Invader Zim

3 hours ago, spindlebox said:

 I believe Acoustic guitars - YES that makes a massive difference, but for electric - not so much.  I won't be getting into any "tonewood" debate here either.  

Take this for what it is worth:

"HUMAN CONTROLLED SYSTEMS of SPL generation are an INTEGRATED system that stretches all the way from the skill/intentions of the player to the movement of the speaker cone in the room.  A (hopefully) harmonious system that is inter-dependant (to varying degrees and often in a bewilderingly complicated series of relationships) 

ON EVERY SINGLE COMPONENT IN THE SYSTEM.  Again.  INTEGRATED SYSTEM, DEPENDANT TO VARYING DEGREES ON EVERY COMPONENT IN THE  SYSTEM.

EVERY SINGLE COMPONENT IN THE WHOLE  SYSTEM MATTERS TO SOME  DEGREE, IN SOME  RESPECT.

The pick matters.

Dude.

The FUCKING PICK MATTERS."

It is no debate, just carefully and critically listen. 

Complete seat of the pants neck reinforcement engineering.  The graphite is layered with

strips of mahogany and sandwiched between strips of Formica.  Each step of the lamination

process  I placed the bars in a clamp at the 22.5% point and listened to the sound when I set them in motion.

These beams were quite lively and worked  wonderfully in an 11 string electric alto guitar/ lute.

I had misrouted the slots so it was a good time for something different.

CA gel was used for laminating and installation.

I'm trying to be helpful here because misusing and/or misunderstanding a term can lead one astray.

Hardness is confused with stiffness quite often and understandably so. Steel is a great example.

Moment Of Inertia and Modulus Of Elasticity of a material can be a helpful guide when designing

or building a beam. A neck is a beam. Think about resonance and how the construction of a neck

influences and causes changes in resonance. Look at how Warwick installs short bars at a strategic area

on their necks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZwjJSQB0z4

My problem with epoxy is it needs to be measured and mix properly for OPTIMAL results. I've also

experienced glue softening and shear failure on 20 year old work. I use it only when CA is impractical.

Use slow cure CA gel when gluing in graphite or Titanium neck reinforcements.

YMMV.

I'm curious why hardness is of a concern here when stiffness is more pertinent.

As I posted in your Wood ID thread, MOE and MOI are what should be of concern.

I would suggest Titanium reinforcement.

https://asm.matweb.com/search/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnum=MTP641

On 10/19/2022 at 4:15 PM, spindlebox said:

 I don't know if I really believe in tone wood for electric guitars.

2 hours ago, spindlebox said:

  Yes, my first neck was laminated and it was a great deal of fun.  I am going to try visually going for a few different species - I love how it looks with contrast running down the neck.  

 

Using different species for neck laminations will quickly reveal how they contribute to the tone of a guitar. A neck made of laminated mahogany will sound very different that  one made of mahogany and maple, or purple heart or ebony or rosewood................

The benefit of laminating is an increase in stiffness and strength.

Be aware that resonant frequencies will change with the number of laminations which can be to your advantage, or not.

Check this link on neck woods:

http://www.alembic.com/info/wood_neck.html

16 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

 

Finally, no matter what the species is, for a neck you'd need something that's hard enough to withstand the string pull. I like laminated necks, 

Perhaps you mean stiffness since hardness is the measure of a material's resistance to surface deformation.

MOE and MOI are more pertinent when dealing with a beam which is what a guitar neck is.

MOE or Modulus Of Elasticity,  is the ratio of stress to strain or the stiffness of the material of a structural member.

More simply, the resistance to deformation.  MOE generally refers to the overall stiffness.

Just cut a few inches off of a test piece of wood and listen to what happen to the frequency from your initial test.

15 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

 

If you're going to use those pieces for building guitars, do a simple test: Hang them loosely between your thumb and index finger at about the 1/3 spot and knock.

Hold at a spot 22.4% of the total length of what you want to evaluate.

Here's a basic version of a SCE (solid classical electric) in pine.

Chet Atkins CE by Gibson

I'm gonna necro post here for a bit of background that may useful. ( See the Ice-Stroyer thread. )

From the start this was about the original 21 fret Charvel Star guitars. I wanted a guitar in the spirit those guitars.

I like the ESP Kami motif and the image I used was of a Kami model with a very square on front view.

Weight, balance and hand position were very much in my thoughts. Two changes that made sense for me was to shift

the neck to have a standard bolt-on 16th fret join and a thinner body thickness of 1.1875".  This guitar is for Thrash Metal

so the glory is in the MIDS. A maple neck, slim mahogany body and an OG Dimarzio X2-N guaranteed a good time.

Original quick concept sketch to get my cuts figured out with the wood on hand. The pickup, and the bridge from my

OG Schecter Dream Machine in situ.

3 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

Just out of curiosity, what is your usual method?

 Getting a good square on photo and follow thusly:

For some context:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qf7nI03wRWc

Before I head to the print shop for my usual method of making a template, 

does anyone have or know of a line drawing of the Ice-Stroyer as pictured?

8 hours ago, curtisa said:

This one?

https://www.gitarrebassbau.de/viewtopic.php?t=6

Yes, thank you.

May your side prevail in State of Origin.

I realize now it is a German site that has an aggregate of many plans. I just cannot find it online as my DuckDuckGoFu is not up to the task.

I thought there was a link here.

Where is the thread with all the various guitar plans? 

I feel inept that I can't find it.

2 hours ago, avengers63 said:

.When it's done, this should be comparable to a $5K-10K instrument. 

I also contacted Lindy Fralin about making me a set of humbuckers built like these....

He's good with it, but they'd be about $250/each.

 

The "but" in the above sentence kind of invalidates the premise you have laid out in the first.

Damn the torpedoes and build the guitar you want to build.

20 hours ago, Gregore said:

Thank you!

Here is the original template with a legit ESP George Lynch Skull & Snakes neck. ( slightly modified )

On 3/16/2022 at 10:11 PM, Gregore said:

This is a BEAUTIFUL design. I like that the points are more severe than some of the other star shaped models from the 80’s. The guild flying star 84 was a cool one too! Do you sell these bodies? Or would you happen to have a template for this design. I would love to build one like it!

This is a copy of the ESP Kami/Star.  I sent the color file to the local print shop and simply had them enlarge the image by xxx% so the final image would measure 12.75" from the 12th fret to the bridge line. I cut the image out and that was my template. Super simple and easy to do when you have a solid reference measurement to work with.

14 hours ago, Crusader said:

I can't play them because the plectrum hits the pickup.

 

 

This.

3 hours ago, Bizman62 said:

Calculated, estimated, taken into account...

I mean when you go thin enough with the body there's at least these two points that require some further thinking: The neck pocket and the body between the neck and the bridge. Instead of strength we may also use the term "structural integrity".

If the bottom of the neck pocket is very thin the screws may pop through. A set neck in a neck pocket deep enough to have the neck at the proper angle or depth might be a bit stronger as the sides of the heel would be a bit more supported. But if the bottom of the neck pocket is too thin it may give in. Also, a cutaway like on a Strat or Tele would take most of the support away from that side, not to mention dual cut bodies like the SG or LP.

Also, if the body is very thin it may bend or wobble. Channels and cavities in a thin body can almost literally cut the body apart - think about a Strat with a pool for pickups, there's not much wood between the neck and the jack even in the standard thickness.

There's ways to strengthen the construction but it requires some understanding in the forces like string pull in rest and during playing. Simplified, we know that the scale of a guitar is ~25" and that the neck including a stiffening truss rod is about 2/3 of the scale length. Imagine building a bridge that long with a joint after one third, the measurements being similar to a guitar. How much weight would you dare to put on the joint?

Strats with trems are abominable but the design still works structurally. But I get your point.

120lbs to 130lbs of string  tension has yet to hinder any of my excursions even like this quite light and thin Star.

Purposely built with material on hand. 1..1875" thick and the only concern I had was screw length.  .625" standard bolt-on depth left .5625" of material.

Your mileage will vary of course but I say build with what you've got.  To get better at skateboarding you have to go skateboarding.

On 7/19/2021 at 1:22 PM, Bizman62 said:

 

1 1/4" is pretty much at the bare minimum for a guitar. I wouldn't try to build that thin as a first build, not even as a second or third unless you're familiar with designing, general woodworking and calculating strength.

 

Curious what strength needs to be calculated?

On 7/31/2021 at 10:09 AM, Andyjr1515 said:

For those who don't know, the Gibson Trini Lopez Deluxe was 335 based, but had florentine horns rather than rounded ones, had diamond sound holes and a fenderish/firebirdish 6 in a row headstock.  Here's a pic of one:

 

The Barney Kessel Model came out in 1961. 

On 7/22/2021 at 8:02 AM, Prostheta said:

Quite a lot of these dimensions can likely be derived by measuring.............a known value such as the speaker diameter.

 

Outer diameter of an EVM-12L = 12.2".

I used that to infer the rest of the measurements against known dimensions.

Thus my first mockup. It needs some refinement but it is a close starting point.