My First Project

[Metasis]

EDIT:

First post was HUGE because I did my introduction and then started talking in detail about various parts. I think it might put people off replying so solution! Going to bullet point the post very small right here and anyone who doesnt want to read the original can just skip the rest of the post xD Original post below bullets:

- is the spray paint at this webpage suitable for a guitar job? just double checking

- on the above page is "clear acrylic" the same as lacquer and clear coat that people mention to finish a paint job with? if not, what the clear sealer section?

- for painting the simple stars in the design can anyone come up with a better idea than soaking a small artists brush in paint and flicking the bristles with your thumb to create a scatter/speckle effect? the stars dont have to be the same as on the design, that was just me clicking with a mouse whilst eating chicken

- if the base coat is sprayed on (solid black) using the above type of spray paint, is there any particular type of paint i should use for the stars and fine detailing the stencil designs?

- how many coats of solid black? just until theres absolutly no primer showing through or do a set number regardless of what the eye says for "good measure"?

- if i have to put multiple coats of black on will I then have to worry about multiple coats of paint for the stencils?

- finally, i've seen some ppl talk about sanding things back down between coats of paint and clear. nessiary? or do all the painting, apply all the layers of clear and THEN sand?

Thanks!

-Dave

ORIGINAL POST: (skip it if its too long)

Hey guys, just come for a bit of advice about my first project. Will try and keep post size down but I do have a tendancy to waffle on - sorry about that xD

found your site some time ago and have been following various projects and stuff with great interest. It all seems like alot of fun and i've always liked working with my hands (I designed and built most of the wood work in this room - monitor docks and tv/entertainment stand with dvd racks etc etc) so i've finally decided to give this a go.

Although one day I would love to try and build my own guitar from scratch I simply cannot commit the amount of money to do it "right" at the moment - but refinishing a guitar, ahah There was no way I was going to tear apart and try on an expensive guitar for my first ever attempt though, so I picked up a beaten old thing off of ebay - this is what I got:

Crafter stratocaster

its missing its electronics but it was dirt cheap. my logic is if I ruin this then i've lost little more than £20 but if it turns into some sexy thing I can go buy some new electronics for it and probably end up with a guitar that is better than when it was first sold

Anyway, onto buisness. First things first I may as well show one of the designs I have been working on. I took the ebay preview image and created paths around it in photoshop (vector art basically) and then scaled the path right up and used it as a template. I guestimated the relative size and shape of the scratch plate based off the screw holes for it on the guitar. For this design I intend to be working mainly with spray paint and stencils. This is not a finished design, but here:

angel design

Right. Now my ultimate aim is to have a smooth and high gloss finish. The type of spray paint I have easy access to here in england is plastikote via B&Q - the local store seems to mainly stock the Super range which is:

plasti-kote super page

i'm presuming this will be fine for the job? My question is about the different types they do. Matt, satin and gloss. Now i know I want a gloss finish but I also know I will be applying several layers of clear sealer/laquer after which has a shine all to itself. I have never done this type of thing before so i'm wondering, would gloss paint and a shiney top coat be like.. not nice in some way? too blinding? or shall I just go gloss gloss gloss all the way? XD

Now about painting the whole thing - the design may look a bit complex especially for a first timer, but i'm hoping this is not the case. Originally I wanted to burst a black edge to a VERY dark blue middle but platikote do not do a blue dark enough for my tastes so i'm going for solid black. The stars I want to ask about - my first instinct for making a starry background on the guitar would be, after applying the solid black coat, to get a small paint brush and cover it in white paint and slowly flick the bristles with my thumb to create scatters/speckles? would that be ok or is there a better idea for making stars? If that is okay then I want some paint that is not in a spray can. What sort of paint should I use for this sort of task? I mean like, can I just head to the shed and pull out an old tin of white paint I did the house wall with last year? XD

the moon and the angel and the cross are all stencils (all but the cross are multiply layered of course). The moon i've pretty much finished but the angel still needs alot of work before shes stencil-ready. I have been converting a CG image you see. Most of the work is lays in actually creating the stencil itself - after that its just a case of keeping the stencil still on the guitar body whilst i spray or roll over it xD Thats why I think I can get away with such an ambitious looking design as the complexity will lay in designing and cutting out the stencil properly - which i can take as many goes at as i need

Obviously creating the stencil meant totally reducing the colours but whilst doing this I began to think, after i've sprayed the stencil on maybe I could go over with a small brush and add some detail to her? if this is acceptable then same question as before, what sort of paint to use for brushing on fine detail? does it matter?

FINALLY (told you I waffle, sorry ><) I just want to make sure I understand the procedure and how many coats of what.

First job when the guitar finally arrives will be to get the sticker off and strip the paint. I have a palm sander, a precision sander is availiable from my neighbour to borrow and I also own a heat gun so i'll follow the tutorials for those two seperate methods and see what i'm most comfortable with (will accept advice on prefered methods however). Then I intend to coat it in primer and here my certainty is begining to wave a bit because it seems different people in different places all have a different amount of coats of stuff they wish to apply depending on what exact style and finish they are going for!

i'm presuming that I just need to apply primer until its all noticiably covered? Of course, after sanding the body I may wish to apply some sort of sealer - the guitar has not yet arrived so no idea what type of wood its made of. Then I will spray the body solid black. Now its my understanding that I should apply at least four coats of black - is that correct? maybe a bit more? or less? XD Some people seem to talk about applying two coats, sanding it down, applying another 2, sanding it down.. ad infinitum - is that nessiary? Or should I just follow the spray paints instructions of "just leave 5 minutes between coats" ?

Then comes the fine detail. First the stars seem like the most logical choice - I already mentioned how I intend to do those. Then the stencils. Now i'm wondering - if the black needed X amount of coats.. what about the stencils? because they are on top of black will it only need one coat per stencil layer or am I thinking about this all wrong? Obviously I will make sure the black has dried completely (not just touch dry) before applying stencils (unless someone says otherwise) but just exactally what I should be preparing to do with the stencils i'm a little uncertain of.

Finally, the gloss lacquer - I get confused here because on the plastikote website and indeed when I was in b&q I could not find anything labled laqcuer. But I do see things like "clear acrylic" and "clear sealer" (the latter having a description of "Water-based Clear Sealers provide a deep, rich durable coating in gloss, satin or matt finishes.") which all sounds about right - is it just different names for the same thing?

I am VERY sorry for the waffling on here and also if I have asked things readilly availiable in forums or tutorials already. Just I spent so long reading a ton of different techniques that i've actually confused myself unsure of which way is right for what I intend! So I thought I better ask you experts because although the guitar was cheap I would still like this to work out okay

Hopfully this is the start of a new hobby for me!

Thankyou for your time

-Dave

Edited December 24, 2006 by Metasis

[zeppelinchld]

first of all hav u painted a guitar before???????

if your interested in learning to paint w/ spray cans, buy books at this website. www.paintyourownguitar.com.

that paint job will probably b hard to do, not a beginner paint job, it really detailed for spray cans.

for the stars if u use the speckle brush idea it wont be consistent and u will get a lot more stars than the angel design u did has.

sorry i didnt read your whole post but it was REALLY lONG!!!!!!!! so i think u were talking about clear. if you want to use spray can clear which would b good to do if your doing the design w/ spray cans, you will need about 35 coats of clear, mayb 3 cans worth, and i know thats a lot, but when u wetsand it, u will need a lot of clear on top to level out the ridges in the paint or u will just sand right into the design u put a lot of hard work into. also with spray cans u need to let the 35ish coats of clear set for about 2 months, more would b better, but thats how long it takes to get the wood to absorb the clear and hav it b suitable to wetsand.

[zeppelinchld]

i just read some more of ur post and u ask about stencils. i dont know what u think a stencil is but u wouldnt just lay something on it and spray.

u hav to cover the body in blue painters tape then draw the design on the tape(in pencil, not markers or sharpie cuz when u spray it the ink will run into ur paint). then u would cut out the design from the tape with an x acto knife

[Metasis]

thanks for the reply just woke up so a little groggy still!

yes sorry it was so long! lets keep this one short.

the stencils i'm used to making and using are a design I would make on a computer, print out on paper and then laminate them to make them firm and washable. I would then use a crafters knife to cut out the design from the laminated paper. then I would simply attach it in some way (usually minature clamps or simular) firmly to the surface of what i'm painting and, when nessiary, use a gloved hand to keep it flat etc. In the case of guitar painting I would also use newspaper or something simular to cover the rest of the guitar and protect it from paint.

Is that not a fesiable idea?

for complex stencils like what you see in the design the stencil would work like a flick book (or a notepad) where there is a different sheet/page for every layer and every layer is a different colour on the stencil. you start on the bottom layer which is always the base colour then flick down the next layer and spray that, then the next, etc - to build a more compelx multi colour image from the stencil.

i belive using this technique its most common to either use spray cans (graffiti artists will use this type of stencil that way) or rollers - im sure any other type of paint will work to?

[zeppelinchld]

i think that if u were to lay the laminated design on the body u would either get fuzzy lines or if u accidently spray a heavy coat it will run underneath the laminated design. once the design is set on the body it wouldnt b able to move either because you should do multiple THIN coats so u would hav to line up the design multiple times and may not b consistent. i like the flip book idea and yes it works for graffitti artists because they do complicated designs very quickly but u should not rush you guitar project. u should use lay the flip book designs on tape covering the body then cut the design out of the tape w/ an x acto knife. ive painted multiple guitars using only spray cans using different techniques. and taping of the body and cutting out the design is the most promising technique.

also i was wondering if u r still doing the stars????

[zeppelinchld]

- on the above page is "clear acrylic" the same as lacquer and clear coat that people mention to finish a paint job with? if not, what the clear sealer section?

it isnt a lacquer but w/ a certain amount of coats like i said before it should harden like laquer and it will make it shine.

- for painting the simple stars in the design can anyone come up with a better idea than soaking a small artists brush in paint and flicking the bristles with your thumb to create a scatter/speckle effect? the stars dont have to be the same as on the design, that was just me clicking with a mouse whilst eating chicken

i think you should buy a very fine detail brush and dip it in white paint then dab on each star.

- if the base coat is sprayed on (solid black) using the above type of spray paint, is there any particular type of paint i should use for the stars and fine detailing the stencil designs?

spray white spray paint(same brand as u said) in the lid so that there is enough to hav it liquidize. then dip the brush in it.

- how many coats of solid black? just until theres absolutly no primer showing through or do a set number regardless of what the eye says for "good measure"?

you need about 3 - 4 extremely thin coats, after about the 3 coat the primer should be completely covered. dont overdue each coat. leave about 15 minutes between coats of the same color, leave about 24 hours before changing colors.

- if i have to put multiple coats of black on will I then have to worry about multiple coats of paint for the stencils?

- finally, i've seen some ppl talk about sanding things back down between coats of paint and clear. nessiary? or do all the painting, apply all the layers of clear and THEN sand?

u probably shouldnt sand between color coats but the cleear should be sanded after all coats are put on and dried then use polishs talked about on the forum

again only 3-4 thin coats, dont overdue the coats

[Metasis]

zeppelinchld, thanks so much for all your replies! your advice is invaluable and i'm glad someone is helping me out with these first steps

and merry christmas from the UK (its past midnight xD)

okay, the stars - yes I intend to add them. I have no problem with doing them by hand, I have any number of small artist brushes which i use for oil painting and water colours so I can do that. I wouldnt of thought of spraying white spray paint into a lid/container and using that though xD good idea

the only thing i'm not sure about now is your way of doing the complex images with masking using painters tape - to start with i would be a little worried cutting out tape with any knife when its attached to the body incase i harmed the black coat - but i guess you cant help me with that xD thats all down to my own skill.

but i'm not sure how you would mask such a complex image with multiple colours? unless.. I suppose I could print the angel and the moon onto paper, trace them onto say grease paper or tracing paper and then rub hard with a pencil to transfer an outline onto the body. then I guess I could mask only the bits of the image I wasnt painting and paint one part, remove tape and mask again?

but I would be worried that the tape would lift paint off parts i had previously done... is that likely to happen?

also a pencil outline would be very hard to see on a black coat :/

again thanks for all your help and advice - I welcome more like I said, i'm used to working with wood, doing sanding, varnishing and I also paint for a hobby amongst other things - so i have the basic skill set I hope. But for working on an actual guitar I am a complete novice and fully admit my ignorance and need of guidance - I appreiciate all help!

thanks

[zeppelinchld]

zeppelinchld, thanks so much for all your replies! your advice is invaluable and i'm glad someone is helping me out with these first steps

the only thing i'm not sure about now is your way of doing the complex images with masking using painters tape - to start with i would be a little worried cutting out tape with any knife when its attached to the body incase i harmed the black coat - but i guess you cant help me with that xD thats all down to my own skill.

but i'm not sure how you would mask such a complex image with multiple colours? unless.. I suppose I could print the angel and the moon onto paper, trace them onto say grease paper or tracing paper and then rub hard with a pencil to transfer an outline onto the body. then I guess I could mask only the bits of the image I wasnt painting and paint one part, remove tape and mask again?

but I would be worried that the tape would lift paint off parts i had previously done... is that likely to happen?

also a pencil outline would be very hard to see on a black coat :/

i hope u mean my help is valuable.

in this picture you can c that the whole body was masked off. i had an extra template for a strat like body lying around so i taped it on top of the body. underneath the template you want to put graphite paper so you can trace the areas u want cut out and it will show up on the painters tape. then if u can c the very bottom corner of the body i had cut out some of the tape where i want to spray black. you would do this to the whole body before spraying.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r161/ze...ld/100_1464.jpg

each color is masked off at different times. on ur design you would spray the body black first.

then you would cut out only one area of the design that would need the next color. then take all the tape off. remask and cut out the next area that needs a new color. when applying tape to the body you need to make sure each color has dried for a least a day, if your really worried about pulling up paint, then let the body dry for a day or two(mayb 3).

the pencil outline wouldnt b on the paint, it would b on top of the tape covering the body so it should be easy to see. since u do a lot of art, u should have different types of pencils? use the softess led possible so u dont cut through tape until you use an x acto knife.

[Metasis]

hi! thanks again for the replies - hope your christmas went well! i'm a little hung over atm so bare with me xD

No I mean your help is invaluable - in otherwords priceless - its a good thing xD no one could put a value on it because its so good it wouldnt be sold you see? invaluable XD

yes I have plenty of pencils, masses of the things xD art supplies is np and I live about 2 minutes walk from an art shop (and the guitar shop is right next to it which is useful xD) so i can pick up more as nessiary.

one thing I have never used is graphite paper but i'm presuming by the name and how you talk about it that its just a sheet with graphite on one side and pressing down on it transfers the graphite to the surface below? i'm sure i can get some

the only thing I question now is the 1 day of drying between colours - I can handle that but theres so many seperate colours its gonna take like a week to just finish one stencil xD If thats the way its gotta be then ok, i'm not gonna rush and ruin my guitar! But is this the only way? I was looking at the Lunar Guitar Project and he seems to use a method very simular to yours, but after each coat of colour he lacquers it to protect the paint from the next mask. Maybe lacquer dries quicker than just waiting for the paint to become completely dry?

just curious xD

Thanks for all this help btw i'm feeling alot more confident already - just waiting for the guitar to arrive, its in the post somewhere :o

[zeppelinchld]

yes graphite paper is just paper w/ graphite on one side so if u draw on one side if will draw the image underneath it. I hav never used laquer on painted guitars before and on the lunar guitar he uses an airbrush. i think he is laquering because he doesnt want to mix the chemicals in the airbrush paint and his base paints. I think that if u dont use an airbrush and dont use different types of paint then just letting the colors dry should b ok. For example i use krylon spray paint so even when i would do small star speckles like urs i would still use krylon instead of using a different brand/type of paint.

i got an airbrush for christmas so i might experiment w/ laquers like the lunar guitar.

by the way what kind of guitar are u using.

[Metasis]

ohh an airbrush, that sounds cool let me know how you get on with it - i've never used one myself but i've seen people do wonderful things with them!

from the text comments on lunar guitar project I was under the impression that they were applying coats of laqcuer to protect the paint from the next mask - but i could well be wrong

The guitar i'm going to be working on is one I bought off of ebay with the single intent of painting it. I've always wanted to give this a go but obviously i'm not going to do it to an expensive guitar first time so I found a cheap one on ebay which I bought:

click here to see it

I thought it was a steal at that price. Its obviously not a great guitar, but this way if I get this unfixably wrong then I havnt lost alot. But if I get it right then I will order some new electronics for it and turn it into probably a better sounding guitar than when it was first bought because i'll hand pick some good pickups for it etc

[Foggy]

Dave, just came across your project and read with some interest your 'plan of attack' (so to speak).

First off there is nothing more satisfying than doing your own artwork on your own guitar - so already you are on to a winner. As to how you go about it.......well there are loads of different approaches depending largely upon the kit, time and skill levels you have available.

The first thing to consider when your guitar arrives is how to prepare it for your artwork. This very much depends on finish it arrives with and how battered it is. Stripping back to the wood, sealing, priming and painting is certainly one method, but, I quite often find that simply rubbing down the guitar body with 600 grade wet and dry (obviously filling any cracks and dents as you go), then priming and rubbing down with 1000 wet and dry until you get a smooth surface - works every bit as well.............and saves time.

Once your guitar is primed it's a fairly easy job transferring your design onto it, then it's simply a case of working out your painting process. If you are thinking of doing more than just this one guitar?...........I would suggest seriously considering investing in an inexpensive airbrush and some frisk masking film (both probably available at your local art shop). With masking film all you need to do is lay it over the section of your design you want to mask, and cut lightly around the object/part of your design you want to mask off with a scalpel and then remove the excess. Masking film is clear, so it is easy to see your design through it and cut your masks in-situ.

When painting I usually start with the background colour (look closely at the night sky - it isn't totally black - more a very, very dark blue), then work my way forward through the design.

As to paints...........well, if your going to use a gloss lacquer to seal your paintwork in you don't need to use a gloss paint as well. If you chose to use cellulose paints (car paints) you could use car touch up aerosoles (yes that was aerosloes!) which come in a huge variety of colours. Obviously these don't have the control of an airbrush but they can be used as long as really fine freehand work isn't required. If you wanted to paint in some of the finer detail of your design with a paintbrush, the little touch up sticks are an invaluable source of small amounts of paint - again in a huge variety of colours and metallic finishes (these will need lacquering though). The trick is to experiment.

Lacquring wise........again I use 2k automotive lacquer which requires a bit more equipment than you probably have available to you at this stage, but, if you have an automotive sprayshop somewhere nearby I'm sure they would spray a finish lacquer coat on your 'beastie' when it's done.

As to the lacquering on 'Luna'.......I was actually lacquering 'Luna' between paint coats mainly to seal in the underlying paint to prevent it lifting under further maskings. Even after leaving 'virgin' paint for several days in the past, I have still experienced paint lifting under masking film if not sealed under a lacquer coat - so I just tend to lacquer regularly now and remove the risk. Besides, all those lacquer coats make for a really lustrous finish!

Hope this has been of some use to you and your project works out well.

Jim

[Metasis]

Hey Foggy - you did the lunar guitar? Awesome work on that! I think I can honestly tell you that if I had not ran into that project page by fluke, been inspired and then typed in "custom guitars" to google and finding this website then I would never of been in a position to attempt any of this

The guitar has now arrived - its in okay condition, theres no major cracks or dents but there is the odd sign of wear here and there. The paint work is horriable imho however, the whole surface on the back is covered in lots of tiny air bubbles and all over the body you can occasionally spot tiny dimples! I'm glad for this because it means I have absolutely no bad feelings about stripping the guitar xD

i'll try your rub down method and see how it turns out first. if i'm not pleased with the surface then i'll get out the palm sander and take it right back to the wood but if your way is quicker AND works fine then, well, winner

Using car paints is an interesting idea because, as you say, high choice range of colours. The trick is to find somewhere near by to purchess them - oh i'm sure there is somewhere near here (I do not drive so have never looked for car shops) and maybe even the local B&Q stocks them SOMEWHERE - the reason I talked about the plastikote paints though is that i know they are in B&Q dominating the spray can area and a nice cheap £4.99 a can so certainly very affordable. Any good?

They have the "Clear Acrylic" top coat which seems to serve as a laquer and from the /description/ of these paints they seem perfect. having never used them however I cant vouch for them personally. but it would seem that I could spray with those paints, clear coat, spray again, etc?

I will certainly be attempting to buy some of the masking film For air brushes - I will look around and see whats on offer but for the prices I expect to see I would imagine that I would try out everything with this guitar and if then I decide "yes, this is for me, i'm gonna do lots more" /THEN/ I might purhcess one - but we will see

Probably will not begin this project until after the new year as my house has been invaded by friends coming down for the annual party and I have developed an extreme sore throat, joy xD But this gives me all the more time to plan and listen to the advice of you guys - thanks for this, its always helpful

[Foggy]

Never tried the plasticote paints so I really don't know how they would work for you/ranges of colours available/etc.. One of the biggest drawback of using aerosole paints is that you obviously can't mix your own colours for spraying - along with the obvious drawback that you are limited in your control of the paint when you're applying it from an aerosole. One thing I should have mentioned with regards to the car paints (cellulose) is that you have to be very aware of the fumes...........no doubt you would always wear a mask when spraying any paints anyway - but cellulose fumes are particularly unpleasant on the old lungs - so if you did go down that road make sure you have plenty of ventilation and a good fume mask .

By the sounds of it your guitars present finish is pretty ropey . If there are little silica spots/bubbles/dimples/pinholes in the finish on the guitar it may be that you are better to go with your original plan and just strip back to the wood and start from scratch (try an electric paint stripping heatlamp for removing the original paint). Then seal the wood, prime and go from there.

A good source for most of the materials you may find you need is ebay - I get most of my masking films, airbrushes and sundrie kit via ebay these days - if you wanted to try cellulose paints most Halfords stock a fair range.

Other than that good luck with your project ....................be warned though................once you start painting guitars you risk becoming a guitar painting junkie - and then there's simply no going back!

Jim

[Metasis]

Heyas! I will strip it down for sure, I have both a heatgun and an electric sander so I will probably use a combination of both I'm ready to start on the stripping part of it but i'm waiting for some good weather. I have no workshop you see and my room is less than ideal so I tend to do my wood working outside in the back garden - this means some decent weather is needed XD

Coming back after my little break however I am now dubious about using my spraypaint idea.. you see I knew there were draw backs with the spray and it would take longer to dry properly and tons more coats etc but I was willing to put the extra effort in to save on the money (effort is free, money isnt) but I just found a post on this board now suggesting that even if you put all the effort in and made a wonderful finish with sprays that after a week or 2 the finish just dies and your guitar looks horiable - I do not wish to waste my time if thats the case! Opinions? Maybe if I used spraycan paints designed for cars or something that would be stronger?

Open to suggsetions - worse comes to worse I will bite the bullet and get a cheap airbrush or somat, but that will severely delay the painting process of this project as I litrally have no money right now XD