Foggy

The problem with spattering, either using something like a toothbrush as you suggested, or an airbrush, is that the spatter can be very uneven and you can end up with lots of little 'streaks' in amongst your spattering, not a pretty effect as a rule. I think metz guitar paint is on the money with this one as to how it was done. It's a very easy effect to re-create so you should have no problem getting a decent sprayer to do it for you. Jim

Probably better off with that option - very possible that the wood beneath the paint on the Squire wouldn't have been that great anyway Jim

The way the GB Pound is plumeting against the Dollar , why just stick to luthiers in the Denver Colorado area, or even just the States ?

Gold leaf isn't that difficult to work with, depending on the quality of the gold leaf and how pure it is. Some gold leaf is affected (bubbled) by 2k lacquers, but, if it's sealed with nail varnish first it takes 2k lacquers okay. I'm working on a guitar at the moment using gold leaf, creates some amazing effects. Jim

Neat piece of work...........was gonna say 'smokin', but thought that was just too corny even for me! Interesting with the mandolins, my partner in crime (the brains of the outfit) is heavily into making mandolins, some, of the very quirky variety. Don't know if it's the done thing, but I'll stick a link up to Dicks site, you might be interested in taking a look. Dick Levens Website Jim

Yes, I'm with ihocky2 on this one. I'd be tempted to go straight to primer, though I have used sanding sealers before. I also used waterbased sealers under the solvent based primers and paints that I usually use with no problems, so as long as you prime with an appropriate primer for your basecoat you shouldn't have too many problems. Jim

Always be kinda wary of adding any kind of wax to a surface you're planning to clearcoat or lacquer afterwards, as it will also potentially act as a resist to the final finish you apply. Particularly around an inlay like this, as the resist will unneringly find a place to hide in the smallest gap in the surface (around the inlay) and regardless of how carefully you clean up afterwards, potentially cause you all kinds of problems when you come to shoot your finish coat. Jim

Frisk masking film is specifically designed for this kind of work. It's a low tack transparent film commonly used by airbrush artists, though it comes in a roll, so if you only want a very small amount it wouldn't be very economical to buy a whole roll. I use it all the time so if it's any use to you, email me your postal address and I'll send you a piece in the post and see how you get on with it. Jim

Really do appreciate the comments guys. Thank you Jim

That is a beautiful guitar, classy. Jim

If it was a premixed lacquer sprayed from an aerosol, then it's probably just the lacquer thats to blame (they do vary a lot between brands). If it was a two part lacquer that you mixed yourself and then either sprayed or brushed on, it could just be that you didn't mix it at the right ratio, lacquer to hardner. The other possibility is that you maybe didn't let the coats dry out sufficiently before you applied the next coat, but without knowing a bit more about the lacquer and the application it's difficult to say. But you have my sympathy with this one, very few things more frustrating than when you get to the last stages of a finish and it doesn't turn out right. Hope you get it sorted. Jim

I hadn't heard of Mike Learn until I checked out the link, some awesome artwork there. Neat guitar you got going on there too, look forward to seeing the end results after it's painted. Jim

Well, we finally have the guitar together for a first fit and all wired up, it sounds awesome too even at this stage. Still a couple of mods to be done before the guitar is perfectly setup but couldn't resist taking some piccies, so thought I'd let you have a peek. Jim

If your applying a solid colour to the guitar, then unless the paint already applied to it is either very thickly applied, very badly applied, or so much of it is damaged as to warrant removing whats left, then more often than not you're better off just rubbing the existing finish back, filling where necessary and priming prior to basecoating. To take the guitar right back to the wood is fine enough if that's the way you want to do it, but you'll then have to re-seal the wood and prime from scratch again - a process that has already been done once when the first paint was applied. To work over the existing finish you'll have to rub it right back anyway to remove anything that might affect subsequent coats of paint and lacquer, as well as to give the new paint a rough enough surface to 'key' onto. This rubbing down will reduce the original paint layer(s) right back anyway, so your new paint and finish (applied properly) will only replace pretty much what you've removed. Remember, we're not plastering paint and finish on here - and there's lots of rubbing down between finish coats (and almost certainly before final polishing your first few times round), so the extra thickness of paint is miniscule. There will inevitably be those that disagree here, but personally I think that unless you have an incredibly fine ear for tone I'd very much doubt you'll perceive any difference at all if you do the job right. Plaster umpteen layers of paint and finish onto the guitar and then don't rub down properly during the finishing stages - yes there will likely be an effect, but bodged like that, the detrimental effect to the tone will simply just reflect the mess the guitar will look anyway. Regarding the amount of finish you'll need - all depends on what finish you decide upon and how well you can apply it - but if it's you're first time I'd advise erring on the generous side, you then have enough to practice with (always adviseable) and - should it not go on right the first time - enough to redo the finish as necessary to get a good result. Hope this helps Jim

A picture of the guitar would help assess the degree of prep required The finish you use will depend very much on the kit that you have (or are prepared to buy), where you live (regarding local regulations) and what facilities and basic knowledge you have, though there are already lots of very informative threads and tutorials on here covering the preparation, painting and finishing of guitars to guide you. Jim

No problem at all - we fellow Celts have to stick together after all Regarding the mask, positive pressure masks are the 'ideal' recomended form of mask, but then again, unless you have an industrial sized compressor it's unlikely that it would run a positive pressure mask and your spraygun too............mine certainly won't. So many people (and professional sprayshops too) often use a good quality filtered mask like the Gerson mask, 3M also do a slightly cheaper to buy, but still very good mask that works perfectly well. The beauty of the Gerson though, is that it has a two filter sytem (a pre filter and secondary filter), the pre filter being replaceable (unlike the filter on the 3M mask), so that by replacing the filters the mask can last a long time and reduce the overall cost. But I'm sure there are others who will chip in here with other possible alternatives. Jim

Interesting reading this. The strangest thing about almost everyone who use poly finishes is that they nearly all have their own opinions and methods about how it should be done. Trouble is, someone else may try and use the exact same method and it won't always work for them quite the same. Likewise having tried various different methods along the way with varying degrees of success (and disaster), I ended up finding a method that works for me. But crucially - and this I think is the main point - a method that works for me with the particular kit that I've got, used where I use it. When I'm applying poly I apply a really light 'misting' of finish to the surface of the guitar first with a 0.8 or 1mm nozzle, applied with the least pressure possible through the gun that will still atomise the finish for an even, very light 'misting' coat (basically just a quick sweep of the gun over the whole surface of the guitar body). I leave this for a couple of minutes, maybe five at most (I'm using a fast acting hardner), then apply a second slightly heavier - but still comparatively light - coat of finish. This I then leave for fifteen to twenty minutes and then apply another coat of lacquer, this time applying it in what I'd call a normal coat, heavy enough to cover evenly, but not so heavy as to risk runs or pooling. As this coat goes onto the guitar it doesn't generally go on looking perfectly shiney and smooth, it has a very slightly grainy looking effect when first applied. If you try and get it to look shiney straight out of the gun at this stage chances are you've applied too much. But leave this coat for another twenty to thirty minutes (leave the 'normal coats' slightly longer to flash dry before re-coating),and when you go back to apply the next coat it will have leveled out and should be starting to look fairly smooth and even. Once I've repeated this process until I've got three or four proper coats (and the original light misting coat), I then leave it for 24 - 48 hours to cure out. Then I generally rub the finish back with 1000 grade wet until it's perfectly smooth and there's no shiney spots anywhere on the surface and then repeat the clearcoating process again. The second time through the process the finish should go on really nicely and unless you have major issues with the application, will often be good enough for a really nice finish when rubbed down and finish polished. It all depends on how the coats go on as to whether third session of finishing coat needs to be applied or not. Rubbing back for polishing is another one where everyone has their own method that works for them. After my finish is to a standard that I'm happy with it, it'll at most need rubbing down with 1200 grade wet and dry, if it's gone on really well I'll sometimes just start straight in with 2000 grade wet and dry - but it's usually 1200! I do have electric polishers and the various recommended cutting compounds, but again here, I'm not terribly trusting of electric polishers - far too easy to go through a finish and make a mess of my work - so I always polish my guitars totally by hand. Takes longer and it's a pain in the butt of a job, but the end results are worth it for me...........and it's safe! Once I've got the whole body perfectly smooth and flaw free with 2000 wet and dry, I then normally just use T Cut, on a duster, by hand to finish my guitars. I know there will be people out there howling now that T Cut is far too aggressive a compound to be finishing a guitar with - but on a soft cloth with lot's of elbow grease it works for me. I too read LGM's tutorial and very informative it was too, in fact so much so that I ordered a full selection of Micro Mesh - and tried them out on the Guardian Guitar I'm polishing up now - it didn't work out for me though (obviously the way I was doing it), so I re-sanded with 2000 grade wet and dry and spent two days polishing with T Cut as I normally do. I do now have a finish that I'd challenge anybody to find a flaw in though. Basically, it's really all just down to personal preference and what works best for you with the kit and the knowledge that you've got. A good quality mask is absolutely essential when spraying poly's, along with good ventilation, preferably filtered in and out of your spraying area - and no ignition sources from either electrical fittings or any other open flame around the spraying area (it's highly flammable as well as deadly on the lungs). Ideally it's recommended to use a positive pressure mask when spraying poly's, but the very least you need is a really good quality vapour filtering mask (merely dust filtering simply isn't enough!), I use a 'Gerson' mask most of the time. HVLP stands for 'High Volume Low Pressure' as I'm sure you'll know. This means in very simple terms that the paint or finish used through the gun is atomised at the nozzle to give an even coat at the lowest pressure possible. This is a common advantage of gravity fed type guns, where because of the gravity feed, extra high pressure airflow isn't then necessary to create the low pressure area (via venturi effect) inside the gun, which in turn effectively sucks the paint or finish up to the nozzle from a bottom or side mounted resevoir. This means there is less air pressure being exhausted out of the nozzle along with the paint or finish, which greatly reduces overspray and wasted paint, but also reduces the risks of applying too much finish at too higher pressures - and the associated problems that can then arise. Anyway, I'm rambling on and no doubt sending folks to sleep so I'm going to go do some work. But hope this helps rather than confuses the issue even further. Jim

That is really beautiful work, never ceases to amaze me the craftsmanship that goes into building an instrument like this. If there was a channel on the telly just showing guitars like this one being built I'd never need the remote again! Jim

Bert In many respects (with the exception of the initial preparation stages when painting from raw wood), the process is very similar between spraying a solid colour finish on a guitar and applying many two pack finishes (basecoat & clearcoat) on, say a car or a motorcycle. The main differences with a guitar body come in the initial preparation stages and the final finishing stages. I know of several very good airbrush artists who work quite regularly on guitars but who don't have their own spraybooths setup for applying their own clearcoat finishes. They regularly take their painted guitar bodies to 'good' car bodyshops to get their finish coats applied. They then simply take their clearcoated bodies and complete the all important final rubbing down and polishing work in house - their finished results are pretty good too. The main difference between poly guitar finishes and most finishes on your average car is the attention to detail and time taken to ensure that the finish is as thin and as flawless as possible - you wouldn't tend to go over your average car with a jewelers eyepiece checking the finish for flaws, but on a professional, quality guitar finish it needs to stand up to just that kind of scrutiny. As long as the finish is applied properly and evenly in the sprayshop doing the work for you, it's really then all down to the time taken and the attention to detail during the final rubbing down and polishing stages that will determine the end result - and I don't doubt that in this particular case, that work will be done with the greatest of care. Jim

If you rub the guitars finish back with 800 or 1000 grade wet and dry to start with you'll be able to clearly see any minor imperfections in the surface of the guitar. Obviously you're already aware of some of the worse ones, but you'll likely notice more once you've taken the shine off of the surface. When you've identified the deeper marks, these I would normally fill with Davids Isopon P38 (autobody repair putty) if the guitar was to have a solid colour finish. Once the filler has hardened, rub it down again so that it is again as near smooth as you can possibly get it. Once you think it's all pretty smooth, I'd then apply a primer coat to the guitar. This will serve two purposes, filling many very minor scratches in the guitar that are too small to be filled with filler, but also showing out any imperfections remaining after you're filling/rubbing down. It might be adviseable to get some tins of aerosol primer for this very purpose (but make sure that they are compatible with the paint system your painter is going to use on your guitar). It can't be stressed enough how essential it is to a really good finish to get the preparation stages as perfect as possible - probably 'THE' most important stage of any repaint/refinish. So time spent at this stage will pay dividends later on, even if it means repeating the rubbing down, filling, rubbing down, priming, rubbing down stages four or five times until the resulting primed body is absolutely perfectly smooth and uniform. Incidentally, the guy who is going to be painting your guitar for you will think you're the best thing since sliced bread if you hand him a perfectly prepared guitar body..................I know I certainly would! Jim

I am thinking that most automotive "touch-up" paints in rattle cans, are intended to be used without a clear coat over the top. My test piece now has a good thickness of just such a paint. I will let it cure for a day or so, and see how it comes up with some sanding/polishing. Yes, you're probably right on that one, it's usually only the metallic finishes that require a lacquer coat out of touch up cans right enough. Just thinking that if you are using rattle cans and you're trying to get a high shine on the finish, as has already been advised by Mickguard micromesh might be your answer, then possibly a really good automotive polish - as it's automotive paint you're using.

In the simplist of terms it all depends on the paint that you're using. Some paints are specifically designed be applied and then sealed with a lacquer or finish coat (these are commonly known as 'basecoat' paints), other paints are mixed specifically as one application paints and don't need any finishing after application. If you use a 2 pack basecoat white paint (designed for a lacquer finish coat) and then don't seal it in, it'll soon look very 'second hand' and I wouldn't imagine it'll last very long without the protection of lacquer. As for alternatives to clearcoating base paints - have to admit I don't know having only ever used lacquers over paints. Even if you're spraying from rattlecans I'm fairly sure you'll be able to find an 'all in one' white paint that doesn't need any laquer coat to seal it in, I'd have thought this was a far better option for a straightforward white finish. Jim

That's a neat piece of work, very clever - must've taken a while to put that together? Some nice guitars there too

Much of what you say is quite right and indicates a certain amount of knowledge on the subject, so generally I have no problem with most of it. However, I don't agree with everything you've said by any stretch. There is indeed nothing at all wrong with oiled finishes or put another way, the older traditional techniques of finishing instruments. Some instruments are far better suited to this type of finishing and to finish them with modern lacquers and urethanes would take away from the feel and often the tone of the instrument - particularly acoustic instruments. I would suggest however, that many, if not most 'serious' luthiers do already use, or have at some stage used oils for finishing their instruments. That said and a point I do take issue with, is the arguement that modern finishes are only used due to the ease of application, that is complete rubbish. The fact of the matter is, that some solid bodied instruments are far better suited to and ideed benefit from modern lacquered and urethane finishes, both from a durability standpoint and the finish requirements of the instruments owner. There is undoubtedly a place for all the different finishes both traditional and comparatively modern, depending on personal preference and the particular instruments involved, but to start making blanket statements about what 'serious' luthiers should or shouldn't be doing is, in my opinion, more than a little patronising. Jim