Anyone Using Cakewalk?

[daveq]

I'm looking for someone who may have some experience using cakewalk home studio. I have a pretty simple question concerning MIDI tracks (at least I think it's simple). I can't get any MIDI tracks to produce sound at all. Only audio tracks seem to work. I've checked control panel and done some basic checking around (including the help - which isn't the best) - still nothing.

Any hints?

[Gorecki]

Can't help ya directly Dave but it does sound like somethings not setup quite right. Are you sure what you're trying to 'trigger' is setup to get the midi channel(s) you're sending to it.

I think D~S is a Sonar user (home's big sister) will show up to be of more assistance.

[daveq]

Thanks. Maybe you can help me with this then:?

Do I need to send all MIDI tracks to a device that can synth the sounds? I thought that Home Studio itself could do that but the more I poke around, the more I'm thinking that I have to set the track up to send it's output to another piece of software (or external device) in order to get anything out of it.

Does this sound right to you? I'm sooooo confused!

EDIT::

OK, maybe I'm still doing this wrong but here's what I've done:

I inserted a hoocher called Edirol. I set the output of the MIDI track to point to the Edirol jobber and then it starts working! I wonder why it was so damn difficult to get to this point? Am I even doing this correctly?

[ibreakemineedtobuildem]

Maybe try the cakewalk forums.I bet some tech could help you.

Unless you're using a cracked version

[daveq]

I was hoping to find someone here who uses it before going much further. I did search their forum but nothing matched with what I tried searching under.

Anyway, it looks like I've got something going whether it be right or wrong.

If anyone here is a cakewalk expert, I'd love to have a chat with you some time.

[Dugz Ink]

I started with Home Studio, and upgraded to Sonar.

Neither one of those will produce audio from MIDI commands.

You can use a soft-synth (software synthesizer) like Microsoft's GS Wavetable Synth to create sounds, but that's all they are... sounds. They barely mimic real instruments. And they have hideous latency (delay); you can hit a key on a keyboard, and it can take up to 1/4 of a second before you hear the soft-synth through your computer. (If you can play in spite of a 1/4 second delay, you're better than I will ever be!)

If you have a Sound Blaster or Audigy sound card, they have on-board soundfonts, but they are there for game-players; if you use them, your songs will sound like... well... video game music. However, latency is less of an issue.

I use an inexpensive "plug-in" program called SFZ+, which was put together by a guy who calls his comapny rgc:Audio. (We've exchanged a few emails since my purchase; I think he's in Argentina, and he's a really nice guy.) He has a freeware plug-in, called SFZ, but that is only available as a VST plug-in. Some versions of Home Studio, Sonar, etc. only work with DXi plug-ins, and all of the Cakewalk products work best with DXi plug-ins, so I spent the money (about $65) to purchase SFZ+, which is available as a DXi.

I use SFZ+ to trigger soundfonts, which are files assembled from multiple samples of instruments. For instance, I have a soundfont of a 17' Steinway concert grand piano. The man who restored that piano sampled every note, three times, and assembled them into one 336Mb soundfont file. When I use it to produce my song demos, I am literally using the actual sound of his Steinway to create my piano parts.

I'm using the M-Audio "Audiophile 2496" PCI sound card on a 2.7gHz Athlon, and latency is too minimal to notice... at any sampling rate. Here's a link to an R&B song demo that I produced; eveything you hear is a soundfont, except the vocals (duh) and the "spanish guitar" that is in the bridge.

You don't have to use SFZ+; there are other programs, like Kontact, Kompact, and V-Sampler... but they cost a lot more money, and I'm a cheap SOB.

Here's how to use it. (The same method will work for any similar plug-in.)

1) Open (or create) your MIDI project in Home Studio.

2) Insert (create) 1 audio track.

3) On the audio track, right click in the "FX" bar.

4) Roll your mouse over "DX Instruments" then select the plug-in. (I select "rgc:audio sfz+".)

5) Go back to your MIDI tracks and set the "Patch" bar to "None."

6) Click on the "Output" bar of each MIDI track and select the plug-in. (I select "rgc:audio sfz+".)

7) Go back to your audio track, double-click on the plug-in (I double-click on "rgc:audio sfz+") to open the plug-in GUI.

8) Assign a soundfont to each MIDI channel. For instance, if my piano is on MIDI Channel 1, then I open my Steinway concert grand soundfont and assign that to Channel 1... and so on.

9) Press the "play" button.

If you want to record those tracks, I recommend inserting another audio track, and recording your MIDI triggered tracks (in real-time) to that track, then exporting the audio track as a WAV, MP3, WMA, or Real Audiuo file... whatever works for you.

Personally, I record each individual MIDI track as a seperate audio track, then apply the audio effects (reverb, EQ, etc.) to those audio tracks before mixing them down to my final audio file.

NOTE: If you need free soundfonts, go to Soundfonts.it and Hammer Sound. (The soundfonts on Hammer Sound are reviewed and rated by the users.) If you want the Steinway soundfont that I use, go to Sound Creations to download it. For more sites, stop by Synth Zone.

If you haven't figured it out, let me say that I've been doing this for a while... and I spend a lot of evenings on Studio Central advising people and answering home recording questions. If you have more questions, feel free to post them here, or cruise by SC. (PG is a great forum, so I don't want to pull people away this forum, but SC is dedicated to recording issues... so you may want to frequent both forums.)

D~s

[Gorecki]

Thanks for taking the ball Dugz...I wasn't sure if his issue was midi in general or just the package.

[daveq]

Thank you for all the info. I think I understand it now. I ended up using something called Edirol. It came with home studio but I never knew what the heck it was supposed to be used for. It has several drum sets to choose from but since I'm not into the electro-drum sound too much, I just pick the standard set.

I'll check into the products that you mentioned also. I don't know if you will have any experience with this but I wanted to ask if you know anything about Cakewalk's Drumatic? Drumatic

It looks promising but it could just be a collection of crap. Basically, what I'm after is some hard rock/metal drum tracks.

BTW, if it matters, I have a E-MU 1212 card (actually two cards connected together).

Thanks again for the help!

[Dugz Ink]

I've never used any drum-loop software; it still seems too limiting.

I usually program the beats by hand, then play them back using one of my soundfonts. (I've had some good results and compliments when I use a "Tama Rock Star" soundfont.)

My best friend uses Redrum and Sampletank (plug-ins), and he can do such a good job with those that he almost never uses his Roland R-8 drum machine anymore.

Of course, none of the software stuff can come close to sounding like a really good drummer... but software won't drink your beer or smell strange.

D~s

[daveq]

There's no doubt that it is limiting but since I'm just gettting started using recording software, I just want something to play along with for a while. I don't want to spend hours generating a drum track by hand (not to mention that fact that it would probably sound very lame since I'm not a drummer).

So, people still use drum machines for this stuff then? For some reason, I thought drum machines were mostly obsoleted by PC software? Are the sounds from them better than what a PC can generate?

I'll check out those .sf2 files and SFZ+. Thanks for the help!

[Dugz Ink]

Are the sounds from them better than what a PC can generate?

It depends on which drum machine and which software. Some drum machines have the latest samples, and the pads allow for more realistic (read: human) programming, so they can sound better. But some of the new software offers enough options that you can make each tom and cymbal sound exactly the way you want. What my friend likes about the R-8 is that it also has MIDI outs, so he can use it for programming the beats, and send the MIDI signal to the sampler plug-in... which is running inside of Pro Tools.

As for programming beats into Home Studio, just start with the basics. I always start with 2 bars, and add in beats using the Notation View. Then I copy the beats that are in the first two bars, paste them into bars 3 & 4, and tweak some of the beats in bar 4. Then I copy the beats in bars 1-4, paste them into bars 5-8, and tweak some of the beats in bar 8. If you're not a drummer (I'm not), that's the best way to put down some beats.

D~s