Geo

With a pickup at the second octave you cancel lower harmonics than you can with a 24 fret guitar and let me explain further what this means. I am using the 5th string as an example

At the open string it cancels every fourth harmonic

A A E A C# E G A B C# D E F# G G# A

You get the Fundamental and the first octave but above that all octaves are cancelled along with others

At the 12th fret every second harmonic is cancelled

A A E A C# E G A B C# D E F# G G# A

You only get the Fundamental because all the octaves of it are cancelled. And it’s the same for other harmonics up the series

Of course in other areas of the fretboard you don’t get this in fact at the 5th fret none of the octaves of the Fundamental are lost, because it is every third harmonic cancelled

D D A D F# A C D E F# G A B C C# D

If you listen carefully you can hear it is kind of “inverted” from the sound you get at the 12th fret or open string

Do you have a table that applies this kind of analysis to every fret on every string? Or maybe a graphic representation would be better than text.

I see what PSW is saying, and I at least would like to see all the data for the entire fingerboard.

Thinking out loud here...

It doesn't really matter which harmonics are canceled at the neck pickup node; the main thing is that many of them are, and string lengths at different frets will have different harmonics canceled over the neck pickup. This hunch is borne out in my ear too: the neck pickup seems to have a much greater variety of timbre across the fingerboard than the bridge pickup does.

Can we see your data for every fret? Probably don't need it for every string, because (ignoring intonation adjustment for the moment) all the strings have the same scale length, so it's only the harmonic numbers for a given length of string that matter--we can translate that into intervals or note names.

Geo- no finish on the black locust. It's one of the hardest woods in the US. It has a somewhat open pored grain, though, so it will collect some grime.

Have you tried it as a neck wood yet? If so, any comments?

I'll stop hijacking now.

Wow, that is so creative... congrats on a great design!

Did you finish the black locust FB? We have those trees everywhere in Ohio, and I'm curious as to how you would handle it for a FB.

Maybe I try a thicker string set (0.56 - 0.11) or tune it up, not down

Sounds like you got it under control!

By the way it looks great!

Wow.

Great work!!! I love the simplicity. It looks like something that would be growing out in a forest.

I will try to use standard tunning with a string set of 0.54 - 0.10, but if i heard somo tunning problems i'll tunnig down a whole step.

It seems like at that scale length, with normal strings, you might want to tune up a minor third. My reasoning is, your scale length is about 4/5 standard, and if you apply that ratio to the 12 semitones of our scale, you chop off three of them.

Another way to look at it is to measure out 20" from the bridge on a standard guitar and see what fret it lands nearest to. Then tune the small guitar like you would a normal guitar capoed at that fret.

Or, if you want it at standard tuning, you'll probably need much heavier strings (and your low E might not sound too good).

Wow, very classy! Any chance of a sound clip?

Looks good! I like the F holes.

What tuning will you be using?

I mean, like i said, playing a few songs alone in my room is just not that great anymore, especially since i cannot get any better.

Right... you gotta get out there and play with others. My playing abilities only ever improved when I was in a band and having other people challenge me to keep up with them.

I see no problem in building what you want to build. So other people would be bored... just do what you enjoy.

Wow... your work is so classy! Your finishes look amazing!!!

Love the Ric bass, no. 26, and no. 24 especially.

But, what I am having trouble getting my head around is how these diagrams relate to fretting on any string. To me it looks as if even fretted on the 5th fret, the '4 wave harmonic' is going to condense up and be somewhat opposite to the open string. This is pretty much as I would expect, that when a note is fretted, the string length changes and so then all the harmonics must move along with it...however, the neck pickup, where ever it is positioned is stationary, therefore, it would seem obvious that as soon as you start fretting notes, the relative position of the pickup in relation to the string length and all the harmonics must move. It was brought up last time this conjecture was put forward but I don't see a convincing explanation of why it wouldn't do what seems obvious as the string shortens with fretting.

So a comprehensive understanding has to take EVERYTHING into consideration:

-nodes of all harmonics of significant amplitude, on each string and each fret

-harmonic bias from pick position

-amplitude of initial attack (since it will affect the frequency of the fundamental and, I assume, the frequencies of the harmonics)

-width of node (do nodes have width, or is it just apparent because of the low amplitude around the node?)

-width and height and shape of pickup sensing field

-and probably a whole lot more!

I see your point, but a guitar string is not an ideal string. The simplest representation of it requires a differential equation that requires an initial condition, such as pick placement, string displacement, etc. Any other representation is entirely too simplistic. In physics, we have a joke referred to as the "spherical cow" which pokes fun at our habit of simplifying problems as much as possible in order to make the math nice. Using a purely ideal string is much like modeling a cow as a sphere. Pick placement is not merely a technique or some "other" factor. Pickup placement and an analysis of the spectral output simply cannot be looked at independently of where the string is plucked (or struck, which is a totally different initial condition). I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just think that a lot of the people who talk about strings vibrating simply don't know (usually because it gets very mathematical) about the interdependence between the two.

Right... all I'm saying is, perhaps this factor can be considered separately and then considered in light of pick placement. But I'm not a scientist, so I don't know.

With all due respect... it seems that the point of the OP is getting lost here. Where the string is plucked is obviously a huge factor in the final tone, as are all other aspects of playing technique, guitar and pickup construction, and amp technology. But I don't think we're talking about the final tone yet.

OP, correct me...

The only factors in the OP's entirely theoretical point are:

1) harmonic nodes and anti-nodes along a theoretical vibrating string that has no harmonic bias from pick position

2) placement of pickup along the length of the string, and portion of string length over which the pickup senses

Of course all other factors are important, but perhaps they should build on each other.

Carry on.

I'm still a little confused about "Church Bass". Now I know what a regular Bass is, but how is a "Church Bass" Different? Does it only play amazing grace or something? Limited to 70 BPM? Not allow slapback?

Sorry, I crack myself up.

No, it only plays I-V-vi-IV progressions in root position.

Don't worry, as a church musician who likes playing church music, I'm allowed to knock it!

Wow, I'm impressed with how clean and methodical you are. This does NOT look like a first project! Great job!

I don't think it comes down to "the 2nd octave is a sweet spot and it's all subjective".

Well, unless there is one general all including "best tone" that everyone agrees on, this is all going to be highly subjective.

I agree... I am more interested in the science behind it than finding a subjective sweet spot. Maybe it's just me, but I find the harmonic series and its relationship to tuning and temperament fascinating.

I found where you get the best sound (see diagram 2) is also where the most cancellations are but it also depends on which harmonics are cancelled

At the 12th fret every second harmonic is cancelled

A A E A C# E G A B C# D E F# G G# A

This means you never hear the octaves of the fundamental so it is closest to a Pure Tone and sounds the best

At the open string every fourth harmonic is cancelled

A A E A C# E G A B C# D E F# G G# A

At the 5th fret every third harmonic is cancelled

D D A D F# A C D E F# G A B C C# D

You hear every octave of the fundamental so it is less of a Pure Tone and is probably why it does not sound as sweet as the open string or the 12th fret

So to sum it up in a brief explanation

"A pickup at the second octave cancels lower order harmonics leaving the fundamental of most notes on the fretboard as an almost pure tone"

I hope I haven’t gone overboard with this explanation but there are still other factors I have not mentioned

It looks like you're going about it systematically. I recall in your other thread (a year ago maybe) that people brought up how the nodes shift for every fretted note. It looks like you're taking this into consideration, which makes your theory far more valid in my mind.

Other things to consider... harmonics of open string even when it's fretted, string ringing along its ENTIRE length (behind nut and bridge), equal tempered frets being out of tune with open string harmonic nodes, etc., etc., etc.

I say, dive into the dirty details!

I would have to disagree with the other replies--I DO think there's something to this, and I don't think it comes down to "the 2nd octave is a sweet spot and it's all subjective".

The thickness of the tape is probably negligible.

I would imagine that with dual truss rods, you would crank one rod a few degrees, then the other the exact same few degrees, then repeat; i.e. moving in small increments and making sure you adjust each truss rod equally. I would go in small increments so the neck doesn't twist too much.

Leave it like that!

Looks good. Keep up the good work.

Think of the neck as a lever. It pivots from the guitar's center of gravity as it hangs on a strap on your shoulder. The LENGTH of the neck, the WEIGHT at the end of the neck, and the weight and length of the other end of the lever are the important aspects.

The weight of the actual neck wood may have less of an effect than neck length relative to center of gravity, headstock size, and tuner weight.

What exactly is the problem?

Both units have inputs and outputs, so just get some patch cables and connect them in a chain to your amp. I.e.:

guitar --> input of unit 1

output of unit 1 --> input of unit 2

output of unit 2 --> input of amp

there's definitely something addictive about the process and something deeply satisfying the presses both my man button and my musician button at the same time.

Word.

BTW I love the chunky cutout for the jack.

This one looks great!

Well, as with anything else, it's a balance between what you think your time is worth and what someone else thinks your WORK is worth.

In my mind, ~$1500 would be the abject minimum for a hand-built, simple solidbody guitar. But that was just from my own calculations a few years ago--I don't remember the breakdown.

I hate to be negative, but....

Wow. Yet another mahogany explorer with a waterfall bubinga veneer top and KL headstock. It kinda loses it's mystique after the tenth one.

Ever consider something else, or these only for sale? I know you've said they sell well for you, so I 100% get it if that's the motivation.

For me, new designs and wood combos are not the only interesting thing in guitarbuilding. I find an example of flawless craftsmanship just as interesting as a new design.

Awesome work! My first from-scratch build had a redwood top... it wasn't all that playable, and after 4 years of string tension without a truss rod, the action is about 1/2"... still, that figure has a soft spot in my heart! That guitar sure did sound good in DADGAD...

ANYWAY... great work, can't wait to see these done.