Diy Floating Trem (non Locking) Questions.

[P90]

I'm just kicking around the idea of a DIY floating trem... non-locking. The pivot points I'd try to make would be similar to one of those Ibanez SAT trems which look like they have a square notch cut out on both sides of the post edge:

http://www.ibanez.com/guitars/insets/sa2160fmhs_pu.jpg

I'd try to get as much as I could from Mcmaster. I might try to make the saddles of teflon Delrin, and the block from a steel block. All the springs and screws also from Mcmaster. I'd buy a simple Fender arm and spring claw from Allparts or StewMac.

2 questions:

Would McMaster D2 tool steel be the right steel for the "top plate" whose edges have to be hard enough for the pivoting?

Does McMaster sell any screws that could be used for the posts, with that "hourglass" part at the top?

StewMac sells pivot screws, but they're $12 for just a PAIR... if not Mcmaster, does anyone else sell these screws/posts cheaper?

Edited February 17, 2007 by P90

[thegarehanman]

If you're going through the effort of making your own trem, why not go for bearing style pivots, so they won't wear down as quickly as knife edge floating trems. I've seen this done before, maybe it was an ibanez, but I like the idea.

pece,

russ

[P90]

I did a search, and that's the Vigier Excalibur.... but thats a bit more than I want to do...

http://www.vigierguitars.com/GCatalog/GIcata/trem2010.jpg

I'm just curious if Mcmasters D2 tool steel would be right for the plate with the pivots?

(and where else can I get less expensive pivot posts )

[Darrell]

Hello,

The D2 steel will work for your trem plate, it will have to be hardened after you shape it.

Also the 1045, 1095, 5160, 4140/4142, W1, A2, 01, will work. some are easier to machine and harden than others.

Whatever steel you chose you should google it to see how hard it will be to work and harden.

on this site you can find lots of information about the various metals:

http://www.matweb.com/index.asp?ckck=1

on this site you can find Anchor and stud sets (pivot post):

http://www.axcessories.com/products.asp?cat=116&pg=2

good luck

[P90]

it will have to be hardened after you shape it.

Really? The tool steel isn't hard enough on its own? After grinding the 2 knife edges, I'll have to hit them with a torch?

[Darrell]

P90

When you buy your metal in will be in an annealed state so that you can actually machine it.

After it has been worked it is usually case hardened.

When you shape the edge of you trem plate down to the knife edge you will want it hardened so that it doesn't wear quickly.

D2 is tricky to harden for the inexperienced, 01 will be much more forgiving.

Darrell

[Don Ramsay]

There are some potential problems to consider before undertaking a project like this.

Tools steels are indeed sold annealed so that you can machine them. The second two digits in the 4 digit alloy numbers above represent the amout of carbon in the alloy. The medium carbon to high carbon steels (xx45 through xx95) will harden through and through. The higher numbers are considered spring steels and would be the most difficult to machine. These high carbon alloys tend to work-harden if you are not extremely careful with your feedrates, spindle RPMs and coolant use. They can tear up even expensive solid carbide tools because the material can and will harden just in front of your cutter from the heat of cutting. Case hardening, or carburizing, on the other hand, uses a carbon rich atmosphere in the heat treating process to add carbon to a thin skin on low carbon steels (xx18), but the problem there is that the depth of the hardness is very shallow.

Another thing that must be considered is the finish you want your finished part. The materials listed above will all rust if they are not plated. There are some stainless steels that will heat treat well (i.e.: 440C) and will also buff up to a chrome-like finish.

Heat treating by a professional involves 2 steps. The first step takes the material to its full hardness. In the second step the material is "tempered", or "drawn" back to your specified hardness (i.e: 56 to 58 RC). This second step is very important in that it gives your knife edge its strength. Just doing the first step will give you an edge that is very hard but somewhat fragile and subject to chipping.

Don

[P90]

Thanks.. it certainly makes me appreciate better what goes into making these knife-edge trems.

Getting back to the "bearing" type edge, here's a good angle pic of the Hipshot trem which claims to use that:

http://www.bassandguitar.com/images/7STGVIBCLORES.jpg