onelastgoodbye

I've just finished winding a second prototype, this time featuring a 6mm wide blade, I've also beefed up the coil to 4 ohms (seems from the tech notes the lm386 is happiest with 8 ohms; i'm not sure if I can build a small enough 8 ohm-er with 0.3mm wire though); 3-4 mm high since you said you had best results with flat coils. I laminated the blade from 8 small strips of iron, with paper in between them and a lot of silicone. After testing with an ohmmeter they don't seem to be insulated from each other, so my efforts there went down the drain (blah). Next time I'll just laquer em before gluing I think. The first prototype (thin blade) did work well to some extent. Epoxying pretty much solved the feedback issue. It still sqeals, until you move up to this certain 'spot' right where say...the 25th fret should be..and it goes dead quiet. Strangely enough it seems to be the perfect position for the driving the strings (without inducing lots of compression-distortion-feedback into the signal). If you hold it REAL close to the strings, you get quite a nice sustain going. The driver or amp isn't strong enough though, you need to pick the string, then it slowly starts getting caught by the magnetic field of the driver and gently sweeps into a controllable feedback. Works best on the g-string, the high e wouldn't budge. Anyway I guess I have 'proven' (ahum) the principle works with a humbucker pickups, and an active one at it. I also tamed the driver amp down with a 10 Ohm resistor between pin 1 and 8, which certainly sounds a lot better than pin1 and 8 bridged. there's still some distortion in the driver signal though, clearly audible when using the sustainer on clean patches. I'm thinking I need more of a clean boost type amp instead of the compression the little gem gets when pushed. A higher output might also prove useful. Maybe the Ruby's the ticket. 2nd proto should be a big improvement, Tim P.S. I have no idea what the magnets are made of. They're bars I pulled from some junk single coils, so I'm guessing alnico or ceramic, any way to tell for sure? P.S.S. Were do you get that pure iron powder from psw? that epoxy-thingie sounds yummie (yeah I'm an epoxy-junk...you should see my toaster )

well i've built the little gem amp and threw a driver together but all I get is screaming high pitched feedback. blah. the driver wasn't properly potted so I guess it's just really microphonic. I'll throw some epoxy on there and see what gives. the gem seems to work fine by itself though. the driver I built uses 0.3 mm wire,with a piece of metal 15 x 57 x 1(!) mm as a blade. For some reason i think a very narrow blade is the way to go. the coil is about 5mm high and came to about 2 ohms (that seems to be pretty low but it was certainly powerful enough to induce feedback 30 cm away from the strings ). I think I'd might have to tame down the little gem too. There's way too much overdrive too my liking with the emg's. You can actually hear the distortion of the little gem rattling the coil, through the strings into my main amp. I'm probably experiencing too much of the lack of headroom on the lm 386 (Lovekraft alluded to that couple of posts ago). Hope all is going well psw, Tim

It's sort of based on the same principle. The buzz feiten system moves the nut back (closer to bridge) by about 2 % of the distance to the first fret (depending on how high the action is). then the strings are tuned to different offsets, like say a-string at 440,2 Hz instead of 440. Intonation at the bridge is also adjusted (offsets at twelfth fret). So instead of giving each string a different scale length, each string is tuned and intonated slightly different. Problem is you need a special (more accurate) tuner. anyway you can read it all in the patents Tim

Actually a nice reason for using a zero fret would be the idea of it causing less friction than a 'normal' nut, making bends easier etc.. You could also make a compensated zero fret by dividing the fret in 6 pieces and cutting separate slots for it. Bit tricky though

oh great! I feel a lot better now it's back on page one... It so happens I have some junk pickups lying around I can rip apart...so I'm gonna give this a shot. Any things to look out for with active pickups (as they are already buffered). Also, how much of an amplification factor is the circuit supposed to shoot for? Tim

yesss that's just the elasticity of the string material coming into play, you're effectively stretching the string. obviously it's easiar to stretch a 100 mm long piece of steel to 105 mm, than it is to stretch a 5mm piece to 10 mm.

Tension in a string, chord, wire, rod, hair,... bloody well does not decrease towards the center. the tension is the same in each and every sectin along it's length, provided that it can move freely (as in a string not locked or hindered at the nut). where in hell are you getting this from. frequency x length x 2 = square root of ( tension / mass per unit length) mass per unit length is dependent on the material the string is made of, and so, is fixed for a certain type of string. so the only variables to determine the tension in a string, or part of a string, are frequency (pitch) and length. now when calculating this crap you can interpret a guitar string as two separate "systems"; one in front of the nut and one behind the nut...we'll leave the bridge out of it, ya? Becase the string can move freely back and forth (horizontally), as previously stated, and is only supported in a single point (the nut), the only force that can be introduced by the nut is an upward (vertically) one, depending on the headstock break angle. A perfectly vertical force can never "introduce" a force in a horizontal direction sooo, string tension on the left side of the nut (headstock) remains equal to string tension on the right (fingerboard)... the only thing that's different is the length: nut to tuner on the left, the scale length on the right; as a result of different lengths, there's a difference in frequency. The fingerboard part 'll have a certain pitch (eadgbe); the shorter headstock part 'll have a significantly higher pitch. if you push down on one part of the string, tension goes up, tension in the other part has to be equal so it goes up as well, pitch changes...simple.

Well, if you say so yourself....

Here's the company whose design has risen to the top and is being sold with guitars now. There's about 3 small samples on it. There electric section is down for preparing for the opening of them. http://www.lightwave-systems.com ← It's not being sold with guitars...they've been 'preparing' for the last 3 years , so the company is either dead or in need of a decent webmaster. Apparently they're still alive though, because there was a guy here who built a bass using the lightwave system not too long ago.

You've basically got two ways of dealing with this; there's the acoustical way, where you're shaking the bridge, and the elctrro-magnetic way, where you're shaking the magnetic field of the strings. the acoustical was is probably easier to perfect, but it's gonna take a lot of (phantom) power ; I think your best bet would be a hex pickup driving six piezo's on individual saddle's. The electrical way is obviously pretty cumbersome but I don't think you should just throw these 2 years of development away. is it possible to physically overlap the driver elements so they have a wider range when string bending? also, maybe you could try driving the pickup rather than the string (as in tricking the magnetic field of the pickup directly rather than in trying to move the strings), I guess you're already doing this to an extent by stacking the driver on the pickup and effectively making use of the interference. what if you put current through the strings itself. Could that in a way influence a magnetic field? Anyway, i'm a firm believer of the credo "it can't be this bloody hard" ,so i really think you're close to solving this. and about the ebow, yeah it's a great design but it doesn't sustain chords either now does it . ready to help whenever you're ready, Tim

there's a lot of clipping, which makes it hard to judge the actual sound. Considering all the soundbytes use the same amp settings, it seems the device really has a lot more 'range' and possibilities than current sustainers. The quality of the distortion is a bit mmmm...doubtful though. A lot attributes to the recording chain (! ) I guess... Overall it seems like the device is still to much 'out of control' , especially the induction thingie. Could it be the circuit is pumping too much juice (as in over-amplifying)? Maybe you underestimate the efficiancy of your driver, dunno. I really liked the clean stuff, the distorted part needs taming imo. More like a boost into a tube amp than a solidstate fuzz. But hey it's working and I can hear the potential, keep it up. Tim

Progress... I've made a hinging box. Still needs improvement, but it's working pretty well! I can probably make it *click* into it's closed position too. It's quite a hack job, so I'm not posting pics yet Tim

scroll and your questions will be answered quote from thread: "You can extend the lives of cheap batteries to match or surpass more expensive batteries like Energizers by putting a high capacitance in parallel with them. Apparently, it is their rise in internal resistance which causes batteries to run down rather than them actually running out of chemical energy." mmm interesting...All I know is they sound a lot better at 18V Tim out

yeah, I'll have another go at the box this weekend. You still need 2 batteries right? Tim

Ahh yes adding space in between (kerning)...hadn't thought of that one. Can you say A______L______ I______E______N

So today I tried to drill for the alu tubing (12 mm)and messed it up..wood chipping and such. I'll start over with a 2-battery box if I can find the time (not likely this week though) Mine only needs to be about 3mm wider and 5mm higher, which is a good thing really, because the current version seems to have the controls too close together and the added height would facilitate positioning the controls over the bridge. psw, the idea of accessing the batteries from the underside might be a good one. I was planning on making the top half hinge from the sides, but it's gonna be real tricky to do this precision stuff with just hand tools. access from underneath would also make it possible to cast the box as a 1-piece, making it more rigid and a lot less work ( bit worried about undercutting here). Might as well epoxy the circuit in the same go too (good thinking on that one). On the 'lettering'...I've never seen anything like it in current production stuff. If you find an easy way, you can probably file for another patent . What I was thinking, you could look for a company that makes flexo printing forms. Flexo uses polymer printing forms where the printed (the lettering) area is raised 1-2 mm above the actual plate. You could use that to make a master cast of the lettering,...etc. They usually do this stuff by laser engraving now, so it's really accurate, it should be really cheap 'cos you only need a tiny surface, and you can use any font you want. Problem is finding someone willing to do this for you. Evidently, just a lighting strip 'll work out too Tim

Looking good psw..you really have the shape of the box down and the new driver is better than ever too. Meanwhile...as the great Hyunsu would say...today's workings 2 3 4 I'm taking a different approach than psw. The plan is to laminate a 2-part shell around this wooden form (once I find out how ); This 'll be a 'master' box from which you can cast a silicone mold. This mold is then used to cast a number of production boxes. Should be at least 50- 100 boxes from one mold. Hopefully I can pull of something like this: 1 2 3 4 That last one is an idea to have the logo in a separate cast, and then cast the box around it. Pretty risky though. Hope it helps and tell me what you think, Tim

allrighty, blueprints and wireframes of the box can be found over here I'm gonna try and make a mold over which the shell of the box can be laminated. I've also figured out a way too incorporate the hinges into the mold itself + a few other things that should facilitate the construction process. More pics when I got a bit more time tomorrow. Tim

Wow, things are moving fast here.. Firstly , i'm honoured to be part of the sustainer revolution . I really like Emre's last design too. Cool vintage vibe. I'll adress a few things: Well, I noticed that too. PSW pointed out my dimensions might have been a bit off and he was right. The box is actually bigger than you see in the last render. Below is the 'real thing' up to the right scale. You can probably *just* move the controls and the overhang over the tailpiece. There's about 12-13 mm of clearance below the overhang. The carved top is also angled back there, so the box when mounted will angle back a bit, which provides maybe an extra 1- 2 mm. Anyway I'm pretty confident we can make it go over the tailpiece. It's kind of hard to make out on the black guitar, might have to adjust your monitor brightness a bit: full frontal black pauls rule but not as much as goldtops yeah I proposed something like that a while ago, having a separate mini control board.. A great feature if you can make it work. What's the difference exactly, if any, between the push knob and the momentary action pushbutton thing? bit confused here. I'll give you some more exact "blueprints" later, your measurements seem pretty accurate, I've got 10 mm height for the silver part, 25 mm max height for the black part and the controls sticking out on top of that. length (back to front) is about 85 mm controls included, max width is little over 90 mm. Keep in mind these are INNER dimensions, and I've really made it as small as possible ( all the stuff fits but it's pretty crowded). About the actual building of the box..as it turns out, my 2nd semester at school has just started and I've got all sorts of really cool classes coming up: DFA (Design For Assembly, which is designing a product specifically with ease of production in mind); CNC programming; ergonomics; and...a redesign of a toaster, which includes molding and laminating and shelling 'n stuff Sooo.. I was thinking I'd have a go at building a prototype box, see if I can do a decent job, and then maybe send it to you, psw. sound like an idea? Lastly: about the 2 battery thing: actually there's no springs in the cavity at all !! you can see where i blocked the trem Greetz from Europe, Tim

Hello peeps, just a little preview of what I'm working on:

psw, I found something *I think* might be useful to you: pcb board manufacturing Tim

stupid double posts

Hi PSW here's my take on the height adjustment: It's just two folded pieces of metal, glued or taped to the driver and body. You can press down or pull up the driver et voila! heigt adjusted. I'm a bit reluctant of anything that would involve screwing directly into the body, especially since the driver is most likely to be retrofitted. Double-sided stick tape should be just as durable (i've got some 3tm stuff here, super thin, and damn, it STICKS) if used correctly; plus there's this real slick look to the driver without the screws. You wouldn't have to drill holes into the driver, so that's 2 minutes less fabrication time . Anyway I wouldn't put too much thought in it as it's mainly a set-and-forget thing. So anything that can be used a couple of times without breaking 'll do. screws + springs, shims, a wad of tape, magnetic levitation . pick something that's easy for you to build. About the cost, one thing I've learned in my marketing classes (not much really) is that a low price is not a good USP (unique selling proposition) on a long-term basis. You sell something cheap, then the competiton builds something cheaper... Basically the way you market it should be dictated by the price (or should I say production cost); not vice versa. Take a realistic look at material cost, work hours, add a nice profit margin (and don't cut yourself short here) and when it comes out expensive, so be it. you'll just have to convince people that this is not just your ordinary sustainer. if the quality is right, if the features are right, if the service is right, if it looks good, people will pay what it costs. you just make the thing as cheap as possible, but not any cheaper. Meaning you set certain quality standards for yourself, you set a certain profit for yourself, and then make it as cheap as possible without altering those standards. And please remember, don't ever ever tell anyone what it costs you to produce it; people 'll just use it against you. There's months of R & D in this, time you should have spent with your family, the cost of that can't be calculated. Though I think you already know most of this, maybe it can be useful to others reading this thread. Now, realistically speaking, I'd pay something between € 150 and € 300-350; which translates too... 250 AUD to 500 -575 AUD. Anything cheaper than 250 AUD would be putting yourself and the product short ( you have to respect the product and the unique things it does). 575 AUD is pretty steep so you'd have to really convince me... All IMO of course. I'm a bit of a gearfreak who'd rather put 5K into a rack than into a car (right now i have neither..student life) Happy readings, Tim

I've included a pic of how the components are layed out: layout first off, I want to emphasize that it's ONE box, it looks like two stacked boxes, but on the inside it's one open space. The circuit and battery are sitting next to eachother (not stacked). The added height is there simply because of the sloping design. The black part is actually wider than the battery (shown in brown) so it actually extends a bit over the circuit (overlap indicated in red). there's at least 10 mm there, so if the trimpots are relocated right up against the battery, you can adjust them from above ( I notice there's already 2 trimpots located there on the prototype circuit, so it should be feasible). This of course implies that the black part can be removed or hinged as a whole. I actually figured the controls would be "chassis"mounted, with flying leads to the circuit board. The flying leads might be vulnerable though. I know what you mean... it would be pretty difficult to cast. Although...if it were 2 separate casts I can see it work. I'll get back to that tomorrow (new idea ) I'm also working on a feasable way of casting in the logo. that'll be the biggest problem in making the box. Forget about engraving that manually. it's a long shot, but I think I can solve it. 3 a.m. here ,this stuff is waaay too addictive the story continues, Tim

Sorry psw, the silver part doesn't float. the black part however Here's the deal: 2 3 4 5 6 7 dig the name nightdriver Think of it as an L-shaped 'box'. The silver part contains the complete circuit , the black part houses the battery and controls + some spare room. There shouldn't really be any alterations made to the main layout, it all fits! the black part is overhanging and slanted, slightly facing upward and outward (towards the low E). That overhang and slant sort of makes it look and feel like its over the trem, but the trem can actually move all the way up without hitting anything. 'Bout as accessable as it can get. Seen the red and green lights? since the cylinders housing the switches are chromed (well that's the idea) they can act as reflectors...so I've put 2 leds in there, just entering from the side, that act as battery indicators (or whatever you come up with). There should be enough room to do that I must say i'm pretty proud of this one..It's contemporary, but there's some 50's in there too. The chromed switch protrusions always make me think of speedometers or those crazy "jet engine" car bumpers. (the logo uses the PORSCHE font too, so it must be fast ) I'll take a break from this one, and see what psw can do with the circuit. Since it's getting smaller, It can only get better. strat jackplate is next, Tim