ACSpike

There are no set lengths. One possibility is a gibson scale on the high e and a fender scale on the low e. But it can get much more radical than that. A quick search here or at mimf is very likely to turn up many opinions on the subject. As for slotting the neck, here is one suggestion.

Then the plum I had might do the trick. Send me an email and I will see if my father can locate it.

I had a few plum logs around but they were small (as I expect most plum would be) and full of insect holes. Do you really think you could make a guitar out of that? I think it would be to small to book match.

GregP, I'd still love to hear what you have to say. In the meantime though I think I have DXF and PDF output working in FretFind 2-D, do either of those work for printing, frank? And I'm looking for the opinion of a CAD user. Is that DXF useful for pasting into CAD drawn guitar plans or can I do better? I've never really used a CAD package more than long enough to be confused.

This doesn't really have much relevance to how the thread turned out, but the title is what got me motivated to answer a question that has been bugging me for a few weeks now: How close to perfect does the fret placement have to be? Here's my quickie proof of concept fretting tolerance calculators page.

I'm all ears.

Thanks for the welcome. I'm not away. I'm just multitasking. =) I tried printing SVG fretboards after work today using SodiPodi and the GIMP. They print but not quite to scale and only what fits on the first page. There probably is a trick to make it work but it is beyond me right now. So... I'm looking for alternatives. Tonight I tried putting together PDF and DXF output for FretFind 2-D. I don't think either are quite right yet (not sure DXF works at all). But please give them a try. You will find the links to download other formats below the PNG image on the results page. Properly scaled printable fretboards are on the way, I hope.

The way my site works right now the fret lines don't converge unless the bridge and nut widths are equal. I'm not sure if that is right, wrong or just different. I'm waiting for an someone who really knows to step forward and tell me. In the mean time I'm learning a whole lot more about multi-scaled instruments concepts and questions here in the forum as well as at MIMF and Talk Bass. There is some good threads out there. I think I might have to write another front end that supports the converging fret concept. I just revamped my explanation of the perpendicular distance concept (my perpendicular fret replacement) after I got a few user questions. Does it make more sense now? About printing. I really have no practical experience with any of this stuff. I'm making the page because it is what I would need to design the next few instruments I'm planning and I would hate to re-calculate and re-draw everytime I change a scale a quarter inch. So I haven't really used it and I don't think anyone else has either. (Please tell me if you do.) I was hoping that as people used it I could get some feedback and tips to make it better. That includes printing support. There are a number of programs that will print SVG and more are adding support all the time. I might have to tweak the SVG format a bit to support certain programs. like I'm pretty sure you can't just open up a FretFind SVG in SodiPodi or Inkscape (free open source SVG editors) and print it yet. OpenOffice or the GIMP might be a possibility. I think we can probably find a program to do it and do it free (which is important on my budget). The problem might be the printer. The bigest printer I have at work will do 11x17 but my last fretboard was 19 inches long. I always have trouble lining things up on multiple pages, especially when it needs to be exact like fret spacings. Send me an email and I'll help you work it out. No I haven't even thought about radiusing. I'm saving that for FretFind 3-D. I just need to find a mathematical genius to contribute that feature. Fretwave is another thing on my todo list for FretFind. Bent frets are a great idea for just intonations. I'd love to think of a way to incorporate that maybe just using SVGs cubic splines. I'm gonna go google for Earvana. I've never heard of that.

I don't know much about the Feiten system but from what I've heard they are completely different. A fretted string stretches, that makes it slightly longer and tighter. The Feiten system is is meant to compensate for the intonation problems this causes up the neck. He moves the nut a little closer to the bridge and then tunes each string a few cents out of tune. It makes the guitar sound more in tune (pitch). The multi-scale and novax systems are not compensation. They adjust the lengths of the strings to equalize the tension accross the neck. From what I've been told the tension of a string actually affects the harmonic content of the plucked note. Some feel that this makes the notes sound better (timber). So they aren't mutually exclusive. You could use both systems and have a guitar the sounds good and plays in tune.

So that is what that MIMF thread was about. Can't wait to read it when it gets into the library. In the mean time I probably just made a few people roll thier eyes over there by posting basically the same thing to a new thread. Oops. I'm glad you got a chance to try my site. Please let me know if there is anyway you think I can make it better or more useful. It is so hard to get feedback and it certainly doesn't help that multi-scale and just intonation fretboards are such an exotic topic. Thanks Tim. Thats exactly the sort of research I've been doing. It looks like there just isn't a definitive resource out there for multi-scale or novax fretboards.

Tim, could you elaborate on those concerns a bit? I still haven't gotten to see that thread at MIMF, so I don't know exactly what you mean. I started with some questions about multi-scaled frets stopping the strings in the correct places (is that what you mean by intonation here). That was around '99 and the guys in rec.music.makers.builders assured me that it all works out fine. Earlier this year I finally got around to working out the math myself. I don't think it gets anymore dificult that the y=mx+b stuff I learned in high school unless you start working with compensation for stretching and higher tension in depressed strings. The result of my working out the math was the design tool that I mentioned above. It is coded in PHP and GPLed so if anyone knowledgeable about multi-scaled fretboards wanted to take a look at the code and my math I would much appreciate it. Tim, I'd love to hear about your research too. And if you are worring about doing the math to design a multi-scaled fretboard my tool could be the answer. (Point me to the thread if I am revisiting something here.) A question came up as I was discussing my tool with a guitarist from Sweden the other day. He noticed that my tool doesn't always create designs in which the frets when extended to infinity converge in a single point. I remember reading something about that in Ralph's patent. Is that a requirement for a Novax design. If so is that the difference between Novax and Multi-scaled fretboards?

If anyone wants to get a feel for how different scale lengths look together without drawing your own diagrams, please try my multi-scale fretboard design tool :FretFind 2-D. Right now I'm trying to research whether it designs multi-scale or actual fanned fretboards. I just don't know the difference. I wish I could get a copy of the heated discussion at MIMF that I see mentioned everywhere.

My father and I also built a mitrebox for fret slotting and measuring. Pictures here. I can't speak as to its accuracy but I think the design could be tweaked a bit. It consists of plywood,40 thread per inch rod, a few coupling nuts and a circle cutter. Brazing the nut on removed most of the play in the threads. 40 turns moves the fretboard an inch. I used a spreadsheet to calculate turns per fret and the face of an old clock to measure fractional turns. Planned to add a counter and a motor, but that was in '96 and it hasn't happened yet. It also hasn't seen much use. Might be an idea for someone who wants to do many different or odd scale lengths. I liked it because I'm cheep/poor and the parts only cost a few bucks. For me it definately beat the ruler taped to the fretboard method.