Mike Herr

Thank you

I already sanded as there was a lot of old glue in between the bridge and body.

Try to scrape rather than sand if you can it leaves a better finish, that being said sanding is ok.

With a perfect gluing surface, the glue joint will be stronger than a the wood's grainjoint. (look at a broken headstock on a mitered neck joint-->the break won't be the glue line)

Since the glue joint is not in the same direction as either the bridge and top grain, even a "perfect" glue up could fail before the top or bridge fails.

Anybody who needs to repair it in the future will thank you for not using epoxy, gorilla glue, or CA.

Anyway, see my 'Time for a new router' thread to understand what happens when you push a router to do things it's not supposed to....

While that is good advice, it [collet issues] doesn't apply to this particular router issue.

If your router has enough HP or you're making a bunch of passes, then it IS something a router is designed to do, just not the easiest/best way for most situations.

Scale length is the vibrating length of the string

so the fretboard side of the nut to the fretboard side of the bridge saddle.

WRONG!!

Are you nit picking?

Care to give the right answer?

Bedside manner would be like Dr. House.

Vibrating string length (for guitars) is the wrong answer.

The correct answer was already stated by jaycee. Distance from nut to 12th fret times 2.

"nit picking"

The difference is that the distance from nut to saddle is scale length + compensation, not just scale length.

For routing deep blind slots I've been told to use a spiral upcut bit to help evacuate the chips.

I've never had the need to make that type of route so I never tried them.

If you got a big router, no bandsaw, and hate your jigsaw (I hate mine-->POS) then I say try it.

I had to make a new back, I tried gluing it the same way as the soundboard but it didn't work to good. . .

The angle of those clamps for attanching the top looked concerning to me.

It does look like a good idea, but I'de suggest using some sort of spacer similar to strap clamps in the machinist world to make those wooden clamp bars more horizontal.

The opposite angle would actually work better.

Is it Possible to cut out an entire body using a router?

Yes it is, but you don't want to.

Unless your router is huge, the multiple passes needed will take longer, and the router bit will be routing a slot rather than trimming an edge.

This will heat up your bit and dull it really quick.

Doesn't help your problem, but might help prevent it in the future.

Nothing will prevent tearout, but you can do things to reduce your chances/make it smaller.

Use a really sharp bit.

Don't take off alot of wood in one pass. Do multiple passes or saw out the majority of the meat.

Route with the grain.

It's not going to be pretty, that's for sure.

I've never built any tool jig or fixture that looked good.

The swing arm type machines seem to be what everybody uses.

Probably work a little better on a gib sander than a router, but I've heard plenty of people who use router both by swinging the router or swinging the fretboard.

It would have the advantage of being able to easily and accurately change radius.

For me the major disadvantage is having a fairly large thing to store.

Make sure to show us pics when you build it.

the humidity in my shop is about 45.. by the time the room gets warm, the windows are foggy, the cast iron is rusting, and the humidity is about 65+..

Turn the humidifier on your heater off or down, and your humidity will go down.

I say that jokingling, because you would have done that already, and the only heaters I know of with built in humidifiers are forced air heaters, which aren't common in a shop. Is this what you have?

The windows getting foggy and the cast iron getting rusty, is the moisture in the air condensing on the cold surfaces. (which would lower your humidity)

Not saying that I don't believe you that the humidity went up, it just goes against what I know, (or thought I knew)

cast iron is rusting

Have you taken measures to rust-proof your tools?

Thanks for the reply, yes the red thing is the bit.

At first, I planned on being able to swap out the end radiuses, but I think it would be easier to build a seperate jig rather than fussing with alignment/indexing them.

The trick here is designing the end gauges so that the jig can accommodate different fretboard thicknesses while still keeping the beam parallel to the table

Unless, I'm missing something, I don't think that would be a concern. I have it desiged to where the bit potrudes 1/4" out of the table. My fingerboards could be up to .4" think and still work. Yes it would change the radius, but not much, for (extreme)example if you were cutting a 16" radius on a 1/4" thick f/b then changed to a 1/2" thick f/b the radius would just change to 15.75" radius.

Am I missing something? I've built one guitar a couple years ago(not in my shop), and I'm in the tooling/set up phase of my own shop.

I just remember a pain in my shoulder and black boogers from hand sanding a radius into an ebony f/b for the one I built.

Thanks for the chipout warning, I won't go full depth right away.

For those of you doing compound radius' for acoustics what are you using?

Martin does 16" and Gibson does 12", is that correct?

My fixture as designed would produce a fingerboard that transitions from 12"rad at the nut to 16.70" at the 20th fret.

I have a gravity feed spray gun from Harbor freight tools. I have a pancake compressor that came as a set with a porter cable nail gun.

That gives me hope for spraying in the near future. I have a compressor from my roofing days, but always thought you needed a big one for spraying.

Do I need a filter in there to take out the moisture/oil?

Is the one from harbor freight any good?

Some of thier stuff is decent, some isn't worth the almost nothing that it cost.

My grandpa used to say "I'm too poor to be cheap"

Ken/John, which Harbor freight guns do you have? There are a couple different ones currently sold.

Alot of the back and top radi stuff is done in dishes, but those run89.99 apiece with sandpaper and shipping.

http://www.axehandle.net/gpage1.html

Ebay also has them for reasonable, but if you consider it fun to make your own tools, they can be made.

If you consider toolmaking a means to an end, then my vote would be to buy them if you want 'em.

I know there are saveral "swing arm" machines out there that use large bed sanders, routers, even tablesaws to cut a compound radius.

I have a small shop(don't want to store a big fixture, and don't have a big enough sander), I like the idea of compound radius fretboards, and I do not wan't to sand them by hand with radius blocks.

I came up with this idea: It basically uses to radiused end pieces. When pushed across a router table(at the right angle) it will create a perfect section of a cone.

I also have the fixture tapered, to cut the f/b taper w/o needing to do doublestick tape twice.

The inspiration for this was reading that double bass makers do this by hand with a plane. This is basically the "handplane" way to do it on a router table.

The downside is that is is a little prone to user error. The way I see it if the bit is set to the correct depth(there will be a go-no-go gage built in) there will be no way to bite too much, but if used at the wrong angle a little too much meat could be left on.

If needed I have a touch up sanding block designed.(transparent grey in pic)

Don't know if this explains it easier, but I will basically need to move it across the router bit parallel to each string(which aren't parallel with each other) not an exact science. When doing the middle pass I will move it along the center line, and the outside passes will move along the line of the taper rather than parallel to the centerline.

I'm wanting input. Will this work? Has this idea already been done? If you were building it, how would you improve it?

I also made an excell spreadsheet, based on the stewmac formulas for conical fretboards if that would help anybody.

The spreadsheet was helpful to create the "ideal" radiusses for a given taper--> if you select the correct ratio between radius and taper your fingerboard will have the same hight in the middle and edges of the f/b all along it's length.

http://sites.google.com/site/mountainmanin...ents/Home/forum

I've seen some discussion of those pics, some seem to think that he was just posing with those guitars, possibly a marketing thing, or trying them out.

Also the guitar that Django finally settled on wasn't available when he started playing.

I am not an expert on these style guitars, just read a couple articles on them lateley->planning to build one soon.

Unless you bought a gallon, Titebond is cheap compared to the "cost" of your effort. (Advise for next project)

I have heard of plenty of people using titebond II before they learned it was worse for creep, almost all with no problems.

I wouldn't be able to bend the top for an arch, so it'd have to be a carve. Also, as discussed earlier, archtops still require some kind of bracing, which I'm trying to avoid. It's faitly likely that the bracing would be altered by the frame.

Without bracing it won't vibrate like a typical flat-top acoustic or archtop, because you will need a much heavier top w/o bracing.

If you had bronze strings on a semi hollow guitar and a pickup like that I'm sure it would be close to an acoustic sound.

When I switched to acoustic strings, I could get my Guild Archtop (built like an acoustic-->fully hollow) to sound very similar to an acoustic plugged in.

http://www.gypsy-guitars.com/encapsulation.php?page=forum

Then click on "parlons guitares"

Then click on "Plan Maccaferri Partie 1 et 2"

I have not build from these plans, they don't seem super complete, but the price is right.

The plans are for one with the large D hole. If I remember correctly Django mostly played the one with the smaller oval hole.

I would go for it $350 is a good deal, unless you see any need to resaw more than a 15" bookmatch, that could be a problem for larger acoustic backs and tops other than that I see no reason it would be fine for any guitarmaking.

If it is a similar design to thier current 14" bandsaws, then you can purchase a riser block kit that will extend the resaw capacity by 6".

I quite often wondered if you could somehow have a built-in capo

There is a you-tube video I saw in which Dan Erliwine has capos that screw in to inserts on the fingerboard.

To some this would totally ruin the guitar, but if you're like me and tune a whole step down for any song I sing to, it would be pretty neat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SejHVAFAKAI

I know I am in the minority but I feel that The Cumpiano book is not a good stand alone resource. (It is a great book, and probably the best single book out there)

Much of the stuff is outdated, or can be done eaisier/better for beginners with other methods.

If you build from that book, definiteley check out his website for some updates.

If any individual step seems difficult, or doesn't work well with the tools you have, then find another resource. There are so many ways to skin a cat.

I also have the Irving Sloan book and one by Jim Williams. Check your library for what they have.

I can find NO information anywhere on the web.

Did you look? There is quite a bit.

Here are a couple photo essay type sites.

There are also several really good forums.

http://www.proulxguitars.com/buildup/build1.htm

http://www.geocities.co.jp/MusicHall-Horn/...ke/ooomakee.htm

http://home.comcast.net/~kathymatsushita/

Do you really play up there on a non-cutaway acoustic?

If the answer is no, then this "problem" is only cosmetic-do nothing.

If the answer is yes, then there could be many culprits.

Check out Frets.com Frank ford has very good photo essays. His site will show you how to diagnose action issues.

If you want to fix it you will need to remove the neck, and seperate the glue joint between the f/b and the top.

Rather than rigging up a steam system, I know of two proven methods. The first is to use a heat gun, which shouldn't cost much.

While this is true for seperating the fingerboard, you will burn the wood long before you soften the glue in the neckjoint.

The only good way to remove a glued on neckneck is with steam heat.

To fix this do one of two things.

Change the heel angle if the neck angle is wrong.

Shim the fingerboard extension if the neck angle is right.

If your bridge and saddle are the correct hight, your nut has the correct string heights, and 12th fret action is good, then DO NOT change the neck angle, it will fix one problem and cause another (much bigger) problem.

If you change the neck angle and it was correct all along, then your guitar will have horrible action at every fret rather than just the seldom used ones.

Spend some time with either a good library book (I reccomend Dan Erlewine's book) or frank ford's site or both.

If the neck angle is correct, you want to fix this and you are afraid to steam a neck, then you might be able to get by with just removing the fingerboard, inserting a tapered shim, and wicking in some glue.

Most acoustics have the fingerboard actension slope down slightly.

I tried a stationary router just like you are thinking of and it din't work good at all the bit kept catching the wood and trying to pull it up so it just made a mess of the wood.

Try one of two things:

double-stick tape it to something with more stiffness--> was the piece you router thicknessed thin?

Although this is a totally different methof a Wgner safe-t-planer has a mechanism to stop this lift and is rellly good for thickessing thin stuff.

As for wood rails bowing:

You can make the rails just as stiff as steel angle iron, the vertical pieces just need to be taller.

If you have a drill press, then a Wagner Safe-T-Planer gives good results. It essentually uses the drill press as an overhead router. The cutter is designed so that it is almost impossible to get your hand cut.

If you only have a benchtop drill press, and can't lock the quill or dial in the table height, it is hard to adjust. You need to take light passes like a planer, rather than the router, wich can take alot of meat (athough narrow strip) off in one pass.

I have had fairly good results with a similar router setup, although it is worse than a planer or safe-t planer, it certainly will be less work to clean up than using a forstener bit.

If you make sure the bit is square to the surface and sharp on the bottom face, it has worked well for me.

There are also special router planer bits. I hear they leave a better surface finish, maybe I will splurge someday.

With all the time and effort you have wasted thinking about this router setup you could have bought and learned to use a hand plane. Not that hard to use. Something you can use for your entire life.

Hand Plane +1.

I disagree: It would take longer to buy a plane new or used, and set it up properly than it would to build this jig and use it.

That being said, for minor stock removal, I would reach for the plane.