al s.

Mr. McSeem. It's good to see you back here. I follow the forum..... but don't post much. The clips you posted earlier were so amazing that when you disappeared I figured you were going underground..... working on a patent for that system. Those sounds were so incredible. The new clips are interesting.. and I can imagine that the guitarist was surprised at the sound. It's different for sure. But they don't grab me like the sustained strings of your previous clips. Of course that's just my subjective opinion.... but I'm hoping you don't abandon the beauty of the sustaining string.

McSeem. your latest soundclip is just awesome. A wonderful balanced chord sustain. And those beautiful harmonic overtones! Is it all that sound coming from the strings? Its hard (for me) to keep up with your technical explanations but I love the direction that you are going, and I look forward to your posts.

edit.. question answered in a post above.

Well. RE. the above post... I think that I have a flaw in my theory.: It actually helps to write these idea out. So thanks for indulging me. A note will only bloom when it is hit with a 180 degree phase shift, Right? That is necessary to cancel out the fundamental and allow a harmonic to take over My variable phase shift would only vary which frequency was getting 180 degrees... all the others would have a different shift. and not bloom at all. Not exactly what I was looking for I was hoping to get adjustable harmonics on the same note. Well not to loose all hope.. What if you pumped in Harmonics from a pedal like this http://www.bossus.com/gear/productdetails.php?ProductId=147 into the sustainer in order to overpower the fundamental? I know.. probably not worth the effort, but what do you think of the theory?

Well., as has been mentioned..everyone has different goals for their sustainer. My thing is I love the blooming harmonics created by a sustainer. And my goal is to achieve lots and lots blooming notes... with some degree of control. There are some things that I think I have learned from this forum... ( I could certainly be wrong --- please feel free to correct me!) I think that "harmonic mode" works by shifting the phase of the signal to the driver by 180 degrees from the frequency put out by the pickup..... which acts to cancels out the main string vibration and allows a less dominant frequency to take over and be sustained..........creating the "harmonic" bloom. Right so far? Also besides reversing the leads to the driver, modifications to the amp circuit are capable of causing some degree of phase shifting.. For example Pete's current circuit that causes his lower strings bloom. And one of Col's posted circuits that has selectable (rotary switch) built-in filters specifically for this purpose. I am wondering if this theory is correct.... Phase shifting is nothing more than very small delay between the input frequency (pickup) and the output frequency (driver signal) For example for the frequency 440 hz ( open A) the string is vibrating 440 times a sec. If a delay was put on the signal of equal to half the frequency (220hz) then the phase would be shifted 180 degrees. this works out to be a delay of 1/220 = .0045 sec or 45ms. (if my math is correct!) And a given delay would have more or less phase shift on the different frequencies. The point is that a circuit that could create adjustable delay with a pot could have infinitely variable phase shifting,. and the ability to dial in all the harmonics available to a guitar. So, the question is has anyone tried tiny delays on the driver signal? Are such small delays even possible? I was looking at this chip. PT2399 http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/...on/mXyzsyzt.pdf It has delays as low as 31ms...adjustable upward by changing the value of R. (put the pot here) These are longer delays than desired, but wouldn't a longer delay (within reason) serve the same purpose....phase shifting? I know people have mentioned trying delay pedals on the driver signal. and got weird effects but that is a much larger delay. Anyway, I'm not able to work on my sustainer project at the moment. But cant stop me from theorizing!

Re... adjustable pole pieces. The reason I asked this question was because some people had recently posted about drivers which used pole pieces:. ..specifically Elmo, and Hank. It seemed to me that the common problem of uneven string response could be alleviated by varying the pole-heights. I guess that my armchair logic failed again! I see that if I had thought it thru I would have realized: if that were the case then varying the pole-height of the pickup pole would have the same effect. But alas, I know that doesn't work.. .. for the reasons Pete pointed out. I know many have built successful AGC into their circuits and achieved an even string response. (Latest clips by Fresh Fizz were great!) But I didn't remember reading of someone who actually tried varied pole heights. Anyone tried a multi-band Equalizer between the driver signal and its amp? Thanks ALL for the awesome discussion!

Hi... a few questions about sustainer drivers.... Surely, some people out there have already tried these ideas and the answers are known. My questions are about using cylindrical pole pieces for the driver......(as opposed to rails) #1 Is there a problem with bending strings? #2 can you vary the the pole height to even out the string response to the driver? #3 would rare earth magnets be effecitive as the pole cylinders? #4 per the fernandes patent... an air gap between the magnet and the pole piece has an effect. anybody tried it? Thanks. Al S

I don't know guys. Sounds like feedback to me Looks like feedback too... I see the strings moving. Even feels like feedback... I can brush the string into a new harmonic, or stop the sound by damping the string. . Maybe someone could post a clip of some "real" feedback. By the way... it will sustain until next tuesday..... You will have to trust me on that. A couple of corrections. The driver is mounted in the same position as Pete's Tele. That clip is two drivers side-by-side simulating a dual-rail driver. But I get a similar effect from the single pole driver The neck pickup is totally disconnected on this clip. I don't know about "fizz" Everything is perfectly silent at full power with the strings damped. You can hear fizz when the amp is cranking? The driver amp is 7watts. But it is also 3 watts, 1/10th watt and everything in between.. it has a volume knob. I'm sure the sound on the clip is not everyone's cup of tea. I am very happy with it. I'm sure its obtainable with Pete's driver. The physics are exactly the same. I get the feeling you are searching to to explain something that has a very simple explanation . a more powerful amp. AL

Hi Pete. You just had to make me lug my guitar up from the garage didn't you? In defense of the tiny strong magnets AL

ten string version...? Well it is a natural for a pedal steel guitar, and their quest for sustain....... Pete. I sent you an email. from albert105 please retrieve it from your trash. AL

Hi Col. See. this is why I don't post more. Can't keep my foot out of my mouth... Your working with a dual core driver!. I missed your last post. It sure seems like it should work well....doesn't it? I' m glad you are taking it further. And watchin for your results. So many variables though. Wire gauge, impedence, polarity. power requirement. It boggles my mind. I was just thinking. Does anybody ever think about the pioneers of the sustainers? Just, guys like us tinkering in their garage.... No internet, no discussions, just plodding away by themselves.... yet and they came up with something we can barely duplicate. Hats off Mr. Hoover!

Hi. More news from the thin driver front. Nice to see a little excitement Pete. Although, its hard to imagine..... after three years of this stuff? I"ve been thinking about it for 6 months,working on it for 4 months and I'm getting burned out. So thanks for the encouragement. Anyway.. I was comparing some drivers side by side up above the neck pickup and on a whim I hooked them up in parallel. I"ll be damned! No EMI and much better defined Harmonic/ Sustain modes. The parallel setup also worked on the inside of the neck pickup. I couldn't go all the way to the center between the neck and the bridge because of the EMI became overwhelming. But now it is tantalizingly close. And this was just thrown together. I've been searching the forum.. and came across the Spazzyone era. Lots of discussion about dual rails and bi-lateral drivers. And yet here we are still with single pole drivers. Not that I don't like their performance. In fact I don't know that I even want a driver in the mid position... Seems like it might alter the harmonics, not to mention interfering with picking. But it does have advantages...ie. ease of installation, etc. So my question is: Why were dual rail and bilateral drivers abandoned.? Especially since we know that they can work cause this is the way the sustainiac does it. Am I just another lost soul in search of the holy grail??! AL

HI. There are some pic in the link of making a driver from a magnet. They will save a lot of explaining http://s651.photobucket.com/albums/uu234/alex1111115/ All that is necessary are two steel bars about 3/4 inch by 3 inches about 1/8 thick. Wrap the bars with aluminum foil ( to release the epoxy) *Then sandwich the magnet pieces between the bars.* The strength of the magnets will hold the whole sandwich together while it is wrapped. Finally, clamp the sandwich and if necessary massage the wire into a good shape before the epoxy dries. **This is the tricky part. The magnets must have a pole face against the steel. Check by holding a steel pin to see that it is attracted to the center of the face...not the side. Also important. the ends of the magnets must REPEL. Fortunately their attraction to the steel will hold them in place despite this repulsion. And most important. .. be sure the magnets are centered and in in line after they are sandwiched, before they are wrapped.. they tend to want to get crooked. I told you it was easy! Al

Hi. Re: the drivers with the neodymium magnets. They work great. With the exception of a few dead spots on the fretboard they drive all the strings to feedback. I've experimented with different sized magnets. I've used these with success: http://www.magnet4less.com/product_info.ph...;products_id=33 1/8 th inch thick. can be placed farther from the strings .. about the same distance as a pickup http://www.kjmagnetics.com/proddetail.asp?prod=BX021 1/16 thick! must be closer to the strings AL

Hi. I just want to pass on something that is working well for me,... in the area of the stand- alone driver. as in Pete's Telecaster. I have been winding the magnet itself. The neodymium ones . No steel,. no bobbins. just the magnet and the winding. It makes a very small package. . There are a couple tricks to know, but the procedure is actually very easy... If there is interest, I will elaborate. I haven't tried these drivers with a 386 amp, so I would be curious to to see how they compare in sound to Pete's thin style driver. But it seems to me that the principle is the same.. They do great in my setup. And they may have some advantages...:ease of construction, size , etc. Al

Hi Adiel and Pete. Thanks for the welcome. I'm still having "fun with feedback"! Pete, It seems that you have a good handle on my experiment. You are right on about the advantages and limitations of "acoustic feedback" There are definite "hot spots" and "dead zones" For example my g-string is an amazing live wire its whole length. I can bend nearly any note into a mutation of sound. The low E string also feeds back when open at the drop of a hat. Other strings and notes are much less prone to feedback. By increasing volume on the transducer amp, though, I can get any note to sustain and then feed back. This is where I am thinking a volume pedal would work well. This requires damping of the other strings, though. because the "dead notes", when given enough volume/vibration to feedback when excited by striking, is already enough volume to cause the 'live' strings to be excited on their own at this volume/ vibration level. I am wondering if this is all a factor of the acoustics of my particular guitar, and that each guitar would be different? You are also correct that the transducer itself makes some noise. It is audible at very high volume levels, though, higher than I am normally using when playing around. An even then its hard to tell because it is the same frequencies coming out of the guitar amp. So over all it is not annoying, it could even be considered an "effect"..... "screaming guitar head" ! Putting the transducer on the body of the guitar was noisier though, it wanted to turn the guitar into a speaker. You are also absolutely right that this whole setup is not very stealthlike! Extra wires dangling, Not to mention the hockey puck attached to the head of the guitar. Oh, it is now clamped on with a capo. How inventive is that? I think it could all be cleaned up a bit though. Hiding wires, etc. Of course, this system will never be a elegant as the little driver/mini amp solution. I guess you could call this "acoustic" version quick and dirty. Still, it is a lot of fun. By the way you mentioned putting the head of the guitar against the amp to get feedback. Way back in the thread someone, a bass player, I think, mentioned this and thats what lead me to try this. Am I correct that this feedback that I am getting is the sound we are familiar with from records, concerts, etc? Then the mini amp/driver/fernandes method is a totally unique sound...? I've heard your sound clips. Very nice!! They do have an "other worldly" feel. Some day I'll get my hands on one of those. Meanwhile back to my Jimi imitations.........Al

Hi all. I read the WHOLE thread! You're right PSW... it should be read backward. Well. I'm feeding-back like a a madman on my guitar right now. It seems kind of fitting on the fourth of July. I feel like Jimi Hendrix playing the Star Spangled Banner. Anyway, here's what I did. I don't claim it is DIY...more like lateral thinking. I went in the direction of the Sustainiac Model C. I bought this "GHOST TRANSDUCER from "Vidsonix" http://www.vidsonix.com/vidsonixnew/info_vxgh72.htm You can read all the specs at the website.. I made the hook-up like this: I clipped the wire from the bridge pickup and attached a guitar cable directly to it. Then plugged that into the input of a little practice amp (25W yamaha) Then disconnected the speaker in the amp and attached the leads from the "Ghost Transducer" Now, playing the guitar, the neck pick up acts normally and goes to my little Vox DA5 5watt amp. The bridge pick up is now amplifying the Ghost Transducer.... It actually works like they say it does because when I hold it against the wall, or the wood floor it acts like a speaker. Well. you can see where I'm headed.. right? Holding the Ghost transducer against the guitar body makes it feedback like crazy. Not electomagnetically, I can get that if i hold it to close to the neck pickup. This is vibrational. Right now I have it clamped to the head of my SG with clothes pins. It acts just like the Sustainiac website says about their Model C ....As if l the guitar is alive in your hands. Here's some specifics, with the transducer on the head: The yamaha amp is run at about 1/2 volume, and 1/4 distortion. Base and treble at middle Changing the settings of volume an distortion produce diffefrent feed back characteristics. Also, strangely , by changing the settings on my Vox amp (it has "style" and "effects" settings) the feedback characteristics change. Also the feed back is consistant.. that is, at given settings. certain strings, and certain notes seem to dominate. String muting is required because sometimes a given string or two just starts to vibrate at some harmonic. Not only the string your are playing. Chords are fun. One or two stings take over and just go to their own place in about 3 seconds. It all seems to me pretty much as described on he Sustainiac website about their Model C. I did try switching leads to see if one phase acted different than the other. But they both seemed similar to me. As far as sustain... depending on the settings... some notes will sustain forever... some act normally, and some start feeding back. All strings will feed back, but hi e has to be coaxed into it by bending or vibrato. It is very fun. learning to control the feedback. There are obviously infinite possibilities. The vibrations causing he feedback could be manipulated with pedals, or amp effects. After only a day of playing around, I can see a whammy bar would be useful, and also a volume pedal. Turning up either the volume, or the distortion is what brings on the feedback. Like I said,,above 1/2 and the guitar is uncontrollable. So maybe the 25 watt practice amp is a good fit. Anyway... this this does work!! Is it any cheaper that the sustainiac? Maybe not .. Transducer $25. Practice Amp ?$100. pickup signal spliter... ?$$$ and electronics..??$$$. but it is a definite option for a DIY project. I'm glad that I could finally add something to this thread. I've been enjoying it for a long time. I must say PSW. You are the most generous person wiith your time and knowledge that I have yet seen on the internet. Thank you