Supernova9

Funny how you get trade-offs in life - like cocobolo, beautiful wood, but work with it for any length of time and it can really mess up your skin, lungs, yeesh.

Ok, so im trying to make my first guitar, a solid body unique shape. I know you guys are ravenous for pics, so im going to take and post some ASAP. ive been watching this forum for the past week or so, and ive been getting alot of ideas. My dad found a BEAUTIFUL piece of mahoghany on the local interstate, 10 feet long, 12 in wide, and 1 three quarter inches thick. My fingerboard will be a stewy mac rosewood, an all in one wrap over bridge, and im going to carve my own nut with a knife. My neck is a cherry piece, but my problem is that im trying to make a 25 in scale with 24 frets. Im not exactly sure how i should connect the neck to the body, i think that a set neck is going to be too weak, and i want to angle my neck back like a gibson. Is it possible to bolt on the neck and get that angle without putting in wedges? what im thinking is to shave down the square where the neck joins.

Sry there is no Pics, and im going to ask about the pups i want to use, but ive got to go now.

If you think that a set neck is too weak, you need to read some more because you obviously don't have a great understanding.

Well, I suppose this is going to sound really unprofessional, but I've decided to change the direction this project is going in enteirly. I realized that the fact that the body was too big might be a blessing in disguise, and decided that I don't really need three electric guitars, but I do need a bass for recording. So, It's going to be a 34" scale 4 string bass. I suppose you could call that turning a mistake into a design feature. As for the neck, I took it to my friends house, a friend who has a real shop. I did end up cutting a channel out of the body, and setting the neck in that. Im pleased with how It's turning out now.

Stop and draw everything out in 1:1 scale.

That's why you had to scrap the original guitar style. I will bet you a brand new 14" bandsaw that if you stopped and planned it out it would go much better.

I've got a router jig where the angled sides screw on, I spent 1 hour one afternoon making angled sides, and now I have 10,13,15 and 17 inch sides ready to screw on. With that and a #4 plane, it's easy work.

Perry - looking at that diagram, looks like a pretty short edge to pass over the jointer? or is that just my misunderstanding

Thank you Rich.

I understand about those woods, but yet I see 335's with maple tops and steel strings with maple backs.

I wonder why spruce wouldn't be used on backs too if it were the best wood.

It is true what you say, but what manufacture's use sometimes puzzles me.

Even in Martin's catalogs they explain the virtues of the finest spruce, but they also make the Koa top.

Beautiful, but I have not heard one yet.

I wonder how much is just because of tradition. I know how fickle the guitar field is.

Anyone out there build a spruce backed steel string? Or solid wood tops?

Thank for the help,

Mike

You see 335s with laminated maple tops. Not solid.

As for backs/sides, they're not made out of spruce as the top is the primary vibrating/resonating part (other acoustic gurus here may correct me here) the back and sides aren't as important as the top. Also, the reason for spruce is the strength to weight ratio, because the top takes up the string tension far more than the back and sides. You want it strong enough to stop the strings pulling it apart, but light enough still to resonate when played and therefore project.

Maple would need to be heavier than spruce to reach the same level of strength, thus wouldn't vibrate as readily, and therefore isn't used as often. However, on backs it'll hold together much better. Backs are less critical to the strength of the guitar as they are not holding string tension.

A simple search brings up:

http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.ph...l=rosewood+neck

http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.ph...l=rosewood+neck

http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.ph...l=rosewood+neck

http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.ph...l=rosewood+neck

http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.ph...l=rosewood+neck

The last two are by David Myka, and real top quality builds.

can we see a bunch of 3D designs of what it might look?

Perry, you just made me laugh so hard I spewed coke all over my keyboard

Well, I got the top and bottom of the body blank glued up and everything went well there. The glue set up a bit faster than I expected. Perhaps because of the heat? Also managed to finish hand sanding the template so that it was nice and smooth.

This evening I had a little time in the father-in-laws shop to work on the build. Managed to get the body rough cut. It went fairly smoothly. I found that taking my time was the most important thing. I managed to get it quite close, within 1/8th to 1/16th. You can see the red sharpie line in the picture that shows where the inside of the template went to. I figured if I got to the edge of that line I would leave myself a fairly easy job when it came to finishing the outside of the body. Which brings me to the first dilemma of the build. Do I route the edge using a pattern bit or use a robosander? I'm not sure which way I'm going to go with that yet.

In the meantime I need to firm up my neck design. Since I decided to do a laminate neck rather than building it out of a 1" strat style blank that frees me up a little bit. I need to make the modifications in CAD and hopefully next weekend i'll have a chance to go pick up some maple for the neck. The nearest hardwood store that i've found is about 45 minutes away, which makes it tough to go on a weekday.

Anyway, so far so good. I'm pleasantly surprised how well things have gone so far. I know that I'm still in the infancy stage of the build, but cutting out the body makes you feel like you have finally done something significant after spending so much time preparing the blank and template.

If you're 1/8" to 1/16" from your final size, use a router to do the final shaping. When you're that close there's far less risk of tearout.

I've got an LV-03E (that's the larrivee shape with a cutaway and electronics), and I like it. In terms of sound, compared to other makers like Martin or Taylor, it kinda tends to sit in the middle - a balanced sound, not too bright, not too bassy/boomy. But that's not a negative thing, I find Martin's too boomy, and Taylors too bright, so it works for me.

I've had absolutely no problems in terms of durability, and mine gets a decent amount of pounding as I lug it around, no splits or anything. If that D03 works for you and makes you want to play more because of it's sound, then that can only be a good thing, buy it!

The design change I think I have made - until I decide to unmake it(!!) is not to either round over the top and bottom, nor relieve the waist at the back. I am going to veneer the top and edges and bind the top and bottom, leaving the maple back showing. My logic is that I will never be happy with the chunk of wood that I had to superglue back - there's a distinct glue line that I will never be happy with, and if I veneer the edges with more birds eye maple then no one can see it. I was also quite apprehensive about rounding over the top after it had been veneered. I was reasonably sure that I would end up with a ragged edge to the veneer.

All in all, I am looking at this project as a way of learning lessons. If I get a playable instrument that doesn't look too bad, then I can take that learning into the next one, and be happy that I have achieved something.

I'll take more pictures when I get the Carroll drum set up.

Denis

If I were you I'd think again about the contours - or at least the roundovers. They will make the guitar a very 'harsh' style. At least 1/4" roundover!

As for veneering the top and sides - Use a laminate top (at least 1/4" thickness) rather than veneer, it's actually somewhat easier. Also, venering the sides would look quite strange in my opinion, you'd create 3 'faces' rather than a face and two edges, and it would be a beast to get the veneer to match, thereby making it look stranger than if you left it as it is. Show us a close-up of the superglued chunk - I'll bet you can get it looking more invisible than going to such drastic measures.

Nice start to your project, as for the router worries - I used Northern Ash for my first Tele - whoops!!! That feeling when you push the router a little too hard and get a massive BANG followed by a piece flying across the room just makes your heart jump!

I think you really need to do more reading, especially after the last thread you created. Seriously, most of your questions will be answered by reading the tutorials on the main site (www.projectguitar.com) and by reading Make Your Own Electric Guitar by Melyvn Hiscock.

Oh yeah? Didn't know that.

Yeah, I heard from TGP (The Gear Page), and it's on the front page of his website. To be honest, I was surprised at how quickly he changed his mind - with the name he has, even scaling back and raising prices to compensate, people would pay the prices he asked to get one, so it would have made life easier for him. But hey, guess he just wants to keep people happy.

been there and done that. just looking for as much info as i can possibly get till everything is ready for me to take the plunge.

Then lay out the steps in the order you think you're going to do it, with measurements etc and then people will point out any obvious mistakes.

Seemed to have killed of Tom Anderson's joy; hence his somewhat recent-ish decision to fly solo again.

He's changed that one. The massive outcry at the possibility of Anderson scaling back means he rethought his decision and will be changing the way he works instead.

On the contrary, you missed my point about the session completely. If I am hired to do something for someone I'm not going to dictate to them how to compose a piece of music even if I can analyse and theorise music more than they can. I am going to do my best to play what they want. Much in the same way I expect, and given I am going to be paying good money for this project, that the luthier will do their best to accomodate me and give me what I want. I really am not interested in what some certain individual here thinks they would and wouldn't do. All I wanted was some advice on what kind of combination those woods might make together. I have played plenty of instuments made of zebrano and purpleheart, tobias and alembic to name a few, incidentally, but I see your point, hence my asking for opinions. I wasn't looking for your critique of my methodology at all though, thanks. Also try reading, it's a bass, not a guitar, which makes me a bass player. The so called scrap piece of wood you are refering to, is something you haven't seen incidentally so where you have any room to call me a joker I don't know. As for any of that other crap, I have no intention of doing anything with the wood other than making sure I approve of the wood selected. I don't want to rock up to see my bass being built and the guy says oh well sorry I just decided that I'm not going to use zebrano, I think I will use ash instead. It's my money and my bass just like if i was being paid on a session it's the producer or songwriter's music. How many forums do I have to visit though where some super sensitive hero has to try and use insults in place of objective and constructive discourse? Can the moderator do something about this stupidity?

Oh yeah, and I play drums bass guitar and keys all quite well thanks, I also sing.

I think the only 'super sensitive hero' here is you. Chill out. If you've played basses with Zebrano and purpleheart and liked them, then go for it. Think about it, if alembic make basses from purpleheart, why are you asking questions about it's density and suitability for guitar making on a distinctly hobby-builder site?

Congratulations on being able to sing as well!

I think the point people are trying to make is that luthiers know far better than any ordinary guitarist how a piece of wood in the rough will work out, in terms of dimensions, shrinkage, moisture rates, stability, potential tone, figure, weight. Because they have experience. The luthier (if they have any real experience) would have a far better idea of this than you, because quite simply, how many guitars have you taken from wood to finished instrument?

To use your session analogy - it's like you being called up to a recording session as a guitarist, then playing all the other instruments because you think you're better than the other musicians, even though you've never picked up a bass or played drums in your life.

Just as an aside, how many guitars with Jarrah, purpleheart, and/or zebrano have you owned or played? I'm curious. Also, 1.25 inch wide sections of Jarrah would equal around a 12 piece body.....you're scrap taking wood from a bank counter and you're worried about compromise on the luthier's part? Joker.

Why not put the truss rod adjustment at the headstock end? Seems even more convenient than a spoke wheel at the end of the neck - that would require a slot through the fingerboard or for the truss rod to sit out the back of the neck.

I agree, I'll even go so far as to bet you that you wouldn't get even 1/2 of any money you put into doing the guitar up. Why? Because give someone a choice of either spending 1700 Euros on a new guitar, or 1700 Euros on an old guitar with parts put in by an unknown person (regardless of how good the parts are), and the choice is obvious. No matter what you do to it, it'll still be, at base, a Bronze series BC Rich.

Oh, I didnt make it. I just found a pic of it. But I do plan to try it eventually. And whether you think it's tacky up close, get ANY distance from it, and it's just shiney from any direction.

Chris

I think it'd look less tacky using just White MOP or just Abalone, but it's not too bad a concept. No worse than other slightly over-zealous uses of shell in other designs I've seen.

So I was watching a couple of painting shows on DIY and they were showing using gold leaf on some things. I was wondering is it possible to do something like gold leaf on a guitar? Lets say on the head of the guiter, instead of like a mother-of-pearl inlay could you do a gold leaf of the bird with some glue or something to hold the gold leaf and then just lacquer over it or something so it doesn't get torn up? I would be interested in doing this and if you guys have any ideas I could do it and make a tutorial if it turns out. Thanks

Yes, that's doable, and you'd need to cover it with lacquer or similar finish. Though it's simpler these days to create a waterslide decal with gold ink and stick it down with lacquer on top as it's less fiddly (I think).

another pic

yet another pic

Just awaiting the cocobolo board with inlays....

It looks like the bottom wing isn't glued to the body?? Nice bass though, a bassist friend of mine is in love with the Thunderbird, and I can see why. Great body shape!

So I saw this on ebay and went "AWESOME" a cool way to use all those pieces of pearl that aren't good for anything after you've cut out the inlay pieces.

I think it looks kinda cool, and it's OPTIMAL because the more jagged and strange your pearl cut-offs the better!

Just route a hole over-sized for the truss rod cover you want to make, then drop in the pieces, black epoxy, sand flush, and then cut out the truss cover's shape! And hell, if you've got TONS of pearl scraps, you could even do it for a control cavity cover THAT would be mad crazy/cool!

Chris

In all honesty that looks tacky and ugly imo.

I wasn't sure about the power capacity of the Dremel. Thanks for letting me know.

I didn't know I could cut to body with a router. Should I use a thicker template than heavy paper?

Oh dear god yes. It should be at least 6mm thick MDF or plywood.

Different people will suggest different things, but I'd suggest a Router with template cutting bits, a jigsaw to cut the body outline, and a drill press for the tuner holes. You shouldn't need anything more.

Dremels are only really useful for inlays, the drill press attachment will not let you use a big enough bit for the tuner holes. The plunge router attachment is not good for body cavities such as pickup/control routs as the Dremel is not powerful enough.

If you use a router and template to cut the body outline, then you won't need power sanders for the outside edge, you can do it by hand. If you're only going to build one guitar, get some cheap ones from somewhere like harbour freight or home depot.

Two main methods - either they use a scroll saw and are very careful, or they resaw a small slice the thickness of the cavity cover off the piece for the back and cut the cover from that, then rout the cavity into the back as normal.

Thanks for that idea. there is no way that I am brave enough on my first project to try to nail a perfect cut-out from the back piece so I am going to try the thin slice idea. brilliant !

If you're going with that route, you might want to look at this - it's how Setch did matching covers on one of his guitars - rout the general shape of the covers higher than the rest of a thick back, then slice them off with a thin kerf saw. The picture will give you a better idea of what I mean: