LordMare Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 Hey! Yesterday I got two nice chunks of walnut tree (fresh, It was cut yesterday), they are about 30-50 cm wide and 60-80 cm long. They stil have the skin on . What is the best way to dry it so I could make my tele? How should I protect them from splitting? Thanks so much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supernova9 Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 Hey! Yesterday I got two nice chunks of walnut tree (fresh, It was cut yesterday), they are about 30-50 cm wide and 60-80 cm long. They stil have the skin on . What is the best way to dry it so I could make my tele? How should I protect them from splitting? Thanks so much! how thick are they? Unless you're kiln drying them - the rule is that they need to be stickered and air-dried for one year per inch of thickness. I'm afraid you won't be making anything from them any time soon really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordMare Posted July 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 Well, 1 piece weight is around 30 kilos This tree was cut with chainsaw and cut to pieces around 80 cm long. The tree is around 50 cm wide. Should I cut it somehow to blanks and than dry it like a sandwich with sticks between to allow air flow? Thickness of a guitar body? Would it be alright to dry it in a small barack (little wooden house) with open windows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 Well, 1 piece weight is around 30 kilos This tree was cut with chainsaw and cut to pieces around 80 cm long. The tree is around 50 cm wide. Should I cut it somehow to blanks and than dry it like a sandwich with sticks between to allow air flow? Thickness of a guitar body? Would it be alright to dry it in a small barack (little wooden house) with open windows? Sounds like you have the idea behind drying basically correct. A couple things that need to be done. You need to seal the end grain. Water will release from the open end grain much faster than from side grain. This uneven drying will create uneven shrinkage and splitting. Remove the bark. That will help provent rot and decay caused by trapped moisture. It is a good idea to cut the wood to thinner dimensions. Remember though it will shrink so don't cut it too close to your final required thickness (2.5- 3" slab is not uncommon, but of course the thicker it is the longer it will take to dry). A barack/shed would be fine. Just be careful to not allow insects to get to the wood. You want good air flow around the wood. Placing sticks between the pieces helps the air flow. Some things you can do to speed the process. More air movement, heat can help because it will help the moisture release and evaporation. If you dry too quickly the surface can become dry too quickly and stop the wicking process (ie. don't get the wood "hot"). Also drying too rapidly can cause staining (more common with lighter colored woods such as Maple). So seal the ends, remove the bark, cut to reaonable dimensions, place sticks between for air flow, keep the wood from getting rained on, and keep the air circulating. Then give it 8-12 months per inch. Let us know in a couple years how it is doing. P.S. You could also look for a facility that offers Kiln drying service. That could speed the process up if you are in a hurry. If you need it in a few weeks. Best to buy some wood and let this wood dry for a while. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordMare Posted July 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 Thanks for your help! I posted a question on a local forum to get some informations on Kilns - waiting... If this sollution with kiln doesn't end good, I'll just have to buy new wood and air dry this piece of walnut . Can you recommend me the thickness of cut? With what should I seal the ends of planks? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 Thanks for your help! I posted a question on a local forum to get some informations on Kilns - waiting... If this sollution with kiln doesn't end good, I'll just have to buy new wood and air dry this piece of walnut . Can you recommend me the thickness of cut? With what should I seal the ends of planks? Thanks! You can pick up end grain sealer at most woodworking stores. It is basically a wax paint, or you could dip the end in wax(pretty messy compaired to wax paint). I would leave about 25% extra thickness ( if you want 2" dry start at 2.5" wet- that should be fine). Don't wait too long to remove the bark and seal the end grain. Even if you kiln dry it these precautions will be good. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordMare Posted July 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 Thanks for help, I'll go to the store to get this wax paint as soon as possible. I'll post something when I saw it! Marko. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 I think what really needs to be said is that you cannot use fresh wood at all, it is truly a bad idea to even consider using wood that hasn't dried out for several YEARS. Rich is just telling you in a really nice way that you can't use that wood unless you have it professionally kiln dried first (am I right Rich? ) down to around 8-10% moisture content (or less) If you use that wood, count on all your time, efforts, and money wasted as it splits and warps and cups and moves on you down the road. There is a very good reason luthiers use SEASONED wood. Just trying to save you some heartache by giving you the facts up front and easy to understand in case you were under the impression that you could actually use that wood anytime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 I think what really needs to be said is that you cannot use fresh wood at all, it is truly a bad idea to even consider using wood that hasn't dried out for several YEARS. Rich is just telling you in a really nice way that you can't use that wood unless you have it professionally kiln dried first (am I right Rich? ) down to around 8-10% moisture content (or less) If you use that wood, count on all your time, efforts, and money wasted as it splits and warps and cups and moves on you down the road. There is a very good reason luthiers use SEASONED wood. Just trying to save you some heartache by giving you the facts up front and easy to understand in case you were under the impression that you could actually use that wood anytime soon. Thanks Drak, I thought I was being very nice , and I think when I said-"Let us know in a couple years how it is doing.". That made the times lines pretty clear. Drying your own wood is silly in terms of dollars and cents unless you have the benifit of lots of space, volume and time. I see adds all the time for free cut trees **you haul it away**. I think knowing how to do it though and using some small quantity that you dried yourself is kinda cool. I think he is on the same page as he responded with-"If this sollution with kiln doesn't end good, I'll just have to buy new wood and air dry this piece of walnut ". Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordMare Posted July 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 I know that using fresh wood is useless. And all kilns around here are drying wood in LARGE quantities so that's not an option . The only thing that remains is to cut the wood in planks and dry it on air for 2-3 years, right? Can you please explain to me what is seasoned wood like? Thanks! M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikbojerik Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 using some small quantity that you dried yourself is kinda cool Mine is coming along better every day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 I know that using fresh wood is useless. And all kilns around here are drying wood in LARGE quantities so that's not an option . The only thing that remains is to cut the wood in planks and dry it on air for 2-3 years, right? Can you please explain to me what is seasoned wood like? Thanks! M. It is just wood that has dried enough to be stable (has stopped releasing moisture, and so yuo don't see shrinkage anymore). Think of wood much like a sponge. When a sponge is wet is is fairly large, and as it dries it shrinks. With wood it takes a bit longer for it to dry because the moisture has to wick to the surface and evaporate. The wood is not stable until that wicking and release process has reached a point where it has stabalized with its environment. Thus no longer releases moisture. As wood gets below 10-12% it is pretty stable and is often acceptable for furnature making. With instrumnets you want the wood to be even more stable (say 3-6%). Of course the exact percentage may vary with normal humidity level in your area. You will also hear people refer to the wood as fully acclimated. Most wood that you buy that is kiln dried will be 8-12% moisture. You will find air dried wood can be much more of a wild card. It is also possible to run across case hardened kiln dried (where it was dried to fast), this will have a high moisture content in the center of the wood as the "skin" has dried so unevenly it traps the internal moisture (wicking stops). If you cut into one of these boards it will cup like a mother. Hope that helps, Rich Erik- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordMare Posted July 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 One more question! Can I seal the ends with normal laquer for wood? I have plenty of that at home... BTW, thanks for help guys!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 One more question! Can I seal the ends with normal laquer for wood? I have plenty of that at home... BTW, thanks for help guys!!! Can't tell you if it would work well or not, would depend on how well the finish stays put. Wax paint is the method I have always used. Laquer would stop or at a min. slow the process which is the goal. Good luck,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drak Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 Lacquer is actually porous -to an extent-, it allows water vapor to pass both ways at the thicknesses we typically use, whereas I'm guessing a good fat slather of parrafin wax would pretty well seal those ends up right. And wax is cheap anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank Posted July 9, 2006 Report Share Posted July 9, 2006 Hi everyone, This is my first time here so plaese excuse me if this question is slightly off the subject. A local lumber supplier has some Philippine Mahogany that Im concidering for my first attempt at a guitar body. can I safely assume that it is dry and seasoned enough to use if I bought it from a suplier that stores it inside? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted July 9, 2006 Report Share Posted July 9, 2006 Frank- You have to talk to the dealer. They can give you an idea as to how long and under what conditions it has been drying. It is only as safe as your faith in the dealer. Your options; Buy a meter and test (even a cheap meter can give you a fair idea), the other option would be to buy from a dealer you truste (if you are not comfortable with this dealer). As far as visual clues- Are the ends sealed? Are the boards stacked so that air can flow between the boards, is it protected or covered from the elements? Drak- Wax is more suitable. The end grain does not have to be sealed completely though. Just slowed down to even the drying speed vs side grain. Regular paint may not stay put (that would be my fear during long drying periods). Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heath Posted July 9, 2006 Report Share Posted July 9, 2006 (edited) Here is a site I reference all the time in regards to drying, storage, and general information about wood. Wood Web Knowlege Base Scroll down about half way on the page and look for the Primary Processing section. Don't know if anybody frequents this page or not. You could always build a small solar kiln and dry it out. Of course that may not be cost effective for just a little walnut. I just use part of my garage. It eventually drys out. I would definately seal the ends though. I learned early on that you can ruin some very nice wood by not sealing the ends Edited July 9, 2006 by heath Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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