mu_sound Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Hi everyone, I just wanted to start off a thread and introduce myself. I'm Ed from Pasadena, CA. Ive been working on my first guitar build for some time now. I havent actually cut any wood yet, but I've been doing a whole lot of searching on the net and in books & handmade music on the DIY channel. So far this is the best resource I have found yet. Thanks to Brian for keeping it up. I have always wanted a PRS Santana model, but since I cant break free of >$10000, I decided to build one. If that turns out ok, I'll plan on doing a semi-hollow body afterward. I've found a couple of good DWG & DXF files for a Les Paul double cutaway (which is the same shape as a Santana model PRS) I have purchased some of the hardware necessary to build the guitar: 1.8" hot rod truss rod, Super Jumbo frets wire, fret saw blade, fret template, abalone shells from the beach, and a bridge/tailpiece. Its the bridge tailpiece I am regretting right now. I wanted a stop tail that could be fully intonated, I found that TonePros make a wraparound bridge/tailpiece, that can be intonated, however in retrospect, I think I should have decided to use a TOM with the strings loading from the back of the guitar. It would have been cheaper and acoustically preferrable. Darn! I hate making bad decisions at 2am while online shopping! Anyway, I am still doing some "bookwork" before I start cutting wood. If anybody has any helpful resources that I might find useful, feel free to pass them along. Thanks -Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asm Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 are you using any kind of template? also, what access to any sort of power tools do you have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitar_ed Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 Hi Ed, So long as you have actually cut the wood to shape for that specific tail piece, you can still change your mind. And welcome to the show. Please take lots of pix. Guitar Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mu_sound Posted December 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 As far as a template, i toyed for several weeks with generating my own using Photoshop and Solidworks (a seriously expensive 3DCAD program) However, since guitars arent exactly square, it was a bit diffucult getting the lofts sweeps and tapers to work right on the computer. Ihad a whole lot of fun rotating the guitar model like mad, but In the end I found some DXF/DWG files on a website recommended on a different thread that should work just fine. Unfortunately the 25" scale neck drawing had some bugs in it, so I could not download it. So in a sense I will use a template (paper) pasted on top of the wood as I bandsaw it. It would be nice to have a template to aid in the carving of the top, but thats too much to ask for I think. As for tools. I helped my buddy purchase a JET (or Delta) 14" bandsaw. He already owns a table saw & router. I have some of my own tools, but most of the seroius horsepower is in his shop. As for the bridge piece, I think I'll go with what I purchased, but I got mad at myself for forgetttign that I originally wanted to load the strings through the bottom of the guitar. Hey a question for the stoptail/bridge combo....Should mounting stud for the low E side be set back further (making the string much longer than the high E side). If so, how much. is there a good rule of thumb. I'm planning on using .011" gauge strings and I want to make sure I can get good intonation range and low action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackyB Posted December 20, 2004 Report Share Posted December 20, 2004 (edited) As far as a template, i toyed for several weeks with generating my own using Photoshop and Solidworks (a seriously expensive 3DCAD program) However, since guitars arent exactly square, it was a bit diffucult getting the lofts sweeps and tapers to work right on the computer. Ihad a whole lot of fun rotating the guitar model like mad, but In the end I found some DXF/DWG files on a website recommended on a different thread that should work just fine. Unfortunately the 25" scale neck drawing had some bugs in it, so I could not download it. So in a sense I will use a template (paper) pasted on top of the wood as I bandsaw it. It would be nice to have a template to aid in the carving of the top, but thats too much to ask for I think. As for tools. I helped my buddy purchase a JET (or Delta) 14" bandsaw. He already owns a table saw & router. I have some of my own tools, but most of the seroius horsepower is in his shop. As for the bridge piece, I think I'll go with what I purchased, but I got mad at myself for forgetttign that I originally wanted to load the strings through the bottom of the guitar. Hey a question for the stoptail/bridge combo....Should mounting stud for the low E side be set back further (making the string much longer than the high E side). If so, how much. is there a good rule of thumb. I'm planning on using .011" gauge strings and I want to make sure I can get good intonation range and low action. Just a quick recommendation, paste your paper onto a thin sheet (1/2") of plywood and make yourself a template. You will hate yourself forever if you just tape the paper onto your wood blank and accidentaly lose control the bandsaw and cut into the body shape. I used to have a great home-made tutorial for making a figured top, let me see if I can't find the link again. I found it: http://galileo.spaceports.com/~fishbake/lpc/cvr/cover.htm Should be pretty useful. You can skip to "Shaping the Body" to see how he did the figured top. Edited December 20, 2004 by JackyB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idrum4food Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Ed, The best way I've found for shaping the top of a solid body is to buy a Work Mate bench at Home Depot. This bench comes with holes predrilled in the work surface of the bench where you can place the plastic clamps at different locations to hold the body in place and clamp it using the Work Mate clamping mechanism. The plastic thingys only come up on the body about 3/4" giving you enough room for the next step. After the body is clamped in place use a LARGE wood rasp to shape the top of the body. The wood rasp I use is about 1.5' long and has a rough and not so rough side to it. Looks like a big flat bastard file only for wood. Found it at a very old hardware store. Takes about two to three hours to rough shape the body and another couple of hours to sand. I've tried the chisel and hammer method but didn't have the control that I do with the wood rasp. This may have already been discussed as I'm also new to the site. Just my way of doing it but in the end I'd say whatever you feel most confident with, without messin up yer chunk a wood. Good Luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mu_sound Posted December 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 How about some more advice.... Last April I bought a large piece of 8/4 mahogany (it was about 15" wide an 3 or 4 feet long). Over time (and perhaps due to poor storage conditions) it warped, it developed a twist to it diagonally. I paid too damn much to surface sand the board, but it would untwist as it went through the machine and make the effort futile. I ended up buying a nice straight piece of 6/4 mahogany (also 15" wide and about 4ft long), along with a beautifully figured (kinda flamed kinda quilted) 4/4 maple. I am making a double-cut set neck guitar, and I would like to make it with a one piece neck. However, I have invested quite a bit on wood already, so the thought of going out and buying a true 4" x 4" mahagony slab to get 2 necks out of is making me reconsider a one piece neck. I could laminate some of the twisted mahagony and get a two piece neck or laminate a 3rd piece of wood in there like some walnut I have lying around. I think it would be wasteful to use the figured maple for a skunk stripe, although it would look beautiful. I have not bought the fretwood board yet, but I'm thinking rosewood. Originally of course I asuumed I would built a materpiece worthy of the Smithsonian on my first try. But since then I figured I am bound to bow to the mighty Murphy sooner or later, so perhaps a two (or more) piece neck might work for Mark I. Any thoughts? Second, Am I asking for trouble using wood that has already warped on the neck of all places? Or is it safe to assume its done warping and I'll carve off most of what is not neck shaped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer7440 Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 How twisted is the board? Could you twist it back by stickering it? If you make a scarf joint for the headstock and glue a flat piece of wood at the other end to make up the heal thickness, you can laminate a neck out a piece of 3/4" thick x 4" wide. ( you could go narrower than 4" wide depending on your headstock shape and whether or not you want to glue on "ears to get the headstock width) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotrock Posted December 21, 2004 Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 Heres another tip: MAKE A TEMPLATE - You will only get it sort of symetrical on the bandsaw. What you really need to do is make a template and cut the body down (after bandsawng) with a flush cutting bit. As you're doing a double cutaway (like I am) you only need to make 1/2 of a template and flip it over around the centre line and you will have a perfectly symetrical axe. Good luck dude Kaj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mu_sound Posted December 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 21, 2004 How twisted is the board? Could you twist it back by stickering it? If you make a scarf joint for the headstock and glue a flat piece of wood at the other end to make up the heal thickness, you can laminate a neck out a piece of 3/4" thick x 4" wide. ( you could go narrower than 4" wide depending on your headstock shape and whether or not you want to glue on "ears to get the headstock width) Its twisted so that a level sitting accros the diagonal has easily a 3/4" gap (relief for us guitar folk). Now could you explain stickering? The design you refer to is what I was considering making, but It bugs me that the heel has to be two piece. I need about 2.5" x 1.5" for what is visible on a custom 24 at the heel . I hope I dont get in trouble for this, but here is the design I am modeling, without the tremolo and with the swithching on the custom 24 instead of Carlos' funky mini switches. Whoops...you cant post images unless they are already in a website. I'll have to figure that one out later. I gotta get to work. But in short it is ever so slightly assymetrical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mu_sound Posted December 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 So finally I get to post some pictures: here is the figured maple: http://webpages.charter.net/hazysunshine/w...ed/DSC04808.JPG thats the flamey side this one is the more quilted side: http://webpages.charter.net/hazysunshine/w...ed/DSC04804.JPG And here is my tracing project: I hope I dont get in trouble with any lawyers http://webpages.charter.net/hazysunshine/s...ntanaiibody.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asm Posted December 22, 2004 Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 NICE drawing man! where did you find those dimensions? guitar center? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mu_sound Posted December 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 No actually the giutar center guys quicky took the axe away from me when I came at it with my clipboard, a 24" scale and deep throat calipers :-) But seriously, I did it myself with a JPG off the PRS site. I drew a 12.5 " rectangle and then expanded the JPG to fit the nut to the 12th fret within that rectangle. Any round off error stems from there. It bothered me that the nut to high E saddle height was less than 25", but the lenght of the low E is much more than 25". I guess thats so you have room to intonate in either direction. Is that true or am I just plain fooling myself? I mostly wanted to get rough dimension that I could work from & know how much lumber to buy. How much I'd need for a neck etc. The really cool thing is that while it is imported into my CAD progarm (since its 3D) I can take my model and spin it around (looking at it from different angles) and the JPG that I am tracing spins with it...its quite a trip :-) My parts are on their way, I'm dying to get started, but I have to get my darm plotter working so I can have something to make a template with. Damn hi tech toys! By the way I think I am leaning toward making the neck from a mahagony walnut mahagony laminate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer7440 Posted December 22, 2004 Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 Stickering is when you store your lumber in stacks, with spacers between each board. The spacers, obviously should be the same thickness, and spaced about every 18" or so. On the very top you might add some weight. This keeps pressure on the boards in the stack and as they dry they stay straight. Some times if you get a board with a twist, if you sticker it you can make it go back straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mu_sound Posted December 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 Stickering is now my preferred method for storage (I just didnt know thats what it was called). The pictures of the lumber you see above are stacked just as you described, so if it helps, I should see the results of that when I take the stack down later. Heres the full stack.: from the bootm, figureb maple, straight mahogany, double walnut layer, and the twisted mahagony. Accodring to what you say I should have more supports and probably have the twisted board on the bottom so it bears more weight. Honestly though, I wopuld be afraid that it would twist back. I've been adised to build a sled so I can take off the high corners with a dado cutter and then the rest can be surfaced flat. I think I may just cul some long sections (like for a neck) and see just how bad the twist is, and if it can be hand planed flat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jer7440 Posted December 22, 2004 Report Share Posted December 22, 2004 The only thing I would suggest is maybe 1 more spacer on each row just to shorten the span in the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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