rabjet Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 Having just begun my first guitar, and having most of the woodwork possible done already without having purchased bridges, tremolo units, nuts or pickups, I am utterly bewildered by the sheer variety of possibilities of bridges and locking units available on all of the sites recommended by ProjectGuitar. ProjectGuitar has been a fabulous help thus far, but at this point, to fully shape the neck, fretboard, and decide upon string lengths etc, i need to get a bridge and string unit. How would i go about deciding what locking units and bridges to purchase, and would there be serious compatability issues between different units? Also, is there a serious problem with different bridges with regards to the use of tremolo locking units (ie, is there a specialised unit for specific bridges) Please help! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGGR Posted April 1, 2005 Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 All depends what you want out of your guitar. What sound (and effects) you are after. What type of guitar are you building.....(alhough that not necessarily limits the possibilies). E.g. into metal, dive bombs, Steve Vai type sounds.....then go Floyd Rose..... You could also take this from type of guitar you are building: Strat type guitar - strat type tremolo or Floyd Rose LP type guitar - TOM kinda bridge (rarely FR) RG type guitar - FR type tremolo BB king/Jazz kind of guitar - Bigby type bridge. Again.....you could fit RG type guitar with TOM, or any other set-up you want.......All is up to you. Depends what you want out of guitar. Mostly you start with lay out of body design and incorporate scale length and bridge type and placement. What kind of bridge has effect on type of nut....has effect on top part of neck....... Hope this helps a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabjet Posted April 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2005 Thanks RGGR - helps a lot. Honestly, I'm building as I go - solid body mahogony body, imitating an Ibanez Jem(without carrying handle!), with a one-piece Iroka teak neck/headstock. I've been kinda drooling over Lucille in recent months, and if i was looking for something to get a nice jazz sound, would a bigsby tailpiece be what i was looking for? On Lucille herself, there seems to be a locking bridge without tremolo unit, and a high action bridge. That said though, if I wanted the jazz sound with a bigsby tailpiece, am i then looking at a whole range of problems trying to get a bridge which works well with it, or will almost any tailpiece do the trick? I really appreciate the help... rabjet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterMinds Posted April 2, 2005 Report Share Posted April 2, 2005 rabjet - your best bet isn't to ask people here. Just go online, to manufacturers you like and some custom ones you find here, and take a look at what you like. And what you need - do you need a wicked vibrato system? Or do you not. What's your playing style. Just make a list of possibilities - colors (gold, black, silver) and then go looking for solutions. search musiciansfriend.com for many options and get an idea of choices. for instance I like the vertical tuning pegs instead of normal ones, you might not. I don't know much about tailpieces as I never used one. Try to narrow your questions by finding examples of what you like! Make a folder on your PC of a "collage" of photos of guitar parts you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGGR Posted April 2, 2005 Report Share Posted April 2, 2005 rabjet - your best bet isn't to ask people here. Yeah, rabjet......there is a slight chance you learn something. Something MM has very hard time with..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivin Posted April 2, 2005 Report Share Posted April 2, 2005 No need to jump down anyones throats - I think what MasterMinds was meaning was that as far as finding out what you like goes, surfing around manufacturers websites would be a a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted April 2, 2005 Report Share Posted April 2, 2005 Rabjet- Try to get a good understanding of the basics of construction before you look at hardware options. For example figure out how and why you may want neck angle or no neck angle. If you understand the basics you can look at hardware and see what parts will work best for you and what you will need to do to your design to make it work correctly. Also look at how others go about building guitars with similar designs. A Bigsby will not make your guitar sound like Lucille. If you have allready started construction, is the neck constructed with no angle? Having allready started you will need a bridge that will work with what you have built. If you want a warm jazz sound at this point in construction your pickups and electronics will be the place to focus (wood and design options are pretty much done, unless you start re-working what is allready built). rabjet - your best bet isn't to ask people here. Just go online, to manufacturers you like and some custom ones you find here, and take a look at what you like. And what you need - do you need a wicked vibrato system? Or do you not. What's your playing style. Just make a list of possibilities - colors (gold, black, silver) and then go looking for solutions. search musiciansfriend.com for many options and get an idea of choices. for instance I like the vertical tuning pegs instead of normal ones, you might not. I don't know much about tailpieces as I never used one. Try to narrow your questions by finding examples of what you like! Make a folder on your PC of a "collage" of photos of guitar parts you like. Masterminds comments are fair enough. He seems to be a real go getter when it comes to researching parts and new innovations. I really don't think he has taken the time to research the basics, or actually work through construction process. It's pretty easy to lose track of the big picture when you focus in on details only. Peace, Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabjet Posted April 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2005 fryovanni - cheers man - i'll just throw a few more details out while i'm at it, and see if anyone has any good ideas - the neck is a one-piece carved out of Iroka Teak, with the headstock (ibanez shape) cut down at about a 30 degree angle. The neck is going to be substantially long - going for at least 24 frets, as the higher end suits my playing style, and i'm aiming to scallop the latter 8 or so frets...ambitious project for a first timer, i know, but i've always aimed high (and occasionally fallen flat on my face...) The body, being mahogony, is a solid, roughly 2" thick piece, in a sorta fat version of an ibanez jem. Obviously, it's going to be a heavy guitar, but having checked out the internet a little more, I have sorta come to the conclusion that I'm going to aim for a more basic guitar than Lucille. Sorta thinking about getting some TOMs, perhaps running with a couple of humbuckers, and a single coil in the middle. Not entirely sure if that'll work well, but it's about the best I got for the time being... If you guys have any more advice on that kinda set up, and if you think it might be worth throwing on the guitar, please let me know... Meantime, thanks for all the help so far - i'm really starting to love this forum! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGGR Posted April 2, 2005 Report Share Posted April 2, 2005 It's funny to read the choices you made. (not saying wrong or right...) Just saying...that's it's like seeing a 2 year old draw.....they use the colors they like and just draw......when they're 3-4 they have learned to draw people and houses and cars, and have hard time unlearning this again. They are spoiled by knowledge so to say. (Maybe that's why Cobra painters had such a hardtime painting like kids again.) What I'm trying to say is....people who know more about guitars, and have build a couple....tend to make certain choices because knowledge ruins there objectivity. Read 2" body, read Mahogany, read TOM....most people will yell .....Les Paul. You stated you are aiming for the 24 frets, Ibanez RG look.......with matching angled headstock (although Ibanez uses 13 degrees headstock angle)...... Guess you could say you're building an RG with personality problem. ;-) Interesting to know what scale length you are shooting for....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigtommyb Posted April 2, 2005 Report Share Posted April 2, 2005 Personally i think this sounds brilliant because 90% of the time im sat down playing guitar so comfort would b an issue (which is why i love the Jem/RG shape) but i also like the LP sound and feel so to me your mixing the LP features and putting in the comfort factor that they dont have (to me) when sat down. Just curious what style of music you play or is it something for everything. because if its something for everything i would go for a bigsby or standard trem (which ever you prefer the feel of) as this gives you all the added effects you can achieve with a tremolo. Also if you went with the bigsby would be like the John5 telecaster mixing old and new styles. Just my 2p BigT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted April 2, 2005 Report Share Posted April 2, 2005 Hmmm... How can I help? the neck is a one-piece carved out of Iroka Teak, with the headstock (ibanez shape) cut down at about a 30 degree angle. When You say this. It tells me you need to research headstock angle and why and how much to use (normally 0-13 deg.). I would also read up on this type of wood. The questions you need to ask yourself are- Is this a stable wood, will it be have adequit strength, what should this wood sound like, how easy is it to work with and do I have tools that will be able to do the job. Mind you I am not saying this is a good or bad choice, these are just the questions I would ask myself. The neck is going to be substantially long - going for at least 24 frets, as the higher end suits my playing style, and i'm aiming to scallop the latter 8 or so frets When you say this. I think what is the scale length? 24 frets- you are thinkin about what you want to be able to play (perfect- thats good planning). Scalloping last 8 frets, Ok- Do you have a clear plan for how you will scallop the frets and have the tools need to do this (have you researched the process?). The body, being mahogony, is a solid, roughly 2" thick piece, in a sorta fat version of an ibanez jem. Obviously, it's going to be a heavy guitar, but having checked out the internet a little more, I have sorta come to the conclusion that I'm going to aim for a more basic guitar than Lucille Mahogany, solid, 2", heavy.More basic than Lucille. First question that comes to mind. Do you still want a nice warm jazz tone, and is the extra weight prefered or is the 2" body the preferance? I again would research what I expect out of the wood tonally. If you want you could read up on routing out some of the wood and cap it with a nice top. This may allow you to add some of the features of a hollow body body to a solid with a bit of the weight removed and still maintain the 2" thickness in the body. A top may also allow you to use another type of wood that may compliment the Mahogany (like a Les Paul- Maple top/Mahogany Back. You really need to know what you want to achive tonally before you make these choices. Sorta thinking about getting some TOMs, perhaps running with a couple of humbuckers, and a single coil in the middle. Not entirely sure if that'll work well, but it's about the best I got for the time being This tells me you don't know whether you want a fixed bridge or trem. Figure out what you need/prefer. After that you need to figure out which will best suit your design. Do some homework on the basic fixed and Trem styles, that will narrow it down. Then you can choose a manufacturer/model. It kinda sounds like your shootin blindly right now. Again on the pickups HSH-OK, but what tone are you lookin for? Differnent configs can have strengths and weaknesses. It is really a personal choice based on what your style of play requires and tone and how versatile you need the guitar to be. Research and Homework required, nobody can make these desisions for you. It really comes down to your personal preferance. Fretboard wood? Type of fretwire? Tuners that work best with your design? Fretboard inlay? 6-7-or 8 string? Drawings to build to? ambitious project for a first timer, i know, but i've always aimed high (and occasionally fallen flat on my face...) Ambition is great. I have seen a lot of amazing first timer builds. If ya fall ya get back up.. not a thang. I really hope you have fun with the project. Patience, Planning, and Hard work is all it takes. Peace, Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabjet Posted April 2, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2005 Wow. I'm kinda blown away by the quality and speed of the responses here - i'm really chuffed. Some great stuff coming out as well - firstly, I believe I misquoted the angle of the headstock. Should read just a little under 15 degrees - still maybe just a touch steep. Iroka teak is literally as hard as nails - i was advised against working with it for hand-carving (it's mainly used as construction beams), but I've found it surprisingly good to work with (and it's cheap ), so neck down as far as the join has been cut and carved so far. Looks good enough to work with (my carpentry skills aint too bad...), so i'll stick with it for the time being. (wood sound rules as well though - really nice tone off it (African hardwood)) Was considering working with the same wood for the fretboard, as it's tough, but good to work with (cuts well, and is strong as anything else...) In terms of shape - yeah, kind of an RG with a personality problem sounds about right - and I believe i am working with my 2 year-olds perceptions here with guitars...I started making one cos it seemed like so much fun (and there's so many guitars I want....) The tutorial on scalloping on ProjectGuitar is so perfectly detailed, that I can't imagine there being too many problems (aside from sandpaper burn...) One of the most important things, i think, is the fact that i'm aiming for a large scale length, and decent length fretboard, to allow for comfort in the higher registers (which is why the ibanez shape is being modified and fattened) - if I'm using jumbo frets, it should allow for a longer, more useful neck (for my playing, which is mainly jazz fingerstyle or blues picking in the high register, so space is a premium after fret 15... In terms of style of guitar, and inlay/ornamentation/finishes, all i'll say is that i'll post it when it's up, and it should at least look impressive (even if it plays like a turd...) I suppose the idea of routing the existing shape is nice - semi-hollow body would be kinda cool, but i think i'll stick with solid for the first at least... Almost all of my playing thus far has been on acoustics/semi's, so i have no experience of electrics, or really what they're capable of (which is probably why the amusement on RGGR's part) - it probably sounds hilarious to anyone who knows what they're talking about...my blundering with terms and options...still, it's why i'm here - and believe me, i appreciate the help... (Should i just slap on a pair of humbuckers and a tremolo bridge and leave it at that?!?) Any more thoughts anyone has, i'll try buy 'em a beer sometime... rAbJet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted April 3, 2005 Report Share Posted April 3, 2005 Rabjet, Sounds like you are on track. It is really good to hear someone who has researched their work. You haven't mentioned the scale length you plan on using, but have mentioned it will be long. I am really curious now (24.75,25,25.5,27,28,30?????). Be careful to conscider how much extra tension or lighter gauge strings will be required. It may feel a bit odd given the style of play you mentioned (just a thought, I am sure you will check into it fully before you choose). Bridge- Do you plan on an angled neck or do you want to stay flat? no angle non-trem - Non-trem strat style. - *Recessed TOM trem - *Recessed Floyd - Wilkinson style - Strat style trem with angle (adjusted for bridge) non-trem - Any* trem - Any* * angle must match bridge requirements Pickups H H-H HSH HSS SSS Humbuckers, singles, stacked singles, PAF's,Soapbars,Lipstick,P90's Dual pole,single pole, bar mags/ alnico,ceramic/ covers, exposed poles/ z of the coils. Did I mention active/passive/ passive w/active controls. Try to play guitars with some different combo's to give you some idea of what seems to suit you best. For me I can get by with just a humbucker in the bridge position 95% of the time, so that is my highest priority. Maybe check out Duncans web site. Keep in mind there is a lot of hype and mystery associated with brand name PUP's. Sometimes it's tough to cut through the fluff. Later, Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGGR Posted April 3, 2005 Report Share Posted April 3, 2005 (edited) Almost all of my playing thus far has been on acoustics/semi's, so i have no experience of electrics, or really what they're capable of (which is probably why the amusement on RGGR's part) - it probably sounds hilarious to anyone who knows what they're talking about...my blundering with terms and options...still, it's why i'm here - and believe me, i appreciate the help... Remember there is no right or wrong in guitar building. When you make a custom instrument it will be YOUR custom instrument. Choices of wood, scale length, bridge type, body shape, headstock shape, angle, type of fredboard, laminated top wood, neck wood, pick-up types,....are all up for grabs. There are smart ways of building one, and stupid ways. Most guys here are just commenting on the stupid ways........so others won't make the same mistakes they once made. But in the end.....how the guitar will final materialize is totally up to you. And nothing wrong with doing something fresh, based on some fresh ideas. The more you will learn about guitars and building them the more you will have forgotten. so neck down as far as the join has been cut and carved so far. You're done with neckshaping yet......but haven't decided on scale length yet??? Hmmmmmmm......interesting concept. I alwasy thought that form would follow function. Meaning you start of with your scale length and base the shape of neck on this. Just curious! And if you have digital camera......post some pics willya. You can use photobucket.com to create account and link pictures with [ img ] link to pic [/ img ] tags in your message. Edited April 3, 2005 by RGGR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabjet Posted April 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2005 You're done with neckshaping yet......but haven't decided on scale length yet??? Hmmmmmmm......interesting concept. I alwasy thought that form would follow function. Meaning you start of with your scale length and base the shape of neck on this. Just curious! It seems that once again I have been less than clear - the headstock has been carved out of a one piece, but the width of the fretboard has been left with about an inch of play either side of my anticipated finish (allowing to be cut down once i decide fully on scale length and bridge width. Carving it out of one piece of teak obviously requires a lot of work even before that stage, so that's all i have completed thus far... also, i've left the depth of the neck (at the joint with the guitar body) unhoned at all, so i have plenty of space to work with, with regards to the neck joint (with which i'm going for a through neck...) Scale length - i'm thinking that 28 or so would be nice - as i said, i'm looking for the space down on the fretboard - having checked a couple of other sites (such as buildyourguitar.com) which has it's own fret C program calculator, i can figure not only fret positions for 1-24, but using my own calculations, can continue as far as i want...either way, that's not a problem - done and dusted. The main reason for starting this forum was cos i need to keep working on the neck, and without a proper measurement off the bridge, can't continue with the neck shaping (without taking some rather unneccesary risks...), so i felt advice was needed at this point... Again, thanks for all the help guys - i think decisions will be reached in the next couple of days - i'll get some photos up as soon as i feel anything worthwhile has been done! Cheers guys - RaBjeT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted April 3, 2005 Report Share Posted April 3, 2005 Your last message has questions running through my head, but I am going to have faith and watch for some pictures. Sounds like you are having a good time with the project. I wish you nothin but the best of luck. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGGR Posted April 3, 2005 Report Share Posted April 3, 2005 It seems that once again I have been less than clear - the headstock has been carved out of a one piece, but the width of the fretboard has been left with about an inch of play either side of my anticipated finish (allowing to be cut down once i decide fully on scale length and bridge width. Carving it out of one piece of teak obviously requires a lot of work even before that stage, so that's all i have completed thus far... Proofs once again that the devil is in the detail. Scale length - i'm thinking that 28 or so would be nice - as i said, i'm looking for the space down on the fretboard - having checked a couple of other sites (such as buildyourguitar.com) which has it's own fret C program calculator, i can figure not only fret positions for 1-24, but using my own calculations, can continue as far as i want...either way, that's not a problem - done and dusted. 28" scale length on regular 6 string will be an interesting concept. Specially when not having intention of down tuning. You might want to read up on baritone guitars, they mostly have extended scale length. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannoG Posted April 3, 2005 Report Share Posted April 3, 2005 As others have noted, the scale length is so central to the design that it would ideally be determined early on. My thoughts about a 28 inch scale with standard tuning are mostly about string tension and neck stiffness. Using anythinh other than extra light strings (8s) wuld mean very high string tensions. Playing bends could be a major problem. And the string pull on the neck would need a major truss rod and/or stiffeners such as carbon fiber rods. I'd think a bass truss rod would be in order. Like the others, my comments are not meant to discourage you from building this concept, just let you consider where those choices may lead you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabjet Posted April 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2005 DannoG - interesting problem i hadn't considered before. Obviously, this is my first build, so i'm relying heavily on the forum and tutorial sections in projectguitar, but do you think there would be an alternate method of improving space at the higher frets without lengthening scale length? One of the reasons i began building this guitar is on many guitars, once you get past 15/16, playing intricate pieces becomes immensely space reliant. I have a Washburn 24 fret semi, which is towards the top of the line, but i want more freedom in the higher frets. My original thoughts were to increase scale length and increase fret number, but as you said, tension may be running high (unlike in the Ring 2), so I'm now a little concerned over how I might approach this problem. I know already that teak and mahogony will stand up to some immense pressure and tension, but WILL this destroy playing bends? I'm unsure. About the hgh tension requiring a bass truss rod - possibly a good idea there - The main idea/aesthetic/misguidance I had in the design of this guitar was greater freedom in the higher frets, and more than 24. The body has been designed large, with a long neck (still not set though, of course). The body was designed large, predominantly for comfort, and solidity. I'm thinking that teak and mahogany will be strong enough to do the job, but will i have to fully redesign? Am i barking up the wrong bridge? Anyway, cheers for the help - i'm looking forward to hearing what comes next... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGGR Posted April 3, 2005 Report Share Posted April 3, 2005 The main idea/aesthetic/misguidance I had in the design of this guitar was greater freedom in the higher frets, and more than 24. The body has been designed large, with a long neck (still not set though, of course). The body was designed large, predominantly for comfort, and solidity. I'm thinking that teak and mahogany will be strong enough to do the job, but will i have to fully redesign? Am i barking up the wrong bridge? Aaaaah, now I see what you are trying to accomplish. More fret spacing on the higher frets. See again, I hear longer scale length....I think down tuning of guitar.....I think harder to play cords higher on neck....meaning closer to headstock. See....all conditioning. You mean......I want more space between higher frets. Thing is. I also hear you say....possibly more than 24 frets. ......but ...even with going to say 30" scale length.....you hardly gain any scale length in between frets in higher range....closer to bridge.......mainly your spacing will iincrease considerable in lower region..(read: 1st-4rth fret.) So the answer to problem may look simple with increasing scale length.....but in the end is only partly solving your problem and creating tons of other problems. Player cords on higher frets, string tension......difficulty tuning high E or A (tension problem)...etc. My suggeston would be to for slightly longer scale length....say 27". String tension will be still manageable.......and you still will be able to use regular truss rods and strings........increasing spacing tid bit........ But I would look also into thinner frets. 6105 type....and scalloping your fretboard in higher regions. That's my $0.02. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted April 4, 2005 Report Share Posted April 4, 2005 Rabjet, ya got access to CAD software? I had drawn up a similar guitar for another board member. It was similar in body style. He asked for 30" scale 8 string. I could tweek it a bit to match the scale you want and send it to ya. Then you could play with the design. PM me if ya think that would help. Peace, Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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