jbkim
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Posts posted by jbkim
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You mean the Ozzy song? Yes I play that song in my band... solo is simple, but very cool!!!
Yeah, Randy had some of the tightest timing ever. His unison overdubbing of his solos are scary precise.
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Whoa! This thread has nearly 300 more "views" this morning than last night! Must be a popular topic.
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Everyone keeps talking about these damned Stainless Steel Frets, but where can I actually buy them?
Hmm... I put a link in the post to the thread... but I suppose I'll edit it to duplicate it here as per krazydereks request.
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Whoa! Yes, congrats!
Ugh! Diapers
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here is the reply I got from Dunlop
I'm really impressed that they responded to you so quickly
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Hi nyjbkim,
you were saying that you are in other guitar building forums,do you care to share these with us or are they invite only or not english speaking forums.
Oh, actually, the one I as refering to is really a mailing list, steinberger_world. This is where I "met" Kevin (who has the SS frets.) It's not really a build site but I get a lot of useful info there. I love headless instruments
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yeah, i know I can edit posts, but This time it wouldnt help, cuz my typo was already noticed. Boy, I looked like a friggin putts there.
Heh, you could have edited it and made F1sh look like a putz
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I think those Grip strengtheners will over exercise muscle you DON'T want for guitar playing, i.e., you don't want or need to press hard done when fretting. It's all about finesse... you don't want your hand "muscle-bound." Even with a guitar strung with 12's or 13's, you should try to get the most out of the least amount of effort. If you must use a device, I'd suggest a device more like this (linked from this page that list other practice devices.)
Since this is a builder's forum, it should be easy enough to build something like that... but I think the design can be simplified to use ONE string (maybe the 3rd string) and weave it in a serpentine fashion, using only ONE tuner peg.
1 ________________________________@ <-- string end (__|____|____|____|____|____|__ __|____|____|____|____|____|__) (__|____|____|____|____|____|__ __|____|____|____|____|____|__) 6 (__|____|____|____|____|____|____O| <-- single tuner \____\____\____\____\____\_ | +--------- frets
I think it can be made smaller, maybe 5 inches with only the fretboard portion. There still needs to be a way for it to be used single handed... maybe a strap to loop around the back of the hand... or some sort of thumb mount harness???
Hmm... I didn't like the way I explained the "finesse" above. Imagine 3-D space represented by the x,y and z axes. The up/down move (z-axis) would be the only thing that a GripMaster would exercise. There is a LOT of forward/backard (y-axis) and left/right (x-axis) movement involved in playing... the aformentioned finesse.
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Ok. I'll start a whole new thread so it's at the beginning and not buried on page 4 of this one... but first some food.
Blah! Here it is.
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Below are some tips about SS fretting I got in some e-mail. All the words are by "The Tube Doctor" mentioned in this thread here. I just organized them here in a central location.
Please peruse the above thread for the full story on availability/prices/etc. But in the meantime, here is the contact info for Kevin ("The Tube Doctor") and a table of available sizes.
Crown Width Crown Height Tang width 0.094 0.051 0.024 0.106 0.039 0.024 0.110 0.055 0.024 0.083 0.037 0.020 0.105 0.035 0.020 0.090 0.055 0.020 0.109 0.055 0.020 0.105 0.045 0.020 0.090 0.045 0.020
If anyone else has a tip regarding SS fretting, please post here.
- Bear in mind that when this wire goes in, it pays to be supremely meticulous when seating the frets. Levelling and recrowning standard Dunlop fretwire is like sculpting butter, compared to this stuff. When I do a refret with SS frets, I make certain that there is less than 0.0050" difference in each trio of frets. Otherwise, the time and effort to level and recrown uneven frets makes doing the work a money-loser. Also, if you take the time and effort to keep the frets as even as possible when installing them, you won't have to take off any significant height when levelling. I'd love to see what a Plek fret dress could do on one of these refrets!
- I buy the fretwire in 25.250" lengths. For most guitars, two lengths will suffice. This stuff must be cut with an abrasive wheel, and for the fingerboard edge, the tang should be undercut, also using an abrasive wheel. It's terribly labor intensive to use, but the end results are well worthwhile. Tommy Chung, who is Hong Kong's premier blues guitarist, is now playing Steinbergers exclusively, and I've got his #2 in my shop right now, getting a set of SS frets installed. Tommy prefers the frets which are equivalent to the Dunlop 6105 (0.054" crown height, 0.096 crown width). That's the size that I've installed on his #1, which he recently used on a tour of some Japanese clubs.
- Buy some of those diamond abrasive recrowning files from StewMac. The regular tool steel crowning files will dull down quite quickly if you use them on SS. They also get plugged up after just a couple of file strokes. You'll spend as much time clearing the teeth as you will filing.
When I expressed concern about the cost of the diamond files, Kevin offers these words. -- nyjbkim
Below are some pictures of the process with non-diamond files.The Diamond files are very useful, but not essential unless you are doing full-time guitar repair. I refret at least 10 guitars each month, and my time is better spent doing that, rather than going out to buy new files three times a month. You can use regular files, as I did when I first got hold of the SS, but it's like the hobbyist who works on his own car; Craftsman is okay, but the pros insist on Snap On. It's important, but only vital if the tools are in your hands every day.
Just as a refresher, I've picked up my regular files to work on this custom shop Les Paul that's on the bench. Instead of 20 minutes levelling the fret ends and putting the initial bevel on the ends, it's taken me 45 minutes. This is with a single cut (lathe file) which has no teeth on the narrow edge. The file is not new, and is cut down to 6 1/2". I prefer not using a holder block, as I always cut the bevel at a steeper angle than most commercially available blocks allow. I learned a few tricks from a real "Old World" machinist, back when I was doing my machinist's apprenticeship, and they've served me well in luthiery. - The diamond fret levelling blocks are also high on the list of must-have tools. They work great for bevelling the fret ends.
- I've been using an abrasive wheel on a flexible shaft to polish the bevelled fret ends. It's time consuming, but worth the work. (my mantra)
- If you must hammer the frets, use a plastic face. SS is tough, not hard. It will dent easily with a brass hammer, and then you've got to sweat and swear to get the marks out and recrown the fret. I use one of those JAWS fret presses, plus a few judicious taps with a plastic face hammer to seat and level the frets. Do check them in groups of three, make sure they're level, then move on to the next three, checking against the previous trio. This will really save you time when it comes to levelling/recrowning. You'll need to do less of that onerous task, and will preserve much more of the original fret height.
Here are some of the photos of the refret in progress on this sparkle top custom-shop Les Paul. This, by the way, is a brand new guitar, which the owner purchased at a warehouse clearance sale put on by Hong Kong's largest retailer of musical instruments.
As purchased, the guitar was virtually unplayable. The way Gibson insists on building fingerboards means that there was a huge gap, both in height and in width, between the end of the fret wire and the nub of plastic left at the fret end by the trimmed binding. The high E string would either fall completely off the edge, or it would get stuck in the gap between the fret end and the binding. This on a Custom Shop guitar, if you can believe it!
The photos show the original fret end, then the frets in place, being measured for any height difference from one to the next. The three sided brass straight-edge is something I made myself.
The vernier caliper is showing the true thickness of the feeler gauge I use to measure the difference.
Frets are either hammered in or pressed in, by groups of three. The height is checked with every trio, then against the next trio, and so on up the board. Needless to say, the truss rod is adjusted to provide zero neck relief when the frets are going in.
You can tell by the photos, that I haven't used that poor file in some time. Please, don't give me hard time about a little surface rust. Hong Kong languishes in 70 plus% humidity (at least) nearly all year. Tools suffer for it. I do clean and oil them, but even so, there's no keeping the rust away. The neck is taped off, and the frets are evened out until the tape is just being peeled back. That tells me that I'm close enough. Then the file is tilted over a bit (eyeball measure) and the bevel is worked on to the fret ends. I never allow the file to come in contact with either the binding or the edge of the fretboard (on unbound necks).
After all the heavy filing work is done (see, you can do it without diamond abrasives, it just takes a bit more effort) it's time for the cratex rubberized abrasive wheel on the dremel flex shaft, and a bit of shaping and polishing on the fret end. Repeat 44 times and you're nearly all done!
It's actually taken me longer to edit these few photos and compile this message than it took me to perform the guitar work!
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If anyone is interested, I could collect and concatonate all the SS fretting tips Kevin e-mailed me and I will post them here.
it'd be nice to know what things we should expect to do differently when fretting with SS post away
Ok. I'll start a whole new thread so it's at the beginning and not buried on page 4 of this one
... but first some food. -
Yeah. um, what a typo!
For future reference, you're allowed to make edits to your own posts.
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you must type well
Yes he does!
Ok, I see that Kevin has made an appearance. Welcome The Tube Doctor. I invited him to join us at our favorite forum. Kevin is a guitar tech based in Hong Kong. I met him in another forum where he mentioned that he does SS refrets, particularly for Tommy Chung (not to be confused with Tommy Chong
) Another Asian guitarist! how cool is that?! You can see some of Kevin's work in the "My Guitars and Gear" link on that page and also here.
Please note that Kevin is not a vendor but a busy guitar tech. He kindly offered to send me some SS frets. Since there seemed to be some interest here in this thread, I asked if I could post his info here. He said he'd be happy to help out his fellow guitar geeks. His contact info is here. Don't be scared by some of those prices... they are in HK$ (7.75:1 US$
) He spends more time working on guitars than at a computer so please direct only serious inquiries to him.The cost of the SS frets are that high, well, because they are that difficult to get (as this thread shows.) The prices are high since he buys in small quantities (see rhoads56's post about his supplier offering only in big lots... enough for 1500 guitars.) If the demand for this fretwire increases, then he'll be able to negotiate a better price. He only stockpiles a stash for his own shop use so the price Kevin quotes factors in the time and effort he and his wife have to expend (international phone calls, wire transfers and what not) for each order that they'll have to process individually. Once again, if there is great demand, expect prices to drop.
Oh! He's also trying to get his supplier to manufacture other useful guitar parts from SS. "How about replacing that cruddy standard Strat trem block with one made from 304 stainless? Or a TOM/STP for the Les Paul players? Stainless is good, but it's seldom used in such applications because the bean counters at the big companies just want to make and sell MORE, not necessarily better products."
Cool, eh?
If anyone is interested, I could collect and concatonate all the SS fretting tips Kevin e-mailed me and I will post them here.
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well if you really are van halen then you should say so...it would be worth more
sorry...lame joke
It's probably Freddie VanHalen, Eddie's evil twin.
sorry, even lamer joke.
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I just e-mailed dunlop about this maybe they can help out
I wondered why Dunlop didn't carry SS frets... but then if they become very popular, in essence, you'd kill off their tradition fret business, yes/no?
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ouch...... considering 35$ gets you enough normal wire to do a couple of guitars.. either way i'd still like to try out a set of #1, 3, & 6 according to your chart.
but feel free to haggle the guy for better prices
so are you going to do it or not rhoads? work out some prices for individual and bulk packs... ya never know.
Ouch is right! Using your comparison, SS vs. regular is about 5 times more expensive. Also figure in that SS'll probably last as long as 5 sets of regular nickel/silver frets... now factor in time and effort for one refret vs. 5 refrets. Of course, this is just hypothetical comparision... real world yada, yada... mileage may vary.
SS'll probably be best for vintage instruments that are played (not displayed) where repeated refretting'll probably chip out the old fretboard.
Well, anyway, I got the OK to post my contact's info but I've got a fuggin' raging headache right now. I'll do a proper write up with links to the guy, etc... later tonight. Ugh, gotta sleep.
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For the right price...I am interested!
What would th equivilant dunlop fretsize be?
600,6100,6105????
Ok, I got some more info. It's about $45 for two 25.250" lengths (enough for one guitar)... plus shipping. For ten lengths, $200. Price is much higher than standard frets but you'll probably never have to refret after installing these puppies. The price is also much less than Hefner's.
Here is a listing of available sizes, you can compare to the Dunlop chart equivelants.
Crown Width Crown Height Tang width 0.094 0.051 0.024 0.106 0.039 0.024 0.110 0.055 0.024 0.083 0.037 0.020 0.105 0.035 0.020 0.090 0.055 0.020 0.109 0.055 0.020 0.105 0.045 0.020 0.090 0.045 0.020
I'm waiting for the OK from my contact to release his name and contact info before I post. I'm not in any way connected to this commercially... I just "met" him in another guitar forum.
He also gave me a lot of useful tips for working with SS frets. I'll post these too if anyone's interested.
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Anyone still interested in SS frets?
Ooooh! Shiny!
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ya know,kim is a strange name for a guitar nerd
Hmm......
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Must be some Canadian connection, eh.
Eh, indeed!
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This is how I sound through these speakers. I hope Satch won't mind me changing his tune a bit:
That sounded pretty good. Strange thing is, your rendition reminded me of Rush... it was as if Rush covered the Satch tune
. Strange indeed, I probably need sleep . -
Hmm... MusicYo is being a little sneaky. Last week it said "Sale Ends 11/30/2003" now the page say "Sale Ends 12/31/2003." Well, at least it's still $59.99. Oh, and if anyone was wondering, shipping is $7.95 to NY (didn't order it though.)
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Btw I love Asia especially Korea,all my guitars are Korean made and my car(Deawoo) is from Korea and even my microwave is Korean and the quality of there products are getting better all the time.
At this rate, you're going to wind up with a Korean wife
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Stainless steel fret wire
in Solidbody Guitar and Bass Chat
Posted
Sorry krazyderek, I'm in no way involved in this commercially... I'm just passing info along to this forum because I've gotten so much for myself here. I'm not getting anything out of this. You should shoot Kevin some e-mail for definitive info. The introduction post that I made earlier was a condensation of the all the e-mails we've been shooting back and forth.
Hmm... I re-read the e-mails he send me... I forgot to mention that there is a 7-10 day lead time to order PLUS the week or so to ship from HK. Here are some lines from the e-mail:
I'm probably going order one set for myself to start.