knuckle_head

...do you ever have fretting problems?it said somewhere to make the slots slightly wider...but i don't see why that would be needed,since the fret tang compresses anyway...

you say you like the tonal benifits....it feels less "snappy" than ebony to me...could you explain your take on what it sounds like to me?

McMaster offers up jewelers blades that have an odd arbor, but a variety of kerf widths - I get my slots wide enough that the tangs grab and catch the ends with a bit of cyano just for peace of mind. I have never had my phenolic chip out but I have had it not accept fret wire.

It isn't quite as snappy as ebony, but it is awfully close. I like the notion that it was not packed out of an African forest unbeknownst to anyone...

As for bonding it to the neck, if the back surface is sanded to 150 Gorilla glue works well. I have had success with Titebond II and III as well.

A couple of things...

Don't use steel as a reinforcement. Its weight to rigidity factor is awful. You are far better served with graphite spars (LMI).

I would be very concerned about neck construction if you are counting on fret board material to make your neck more rigid. By virtue of a mated surface you are picking up stability in two directions already regardless of material. I use 5 lam neck sections with carbon fiber fabric as two of the layers and stability is wholely provided under the fret board. That's as it should be.

I use garolite because of its sound and its appearance. It really is worth a go.

How are those neodynium pickups sounding??

Best sounding, most powerful passive, Hi Z humbuckers I have ever heard.

Wow... Excellent work! Is it just the fb, or the *whole bass* thats made out of the black phenolic?

(that would almost be the equivalent of an all-ebony bass)

I also found this while Googling, for Norplex's version "Micarta"

http://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/490659

Reading the text of that, they're clearly going for the guitar (ebony) market:

The material is constructed from a high quality black paper substrate and a black phenolic resin, making it ideal for a variety of architectural and construction applications that require a pure black surface. MC844G can also be used in various functional and decorative parts on musical instruments, such as guitar finger boards and bridges, and develops a patina with age and use. Additionally, MC844G is easy to machine.

The head cap, nut and fretboard are Garolite - the body is figured maple with a semitransparent black shellac. This one has to be my favorite to date (keep that to yourself - I don't want angry emails from my customers).

Micarta sounds every bit the same as Garolite given the description. I don't think I'd care for an instrument made of it as it is awfully heavy. I hadn't considered using it as neck stringers but there is a possibility there - I use carbon fiber fabric in my necks so I think phenolic/garolite/micarta would be overkill.

anyway to see a pic of it used?

Here's a fretless I did;

It holds up very well.

Hey Skip, I recognize you from Talkbass. Nice to see you over here... I hope you'll stick around and offer some of your knowledge. Your instruments are very impressive, and you've got some really innovatiove ideas going.

I think a lot of DIY'ers are interested in composite materials, but are put off by high prices and specialized tools/techniques. I know some of this stuff is probably trade secret, but I was wondering if you would answer some questions about your fingerboards.

Specifically, which variety of garolite do you use for your fingerboards? I haven't been able to find much for information, but I did read about a guy that was using the XX grade for neck laminates. From the McMaster data it looks like the material would be strong enough for fingerboard use, and it's cheap, too. Can it be machined with standard woodworking tools? I'd image the glass-cloth varieties would be murder on router bits and saw blades, but what about the paper-based ones? Also, what about safety? Is a respirator good enough, or do you wear gloves/protective clothing, too? What kind of glue can be used to attach the fretboard? Epoxy? Do you find radiusing the boards to be much more difficult than working with ebony and other hardwoods? As for fretting, is it the same as for wood, or do you have to glue the frets in?

I use McMaster's Garolite - phenolic by any other name... - I am using it for head caps, nuts and fret boards. It gives my basses a unity beyond the body that I like. It finishes jet black, and a radiused board actually shows some of the paper layers giving it a very subtle grain pattern. It polishes beutifully with no finish at all.

It is much like machining ebony so it is a bit rough on blades and such. I use the paper/cellulose based material as that is all the stronger I need it to be.

Definately use a mask/respirator - the dust is nasty - but no fumes to speak of.

I like to catch the ends of frets with a small drop of cyano as I set them just 'cuz, but it isn't a requirement if the slots are done right. And the board itself can be glued down onto the neck with titebond.

Don't know much about Garolite, except that Skip at Knuckle Guitar Works uses it for fingerboards (check out his basses, by the way -- really cool stuff). It's probably hard enough for nuts, but might not be. I'd try it just for the sake of experimentation, but the graphite-impregnated and PTFE-filled Garolites at McMaster are expensive. Delrin is a pretty sure bet since it's already being used for nuts (google slip-stone).

I use Garolite for nuts as well and it performs like a champ. I am pondering using it as a bridge material for an EUB. I'll let you know how that goes...

OK, Black Micarta is sometimes used as a substitue for ebony in fretboards. So, let me see if I have this right...

Micarta = paper-based phenolic

Bakelite is also paper-phenolic

Garolite XX is also paper-phenolic

So far, it seems mostly a matter of brand names, but Micarta = Bakelite = GaroliteXX ???

In fact, if you search for Micarta or Bakelite... on McMaster.com.... it'll send you to Garolite!

Right, so far?

Googling... the specific gravity of these 3 seems to come up around 1.35-1.4

And the best Ebonies seem to come up (spec gravity) around 1.2-1.4

Also sound about right?

It is my understanding that Bakelite has far less cellulose in it than Garolite. Bakelite is very prone to shrinkage over time where Garolite is more stable. I have no experience with Micarta.