Dave I

The first mistake you did was buying high grade wood for your first build.

Yes indeed. I killed a very nice piece of 4A quilt on my first project

By the sounds of things, you seem like a fairly sensible person and I should imagine that the woodworking course will work wonders. Common mistakes to me normally come down to impatience.

I am planning on building something else first. Namely, my wife has asked for a new kitchen table. I am planning on that for (re)learning the tools and technique involved with the tools I am going to need to use with my guitar builds and for smoothing over things with my wife when I am preoccupied with building things in the future. I just installed a floating laminate floor in our kitchen, but aside from that and scraping/sanding/repainting my garage door I have not done a woodworking project since high school so this will be a nice refresher course.

Would it be smart to try and use the same wood as I am planning for my first guitar (e.g. Mahogany) or is it safe to just use whatever I want and learn the trade on what is available (I am thinking some hardwood for the table like Maple or Oak, depending on woods the instructor has that look decent)?

-Cheers

The first mistake you did was buying high grade wood for your first build.

I actually got student grade wood. Good tap tone, not highly figured, so it was cheaper. Basically, if I do not screw up too badly, it will sound amazing but not necessarily look as cool as a really drop-dead highly figured piece would.

The second was assuming that it's impossible to mess up the first time. It's not impossible, but very improbable. Just reading a book is not enough. You will, and have to make mistakes, so your second build will be better.

Fair enough. Just want to know the most common pitfalls.

And I am not assuming it is impossible to mess up. I get the impression people generally make mistakes as a rule during their first builds. I am just trying to stack the cards in my favor so that I can avoid the most common mistakes.

I suggest you buy standard grade wood, and familiarized yourself with the tools, wood, and how things works together. The basic idea of the first build, is being able to build without fear of screwing up everything. Mistakes usually happend when you're too confident about what you're doing and you want everything to be perfect.

I am actually taking a 10-week long woodworking class through the local Technical College. I am either going to build the guitar as my first project, or make some project for my wife first as a way of getting better at my woodworking skills (both for familiarity with the wood AND the tools).

-Cheers

I ordered my first batch of wood for my first guitar. Not even going to touch it until AFTER I have read the Benedetto book and made any molds or jigs I need. I am building an ES-335 out of Mahogany back, sides, center block, and neck, and a Spruce top. I asked for the wood with the best tone available and got a very excited Marc at Gilmer Woods to find me some apparently excellent-sounding wood (he was just as excited about this as I was). So I want to make sure I do not mess this up more than my learning curve requires.

Which leads me to this thread. What are the most common mistakes builders make when making their first hollow or semi-hollow body style guitars, flat or archtop? Is it the carving of the top/back, bending of the sides, routing the edges for the binding, etc.?

As an aside, if there is a thread about just this that I missed (I tried the Search but only found the common mistakes for solid-body electric guitars) then feel free to just post a link, or the mods could PM me and delete this thread. Thanks in advance!

-Cheers

Let us know what you decide to build and what woods you get.

~David

I talked to Marc at Gilmer Wood. Super nice guy to me, very helpful. I am going with an ES-335. After talking to me about what I wanted, he recommended Mahogany or Maple sides and back (I went with Mahogany for a warmer sound), Mahogany center block (quartersawn for a bassier, rounder sound), Mahogany neck, and Spruce top. He seemed very excited and enthused about getting me the wood with the best tone and tailored to my personal specs. That got me very eager to do this project and to really do a nice job on it. I should hear back from him about the wood this week or next. Dealing with Marc was a very pleasant experience.

Hopefully the Benedetto book comes this week so I can start reading in greater depth on the process. I need to read the book and I will ask Marc how long I should let the wood sit and acclimate to my environment before using it. That should give me a nice timeline for when I can safely start this project.

Thank you for the encouraging words and advice thus far!

-Cheers

If you buy well dried wood locally it will be closer to being aclimated to your area. If you are in a crunch for time this is the best way to go.

If I buy my woods from Gilmer (or similar dealer), how long should wait before working on the wood to assure it is acclimated to the weather? I am probably going with a Spruce & Mahogany ES-335 style guitar first and then a PRS-doublecut shaped Les Paul chambered solid body next. I can buy some time by building jigs or similar tools I will need, cut out templates, basically do EVERYTHING I would need to do before I finish the guitar. I can even build my wife a kitchen table first. That should smooth over the rest of the guitar-making process a bit.

Basically I'd like to buy the goods and get starter as quickly as safely possible since the availability of tools is dependent on the 10-week woodworking class I am taking this spring (and maybe continuing in the fall as it is offered each semester to the public), but not at the risk of making a piece of junk.

-Cheers

Not exactly sure what the difference between a flat or carved back would be since I haven't built a flat backed guitar like this before, only a carved one. My guess is that since the back is attached to the center block the difference will be slight. A carved back does look great though. I think either would make a nice sounding guitar.

If you are going for a warm tone I suggest mahogany for the neck. The one I made was spruce top, maple back and sides, and mahogany neck and center block and it was very warm and resonant. I would make one like this again except maybe with a slightly smaller body. The 16" wide 335 is too big for me. The last one I made (routed body) was 14-3/8" wide at the lower bout. It was much more comfortable for me.

~David

Thanks for the reply. Well, since I am going to be carving the front, I might as well do the back as well.

So, it looks like I am doing carved front and back, spruce top/back/sides, mahogany neck and center block. I will have to track down an ES-335 to play to see if I want to do the normal width or trim it down a bit. I think I should be fine with a 16" body; I think my acoustic and Agile Cool Cat Prestige only cut into my arm because they are so thick and the thinline ES-style should not do that. Still, I might as well make sure reality matches my theory in my head in this regard.

-Cheers

So it sounds like you are going to do a carved top and a flat back?

What is the difference tonally between a carved back and a flat back? If a carved back will sound better or be more comfortable, I might as well start with a carved front and back.

Thanks for the heads up on the student-grade wood. I just want it to sound really, really nice and warm. As long as it looks nice and understated, I do not need it to be a really high-figured top or back.

-Cheers

Your first post suggests that you want to build something like a 335. So why not build one just like that? You can use a pre-laminated top or carve your own. If you plan it out carefully you will do just fine. I say go for it.

~David

I think I might do just that. I ordered the Benedetto book.

If I DO decide to carve my own top, would I be best using Maple for the back and sides and Spruce for the top, with a Maple block for the middle, or are there other woods that would work better for an ES-335 application (Limba, Mahogany, Rosewood, Cedar, etc.)? Can I just order the wood from some place Gilmer and request a back & side acoustic set, cut to size, and just carve the Spruce wedges??

-Cheers

Dave,

The best place to look for hollowbody construction is the Benedetto archtop book. It goes over everything you need to know about the basic construction of an archtop.

Thanks for the pics and book recommendation. The Benedetto book in on my short list of guitar-building books I will read to prepare for my first builds.

I realize the skill involved for making a solid-body electric are different than those involved in a semi-hollow, acoustic, or true archtop, but is it necessarily better to start with a solid body and move on to semi-hollows and archtops, or is a semi-hollow that is totally chambered out like a semi-hollow (ala. PRS Archtop) and capped just as easy? I am assuming a semi-hollow Lucille-style would be pretty close to acoustic/archtop design territory. Any recommendations on which one to try building first?

-Cheers

Yes, there's going to be a difference. More subtle if the top is solid ... that's where the sound really comes from on a guitar, the B & S just color the sound ... and quite pronounced if the top is laminated too.

After doing some searches, I never found a definitive answer to what that difference was.

A few follow-up questions:

1) What difference does it make between solid-wood top, back, & sides, and replacing the top, or all three with laminate or plywood? Either in a semi-hollow (E-335 type meant for going solely through an amp), hollow acoustic/electric, and a full-blown archtop jazz guitar. I know there are no absolutes, but generally speaking . . .

2) Is one better than the other for a first-time semi-hollow, flattop acoustic, or archtop builder? For instance, do most people start out with prefabricated laminate tops and then work their way to carving solid-wood archtops, or is there a place for both depending on intended use?

3) Is laminate or plywood ever desirable over solidwood? If so, when and why? I know most commercial semi-hollows use laminate tops and backs, even most of the priciest models including ones played by professional musicians like B.B. King, so they must sound at least acceptable, if not preferable.

-Cheers

It is all too common to want specific answers to things that don't have specific answers.

For me, at this point it is trying to decide where to start. Try a solid body electric, chambered solid body, semi-hollow or archtop, guitar kit or hand-carve everything, etc. For all I know, in addition to being cheaper, maybe there are some inherent/unexpected tonal qualities a laminate top (a/o bottom a/o sides) adds to various models of guitars that are desirable to some musicians or styles of music. I would kind of doubt it, but it would be a bit rash to assume anything at my level.

Or you could choose a style and build one and see how it works. Then build another. This is the most intense learning approach and the most rewarding (for me anyway).

All I am doing now is gathering information and opinions on various options, then deciding which style and which specs to choose to build first, then kind of go from there. I do appreciate the information though.

-Cheers

With a good set of pickups it will all come through the amp . . . . It's all about acoustic coupling and if done right (good, clean joinery) the guitar will be very different from a laminated top guitar.

~David

O.k., so is it EVERY preferable to have a laminate top over a carved archtop and solid wood sides/back? If so when? If not, why doesn't Gibson (and others) do carved tops? I would guess the laminates are cheaper or easier but that would just be a guess.

Also, what would the the difference tonally between a traditional archtop semi-hollow/semi-acoustic (steamed/bent solid-wood front/sides/back archtop) vs. solid back/sides w/ laminate semi-hollow archtop, vs. entirely laminated semi-hollow archtop? Or the solid wood blank hollowed out with some sort of top blued on (laminate or otherwise)? Are there any generalities between those four formats? In other words, why would I not just make two huge chambers in a Maple blank, leaving in a block in the middle to deter feedback, and glue/carve a maple top over it all, as opposed to doing a more traditional archtop build? If there is a convenient link/thread explaining this, feel free to just tell me where to look.

-Cheers

A guitar like that out of solid wood is going to have more of a tonal range than the laminated tops variety. It does have to do with the resonant character of a solid piece versus one that is muted and restrained by laminations. Compare the tap tone of a piece of plywood with a piece of solid wood and you get the idea.

How much of that will come through an amp? I play rock and am interested in the ES-335 style of guitar (along with about a dozen others), and am not sure how much of an impact it will make between a laminate top/bottom/sides and the solid wood with carved archtop. Granted it will make a difference, but how much through a rock amp clean or with overdrive (not gobs of high-gain distortion, but the clean-to-nicely broken up stuff)?

Also, are the sides, back, and top of the ES-335 laminate, or just the top?

-Cheers

I am going to be taking a woodworking course (a ten-week course given by a local Tech School) and would like to start my first guitar build. A few (hopefully) quick questions.

1) If it starts in January, will I have enough time to buy some decent tone wood and let it acclimate to the environment it will be stored in by the time class starts?

2) I would like to store the wood/guitar at home and take it to the shop to work on it. Is that o.k., or do I have to leave it at the shop? I am wondering if changes in humidity between my home, the shop, and the 1/3 hour trip to get there, will screw it up, and I really do not want to leave my guitar-in-progress at a high school shop class.

If nothing else, I can just use the class as a way to learn to use the tools, build my wife a book case or something, maybe a file cabinet, and meanwhile work on acquiring the proper tools at home while my wood ages. But just thought I would ask.

-Cheers

Hey very nice job Myka. It looks awesome.

I made my 335 clone by cutting the body out of 1-3'4" Mahogany and then cutting out the inside leaving (25mm) 1" around the outside rim and a center block section. Then I shaped some profile blocks for front and back and glued them on.

So how much harder than a solid-body, and harder than a traditional arch-top hollow-body, is that (if at all)?

-Cheers

Hey All,

I tried a search on ES-335's but did not have the best of luck. That being said, if there is a link that will answer all of my problems, please feel free to just give me the URL. Anyway . . .

I am planning my first builds, and there are ostensibly three or four guitars I would like to build. Namely, a solid body electric, a tone-chambered electric (solid body just chambered/routed for weight and sound), and a full-blown semi-hollow. My experience right now is non-existent. I am planning to buy and read Hiscock's book on electrics, but my impression is that will not help me with an acoustic-style which an honest-to-goodness ES335 clone is going to to be.

Anyway, my question is, what is my best bet for a novice/rookie-built set-neck ES-335 clone semi-hollow? A kit? Parts from http://acme-archtops.com/ ? Wait until I have done a few solid-body builds, read a few books on acoustic guitar building, and have all of the tools I will need before I even consider a semi-hollow body guitar?

Thanks in advance.

-Cheers

4) Chambered bodies are more lively, more complex, more resonant, feed back more easily (without F-holes, it's very controllable, even at high volume), and I haven't found the sustain suffers in a significant (ie, affects the overal sound negatively) way. Bigger chambers = more effect, smaller chambers reduce weight and give it a slightly more lively feel, but not nearly as significantly.

Do you place the chambers kind of randomly along (but not across) where the strings and bridge go, or is there any science or rules-of-thumb to that?

5) I almost always build chambered bodies. I like the liveliness, and it's perfectly well suited to, well, anything but high-gain metal as far as I'm concerned, where I prefer something a little less complex from the get-go. A large part of this is also my choice of scale length, pickups, pickups, s'more pickups, woods (maple over mahogany), and so on. However, keep in mind this is my personal 'truth', and works for the way I build my instruments, and I end up with a sounds I like. It's not a solid Les Paul sort of 'thing', it's a little more acoustic-y. Start building and see what YOU like.

Do you use Maple over Mahogany as in you prefer to use Maple INSTEAD of Mahogany, or you use Mahogany with Maple on top a/o bottom?

Finally, do you find there is any truth that the smaller/shorter chambers increase treble response while the longer/larger chambers increase the bass response?

-Cheers

Sorry, not getting drawn in.

Peace, and contentment be with you friend.

That is too bad. I hope you change your mind; I'm just trying to gather opinions, particularly from people who have hands-on comparative experience in this, not trying to stir anything up. That being said, I respect your decision.

-Cheers

<Drak, kicking back, watches the smoke curl up from his Camel, and sits back to enjoy the show>

Hey Drak, if you care to do more than sit this one out . . . I know you mentioned in previous threads (I just did a nice search on chambered guitars and read a bit) that you have made a bunch of them and could not really say definitively what difference the chambering made, but I am going to assume you like them o.k., or at the very least have worthwhile experience with them, so . . .

For those of you who have actually built solid and chambered guitars, including but certainly not limited to Drak, particularly if you have done two guitars of the same materials and designs with one chambered and one left entact, a few questions:

1) Are there any concrete differences in the the sound and usability between the two? Did one become muddier with more gain, or was the tone more articulate, bassier/treblier/fuller/thinner/etc. than the other? I do not think one adds or subtracts tone (I do not think of tone as a quantity), but what qualities do you find it changes?

2) Is one going to be better suited to certain style(s) than the other?

3) Do you tend to gravitate toward a chambered over a solid-bodied, or vice-versa? If so, one way or the other, why?

4) Are there any negatives or quirks about chambered guitar bodies you care to share with rookies like myself?

I actually DID search through the archives. Still, if there are any good threads that already say what you are planning to type, just the URL is fine. I may have missed some good replies buried in threads not specifically about chambering, or some good threads in general may have flown under my radar.

-Cheers

There is a saying: 'keep your feet on the ground, but keep reaching for the stars'.

I read a lot in your post about reaching for the stars, but not so much about keeping your feet on the ground.

Fair enough. But I DID kill the idea of a rosewood neck.

Concentrate more on your foundation, on keeping your feet on the ground, on the basics first.

Yeah, I see what you are saying. But does that mean that I should stick with a bolt-on Tele-shape for my first build, or do I reach and go for a tone-chambered mahogany or Limba-bodied guitar, with Mahogany or Limba set-neck, and a figured flamed or quilted Maple, Mahogany, or Limba top hand-carved, all based on Gibson Les Paul dimensions with a PRS-inspired double-cut design?

-Cheers

I know you are just joking, but if I had my choice (and believe me I do) I would reach for rosewood dead last 99% of the time. It would have to be an odd project theat I would want a RW neck for. Actually the neck materials of choice for me are actually some of the cheapest(maple, sapele,Cherry), to med. low end woods(Genuine Mahog, Black Limba). Just good cuts that are nice and dry.

Yeah, it was meant in jest. I like plain old Mahogany just fine.

Quick question (I hope this is an appropriate thread to ask) . . . What would be your choice (Rich or anbody's) between Mahogany or Limba in a chambered body or semi-hollow vs. a pure solid-body? Does it change your opinion as to which one works/sounds better, and if so, why?

-Cheers

This is only partially related, but does anybody have a side-by-side comparison of the dimensions of a PRS vs. a Les Paul Standard? I know the cutouts would be different, but something comparing thickness (overall, mahogany, and maple cap), width at its widest, length of body, or any other pertinent dimensions? I would try a search, but I really cannot search for anything with just three letters so a "PRS" search is out of the question.

-Cheers

Frankly, I'm struggling to figure out why you care how far - exactly - the neck tenon goes in (I do mine more or less full length of the neck pickup cavity or deeper). A little more is better than a little less here, IMO.

Two reasons:

1) Newbie curiosity.

2) Wondering how far (roughly, I do not care exactly) double-cut set-neck guitars extend the necks into the body as opposed to double cuts.

I am not worrying about it; I would presume a lot of this is covered in the Hiscock book, and I am probably getting that for X-mas which will coincide with my daughter turning approximately six-months old and allegedly easier to take care of. Hopefully at that time I will have more time to read and learn about this stuff.

So it was just curiosity. That and I have read some guitars have the neck all the way down to the bridge. Not sure what difference that makes to the sound of the guitar, if any, but it was kind of interesting.

-Cheers

I am in process of building my first guitar, a PRS Mcarty. I have been trying to find if this info has been posted anywhere else already but I can't find it! I need the specs for the following items:

Body thickness =

Depth of pick up pockets =

Depth of electronics pockets =

Model of stop tail bridge that PRS uses =

So if anybody could help with these I would greatly appreciate it!

Out of curiousity, anybody have the rest of the dimensions for the body? I believe the McCarty is thicker than a standard PRS (the thickness dimension was addressed in the previous post), but how about the:

Body Width at widest

Body Width at narrowest

Body Length

How Deep the Neck goes into the body (just curious more than anything)

This is mainly just to compare dimensions with my future projects, not to clone them, just for fun.

-Cheers

Use woods that are commonly used. There are good reasons, beyond the "tonal" properties of these woods such as availability, cost, workability, stability. Mahogany is a great wood in all respects, Alder is a great body wood, Hard Maple is a great neck wood (although a tad harder on tools), Cherry is also a great wood all the way around, Limba is a joy to work with and wonderful all the way around, there are more examples but try to stick with woods like these.

I envision myself working with the warmer woods. So Mahogany, Limba, maybe Alder or Swamp Ash. I could see using maple if I go for a nice looking cap or to make the guitar have a bit more clarity, but otherwise Mahogany a/o Limba seem more like what I would generally look for, tonally speaking.

Woods to avoid for a first neck- Rosewoods(harder to carve and work with), ebonies(same as rosewoods), super high figure as they are more prone to tear out).

Good to know. I got the idea of a Rosewood neck due to the PRS Rosewood 513. It looks intriguing. But I can slum it with Mahogany or Limba.

As far as your woodworking class. I am not sure if your instructor is an instrument maker, if not you will need to keep in mind woodworking is only part of instrument building and methods and level of accuracy will be a little forien to most woodworkers. Read your book very well, and try to get a solid understanding of the "instrument" side of your project.

Thanks for the advice! I do not think the instructor in either case is an instrument maker. I am pretty **** and plan on reading up a lot before I actually try to build anything so I will be very meticulous. Not that it will keep me from making mistakes and learning from them, like everybody else, but I will be going in at least moderately informed.

-Cheers