zionstrat

when i was a kid i didnt know any better and refinished a number of guitars with paint can variety polyester, did a lot of wet sanding between coats and used a lot of clear coats to top it off- now I would like to do my first serious guitar but kind of like the advatagous of poly over lacquer (no shrink/fade) etc- I want to do the classic semi translucent red SG look that we all know from the 70s and wonder how you do this with poly? Guessing I would first use a grain filler- Anything special if I'm going poly? Then it sounds like I would take a pass or 2 or 3 with red die? Any special types? Then poly clear coats? I can find full instructions on number of coats sanding schedule, etc for lacquer at reranch and other sites but nothing like it for poly- Is this becuase poly is just a bad idea for some reason? Or is lacquer more of a cult or more applicable to accoustics? Interseted in any and all ideas! thx

Steve- PUP height is variable- I start at about 1/4 and lower if I get 'stratitis' (wobeling sound if pup is too close) or move up if I need more power- I use a piece of foam under my p90s but the rubber pads will do the same thing- EVH made a big deal about mounting pup directly to wood but most have since conculded that it had no effect- Cheers

Good point on humcanceling- Dont think it is available dog earred although SD custom shop might do it- Mapbe another reason to go SG style?

P90s have a wonderful tone and LPjrs and SGs are both extremely expresive with them- Mahogany and p90s is an excellent combo- As previously mentioned they are bright and cutting, but much thicker than a strat pup- Or from an Hbuking pov they are thinner with more bite- Think who live at leeds or practically any early SG work (that's veryone in the 60s:) One major issue that you need to consider- I dumped my p90 strat in the 70s because the hum is even worse than an unshileded strat- Sheidling can help sum, but if you play live this can be a major detriment- However you can get very similar tones from stacked p90s like SD- Or I'm going to the trobule of designing a gtr that will have noise canceling in most configurations for this very reason- BTW, you really don't need the gibson name to pull this off- There are tones of very good LPjr and SG clones out there and considering their simplicity, what you hear is what you get- Other than the name plate, or if you are going for a more custom approcah consider the many copies out there- Or if you want to pay near Gibson prices, go up a level to the PRS p90-

Justin- At this point I think I probalby should go back to the drawing board and look at other woods- After all, I've come this far, I know exactly what sound I'm after, I can't build until fall, so why not learn a little more down the road- Thanks again for the input and glad to have a brother in arms as I learn! IDCH- You have a very good point regarding the origination of all of the best practices- They did have to start somewhere, and they knew far less about wood than we know now- But that's really the point of my search..they could afford to experiment, they were looking for a wide variety of sounds, and most important, they did not have precidents to work with. Another way to look at it is that if Mahoganey has not turned out to be a really good LP sound, and yet steel was, the most famous guitars of all time might have been Nationals:) Or another way to put it is that there as some combinations that just never made it because they don't work and I don't want to go that direction...short scale bases and aluminum neck guitars cetainly have a small fan club, but in general we all know why they aren't top dog. As far as scientific, I wish I was..and I wish that others could have been moreso up to this point, but the physics have probalby just been beyond our bandwidth - Although I bet this changes significatly over ourlifetimes as processing power and dta storage costs continue to plumet- But I'm surpoised that you are surprised that body shape affected my choice- Keep in mind, I'm not after what's popular, or even looks good (althought from does tend to follow funciton)- Instead I know exactly what sound I am after, and the closest thing I can buy parts for would be an SG shape- But with a bolt on neck the SG tends to be neck heavy (due to 25.5 neck lenght)- So I already needed more weight just to offset the neck weight- But 25.5 also tends to brighten up the sound, and I far perfer the feel of a maple fboard whihc also brightens sound- So I decided to offset this brightness with greater mahagony mass which requires an LP, explorer, L5 or other larger body- Out of the larger body styles, I choose the L5 as one on my buddies had an incredible L6, and the L5 should be similar with a tummy and forearm cut- But in the end you are exactly right..I've got to choose one of these and go for it- Thanks for all of the input- I'll be travelling most of the next 2 weeks and expect to order parts when I get back- Cheers! Michael

greg p- Yes at some point I have to get in the water:) But I've used modeling since it's enfancy and my day job is in the midst of gigbites of data points so some times you get the feeling that the final answer is just over the hill:) One think is for sure, unless the band hits it big sometime, I wont get many chances at this:) But I'm having fun and the best I can do is the best I can do one way or the other- So your short version sums it up a chambered solidbody is not a semi-hollowbody and that's a key point- Much thanks!

ok lets table the maple/mahogany discussion awaiting someone with more details and move to my most recent question- Mass and affect on tone- I picked an L5 mahogany body specifically to increase mass in hopes of evening out the maple neck issue previouly discussed- I knew the mahogany body would be heavy but now hear it might be 8 lbs+ and some are suggesting that I chamber the body to reduce weight- That brings up 2 issues- 1. Would reducing the weight of the mahagoney increase the brightness by allowing the maple to have more influence? 2. Does chambering affect the tone? So far I'm being told that it doesn't but I sure dont want this is sound like a hollow body- Appreciate any input!

Ok, Scrappy talking to you on 2 threads at once, so let me get the Pau Ferro thing going over here- Is it possible to bleach and get a finsih/look similar to maple (color more than figuring)

Exactly- We devide and conquer..no that must have been a work related thread:) Serously. Pau Ferro has come up on my thread and I wonder if it could be bleached and finished to look and feel more like maple? Hoep we both get to help each other out- Not sure if cross posts are allowed, but I've asked some of these questions on mimf and Sduncan- Cheers

Greg- That's a really good point- I don't know if it's because necks are more subject to warping, and guess you are probably correct- Hope I can find an affordible marhonaney/maple- S Squrile, will have to check warmoth- If they provide mahognaey/pau ferro, maybe it woudl give the feel if not the look- Thx

SSquirrel- We're looking at almost exactly the same coin form different sides:) Take a look at my thread http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.php?showtopic=17946 and now I see that you have been in there- Most on this and other sites are telling me that neck has more impact than even a cap- Just like you , I want to avoid the brightness.. I have strats for that. So considering I am not building a neck myself, I wonder if anyone is building a maple fretboard/mahogany neck-

Good eye Rich! I originally specked out a mahogany neck with maple F board, but so far I can't find one- Warmoth will not make one, and I've had some wood oriented folks tell me that the problem is different expansion rates- Apparently maple just doesn't like to stick to mahogany or any other woods for that mater becuase when they flex they flex at different rates- Anyone else provide more info? I really wanted mahogany/maple, but at this point looks like it would be very very expensive unless anyone has ideas- Michael In your summery you say Mahog neck w/ Maple fretboard. I also noticed after re-reading your post and what others posted you mentioned Maple neck. Was the plan Mahogany for the neck, and a Maple fretboard? I think thats right on the money IMO. As for Limba, it is pretty close to Mahogany mabe a bit tighter sounding in the mids (but that could just be my perception). I think you are really in the ballpark with your choices, so you should do fine. Peace, Rich ←

David- Thanks for the input on woods- Will have to look into the alternatives that are available- Glad you like the 5 way- Only 'pain' is quessing which combos I will like the most as it will be nice to move both 5ways together for most common sounds- I'm betting that the best 3 pup combo will be the p90s in series with the full blade paralel and have this as the #3 position- But I've heard and incredible series+out out of phase before as well, and if this turns out to be the killer sound I'm pretty sure I will get right back in there and make that #3 instead- Thanks again for the inpu! M

Bump- Bet someone out there has some more thoughts on sound potential!

Well the tried and true and extremely simple answer in today's world of ubiquitous modeling is feedback- I develop all my models in my studio so I can run it through a full range non-colored system - It seems so strange to get feedback in such a pristine envirornment, but some models are so foucsed that you really can'l help getting feedback on many of them- Try 2 or 3 models that provide an overlapping range center frquencies and you can tune the sustain-Or use the old Tom schultz trick and include wah in the modle and use the wah to chang the frequency focus on the fly- Another cool think about such control is that you can get usable feedback with practically no distortion- Hope this helps

Thanks Rich- You are correct we really wont know for sure until I do it, but considering there's paractically nothing to compare it to, I was thinking it better safe to ask first and appreciate the imput- Limba if I remember correctly is about same sound as mahogany? Had to look up lacewood and see it's a bit like alder- Guessing this would take me more in the strat direction- Thanks for feedback and hope to hear more1

If you read following summary, I think I want to build something I have never seen before- A Mahogeny body/Maple neck to get a rather specific feel and sound- Can you give me your ideas as to what this gtr would sound like? Goals: Build a rather unusual P90 gtr to get sounds and feel I am after- I want a hum free sound that has more bite than my humbucker gtrs and is thicker than my strats. I want to get much of the mahogany tone that I got off my old p90 SG. But I also want flexibility for a number of pup combinations. And unlike most P90 options I want the feel of a 25.5, wide, thick maple fboard, with med low action and .10 strings. Other than a more traditional 3+3 headstock, this is how I expect it to look: Summary: -L5 mahogany flat top body for classic sound, mass, lots of room for electronics -25.5 Mahogany neck with maple fingerboard- Wide, thin profile -hard tailpiece -locking tuners. -Two 5 way switches control to p90 and once dual rail sc for following combinations: P90 Switch 1. Bridge 2. Bridge+neck parallel 3. Bridge + neck series 4. Bridge + neck series out of phase 5. Neck SC-Twin blade's 5way switch 1. single coil that is hum complimentary to bridge P90 2. Off 3. Full SC rail with spin a split 4. P90s off, full SC rail with spin a split 5. Single coil that is hum complimentary to neck P90 Right now I'm considering set of Fralins, SD Vintage soapbars or stacks for the p90s and either a cool rail or a Dmz cruiser for the middle. Master vol, tone, and dual rail spin a split- But I'm open to input- So would you think I've got a good starting point for the sounds I am after? Or am I missing something altogether? After all if this had exactly the sound I'm looking for you would expect that someone offered it on a regular basis- Very interested in your input- Thanks!