Naive Question

[olddog]

I retired a few years back with the dream of working at this craft until I get planted. What other way do you get to work with wood and then plug it in and enjoy it's sound? I guess I never realized how tough it is to sell them. My question is; is any money to be made making hand crafted axes? I'm not looking to be PRS, just looking to pay for materials and some beer money.

I'm just looking for some insight of more experienced people.

I've built 18 axes in the last year, I'm convinced they outplay most of the stock stuff I've played, but I've damn near given most of them away just to get them played and seen. I guess right now I'm just searching for a reason to keep at it. Any personal insight would be appreciated. Thanks.

[thedoctor]

IMHO, there is more profit and less trouble involved in repairing the stuff people have already spent too much money for. Unless you have a real deep niche you fill or are a true guitar-building artist(bunch of em on this forum) you aren't gonna make even beer money making cool axes with good components. Not even Keystone Light.

[unclej]

unfortunately the doctor might be close to right. i've been fortunate to sell all of the guitars that i've made with the exception of my last one which hangs for sale in my store and was just completed a couple of months ago. the third guitar that i ever made hung here until two weeks ago when the right guy came in and thought it was the perfect guitar. point being that it takes patience.

i haven't gotten around to putting up a website yet but my partner here at the store is making a very nice living making custom short scale basses and selling them on his site. but like the doc said, he's filling a specific need and was fortunate enough to be the new product of the month in bass player magazine when he first started.

but don't give up on it if you love it that much. take a couple of your guitars around to area music stores and see if they'd take them on consignment. set up a website if you haven't already. look for some open mics in your area and take one to let some of the musicians play. i've personally sold two that way. just keep at it and have fun with it and the reputation and the money should follow.

good luck!

[olddog]

Thanks for the insight. Deep down I kind of knew what you told me, but I guess I had to hear it. Thanks for the dose of reality.

Keystone Light? How come you can afford the good stuff? I was talking about Milwaukee Best Light, 8. 50 a case, plus a rebate coupon.

In light of your advice, I've formed a new plan, spend the next year building the best ax the world has ever known: for myself. THEN, learn how to brew beer, it sure seems like more people buy beer than my axes.

Thanks again, nice chatting with you guys.

[mledbetter]

I retired a few years back with the dream of working at this craft until I get planted. What other way do you get to work with wood and then plug it in and enjoy it's sound? I guess I never realized how tough it is to sell them. My question is; is any money to be made making hand crafted axes? I'm not looking to be PRS, just looking to pay for materials and some beer money.

    I'm just looking for some insight of more experienced people.

    I've built 18 axes in the last year, I'm convinced they outplay most of the stock stuff I've played, but I've damn near given most of them away just to get them played and seen. I guess right now I'm just searching for a reason to keep at it. Any personal insight would be appreciated. Thanks.

←

Before getting too discouraged you have to check and see what all you have tried first. Have you advertised? Who have you sold (given) guitars to so far? I know some folks locally who made 3-4 acoustics, went to nashville and shopped them around the studios and came home with not only orders, but a strong word of mouth advantage. High end guitars are purchased by older guitar lovers who have means (or younger ones even who have means) or working musicians who rely on their instrument. Pros and superstars don't buy guitars, they are given them in exchange for their signatures.

What kind of instruments are you making? Join NAMM, Go to guitar shows. Visit some studios. Work with your local music store and host a contest or some kind of incentive for folks to testdrive your instruments (giving away a gift cert to that music store ensures you a cooperative music store) Be creative and market yourself. You can't compete with the big companies getting throngs of teens and young players.. you have to go after the seasoned players that know good stuff from a big name.

[orgmorg]

Wow, where do you get the Beast for that price? Best I can do is PBR @ 6 bucks a twelve. Sounds like you are ahead of the game already.

Building guitars vs. brewing beer? I fail to see how the two are mutually exclusive. I somehow doubt this will be your last axe, you seem like you are enjoying it.

I can't remember where in heck I heard it, but someone once said: " Do what you love, the money will follow. "

And please, stick around. Tell us a bit about your guitars.

[Uncle Os]

OD...

I'm in the same boat. I've built a buttload of instruments and more or less given them away. After attending this past winter NAMM with a friend's 'buyer' pass on, I saw the prices folks with a 'real' business pay for stuff... I've decided to go legit. Got the fictitious business name, business license, state tax number, wholesale/retail license, etc, etc... I'm throwin' my hat in the ring just like you are. I'm not quittin' my day job though. It's a side thing.

Good luck to ya, Senor!

Cor

P.S. Someone once told me (it might have even been on this board) "If you're thinking about building guitars for a living... Don't."

[orgmorg]

P.S.  Someone once told me (it might have even been on this board) "If you're thinking about building guitars for a living...  Don't."

←

Ya, thinking just gets in the way.

Edited March 6, 2005 by orgmorg

[olddog]

It almost sounds like the jokes I heard last night on public radio last night; ( They substituted musician for guitar builder.)

What do you call the guitar builder at your table? Your waiter.

What do you call the guitar builder at your door? The pizza guy.

I will stick around and talk axes though, this is pretty cool.

I told you I was naive, when I put together the first ax, ( a mighty mite tele ), I thought I was the first guy on the planet with this idea. I had no idea a site like this existed. One of the guitars I thought up later was a double cut Les Paul neck-through, with a releived neck area for easier access to the top frets. Then someone told me about some Paul Reed Smith guy who came up with it first. Darn it! Now I will look at the guitars on this site before I make another "original".

[thedoctor]

Olddog, when I am technically able I will post a picture of my 1967 Sony Walkman. And my Studio bass. If you sit on a good idea long enough you will get bypassed by people who are "GETTING IT DONE".

[olddog]

Hey, doc, enough already. I get the picture. I appeciate the input. I'll bet that 67 Walkman would be priceless.

I envy the guys who are getting it done. They're my heroes.

[Digideus]

you could do worse than sell them on the web. The internet makes the world a smaller place. I would never have dreamed of ordering stuff from the states a couple of years ago, now its common practice!

You could start selling them on Ebay. They have a ready made audience and a ready made way to market your product! Plus with paypal, you have a method of getting money from all over the world!

My advice is to try it. If youve got a couple of axes to shift, it cant hurt

[Monty Cadenhead]

Hey, a chance to give advice! I de-lurk.

Olddog, you've got a marketing problem, and you need to look at it as such.

A few thoughts:

Most luthiers build guitars for 8-10 years before they start to make enough money to need a bank account. There are exceptions (Mario Proux comes to mind. He took his first guitar to a bluegrass festival, sold it, and took orders for more).

There are about 30 times as many people wanting to make a living building guitars today than there were 10 years ago (my estimate, based on attendence at symposia and conventions). They all have a head start on you.

People buy guitars they can hear and play, so you will make most of your sales to people who actually put their hands on the thing. Consign them to a store, go to open mikes (as unclej suggested) and festivals, or loan them to people who play out every night. Every city of any size has at least 2-4 guys that get paid to play guitar in a recording studio every day. Find those guys (as mledbetter suggested) and loan them a guitar, because those guys know EVERYBODY. Tell him if he sends you 5 buyers, he gets a free one to keep. Get them into the hands of potential buyers.

Create a buzz. Find your local arts charity, donate a guitar for their raffle. Donate a guitar to the high school or prison. Call the newspaper and take them with you to take pictures and do the "Local man donates custom made guitar to needy" thing. Then, write it off.

Make what people buy. People buy Strats, Teles and Les Pauls, because that's what the guys on TV play. People who want something other than that buy a PRS, a Rick or a 335, again, because that's what the guys on TV play. Trying to sell anything that's doesn't look like one of the above is a recipe for frustration (again, there are exceptions, but we only need one Rick Turner).

If the guitar you loaned or consigned hasn't sold in 3 months, take it back, re-finish it, and send it out somewhere else. Be prepared to lose a couple ("Honest, I came home and she'd left a note and she's gone to TIBET, and she took your guitar WITH her, man!") without worrying about it or making a fuss. Get a police report, and you can write it off.

Sell service.

He wants a Strat with a 24 3/4" scale? Fix him up.

He doesn't know if he wants Fralins or Lollars? Here's one of each, play for an hour, and let me know. Changed his mind next month? Swap 'em out and charge him again.

He wants a chambered Tele with Firebird pickups? Would you like that in gold or nickle?

Look at the Warmoth catalog, and provide those choices.

Study and learn. Become an expert, but an unpretentious one. Never pretend to know anything you don't. Say, "I don't know, but I'll find out and get back to you," a lot.

Charge lots of money, and be worth it. People who are price sensitive don't buy custom made guitars (or deserve them).

If you get to the point you're working a 40 hour week building guitars that sell, you'll also be spending another 5 hours a week (at least) on the phone. Figure that into your pricing.

Take trades. About 1970, a guy in Atlanta named Jay Rhyne traded a guitar he'd built for an original Gibson Flying V.

Use your real human name on the guitars. People are comfortable having a relationship with a person, not a Thunderblaster, a WarpDrive, or a Twang-O-Tron. If your real human name is something like "Epaminondas Stathopoulo", you might want to change it. Something simple and elegant. I suggest "Lloyd Loar".

Use your real human name on the guitar boards and answer questions intelligently. Be useful. Spell well, and punctuate properly. Keep it up, even after it gets boring, because it's priceless advertising. Like all advertising, it takes years for it to have a real effect but someday, years from now, you'll meet a guy in a bar who knows who you are, and you'll walk all the way home without your feet touching the ground, once.

Digideus suggested Ebay, but a couple of years ago I saw a guy sell 4 archtops on Ebay with no reserve for about 80% of what the materials cost him. He's gone now. Ebay is for bottom-feeders (like me).

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out.

Monty

[mledbetter]

Excellent advise. You have to work hard to get your product in the hands of people that will not only play it, but tell all their friends about it. To me, the professional studio musician is at the top of the list. Then the local player-outers. Then your regular music store patrons.

If you have people that have bought your guitars, go to Harmony Central, have them fill out reviews that will get your name added to the list.

[olddog]

Hey. Thanks for the honest advice. Man, I hope it doesn't take me 10 years, I may not have that much time left. I did try a few of the things you suggested, I donated a guitar to a public tv aution, and I gave one to my instructor. He's in 3 bands, and does sound for a bunch more. I did try the e-bay thing with one ax, and what you said about that makes perfect sense. I wondered myself if I would buy a guitar without plugging it in and trying it. My brother buys a lot of parts on e-bay, and it seems he gets a lot of junk along with the gems. I really can't give up building guitars, my latest creation is a mohogany toilet seat cover, with purpleheart stripes, and 18 coats of nitro laquer, and all I can think about is how it would sound as a neckthrough. Thanks again for the input.