1-ton press with brass cauls so I can carefully seat the frets. When you eyeball down the neck they should all look uniform in height.

String it for a day tuned to pitch.

Remove the strings, carefully support the neck and tape up the fretboard.

Dress the frets. Ron Kirn explains this pretty well however he forgot to tape the fretboard and he needs a real buffer

Buff the frets to a high polish on a nice buffing wheel with some nice rouge.

Throw out the neck jig.

Use the space for a beer fridge.

Stop sending Stew Mac your money.

Write Dan Erlewine a letter telling him he is doing it wrong.

\m/

i made the neck-string tension jig. Trust me, i am cheap, i would never spend $300+ on that Dan Erlewine thing.

so what u are telling me is, your fingerboard and frets are perfectly straight when it is "stringless" and the truss rod is in the neutral position?

the neck will be concave when strung up....do u use the rod to straighten it back??? how do u add relief at the 8th fret area?

i've done this method before, and did not like the results.... it created a "hump" at the 14th-16th frets. could never get low action after that.

Anyone find sanding some fall off into the FB helpful? If yes, how much and from what fret?

I've been doing this using a string tension jig, but the more I think about it, I may be doing more harm then good. The board is going to have a back bow after the frets are hammered in. (Just the way it goes). So sanding just the fretless neck and board under simulated string tension may be overkill. Just wondering how you guys do it? Fret board leveling, fret leveling, rid adjustments, etc.

Thanks!!!

So my follow up question for you guys is... For new builds, not repair work.... Do u sand the Fretboard flat before installing frets? Sand with a drop? Sand under tension? Or just level the frets and leave the fretboard alone. Maybe I am doing too much prep work to the fretboard.

What does everyone else do???