Lacquer Problems... Really Need Help! ! ! !

[toby barnett]

HELLLLPPPPPP! ! ! ! ! ! !!!!!!!!!

Im making a van halen guitar.. and everything was goin perfectly... until i ran out of lacquer, and stupidly decided to use this cellulose lacquer.. it distorted sum of th colour and left a fisheye effect in places =( i hav done the best i could to save it and when i had finished doin this, i put a new coat of ACRYLIC based lacquer... th surface is dull/matt and has left some simular crater/fisheye things in places... im sick of struggling to make th guitar look good.. has any1 got any suggestions please??????

thanks

toby

Edited June 11, 2007 by toby barnett

[Acousticraft]

I am assuming the two different lacquers reacted against each other. If you want a perfect job you may be better to use stripper to remove what is there and start again. I know that is no consolation but sanding probably want work as the lacquer may not cure hard and it will probably not sand well without gumming up.

[Southpa]

Theres a lesson to learn about lacquers and paint in general. NEVER change your paint in the middle of the finishing job. If you run out of what you are using then go out and buy some more. I've even had compatibility issues between brand names of lacquer although both are acrylic lacquers. Strip it down and start over.

[-CB-]

Ditto and then some.

Even if you go with a nitro-cellulose lacquer, and switch brands you'll find their formulation is quite different. They tend to not melt in as well as they should with each other. They tend to have cure/shrinkage problems with each other. They tend to "creep" up and out of holes and routings (very weird but even Frank Ford has noted this to me in email).

I recently had a finish repair, and used my favorite lacquer (Deft) on it. I had a problem with the underlaying lacquer on a Gibson from the 70s'. The original finish "super-puffed" ... or really expanded when being hit with the Deft, and flowed the Deft to the edges of the repair. Then is shrank again on cure, leaving a ring. The fix was to just keep going... let it cure about three times longer than normally (about three months), then level it. Six weeks later... its holding up "ring free", but I'll keep checking it.

BTW, Deft is one of the great unsung heros of lacquer. Absolutely fantastic stuff to work with, and tough as nails. Fully nitro-cellulose with flowout and anti blush built in. About all I can say is it also has a UV resist and doesn't amber with age (or should I say amber as much... takes a LONG time for it to start to amber). Lowe's quite carrying it two weeks ago.... so I'm screwed for a source right now, but its good stuff for instruments.

[ihocky2]

Walmart carries Deft. As well as Woodcraft. I had never heard of it before joining this forum, and now I find it pretty much everywhere.

[-CB-]

I went to Walmart today while on business up in Vero Beach, Fl, and said... I wonder... and sho-nuff!!!! I bought every last can of Deft Gloss they had. That's about 1 guitar worth, but I'll hit Wally down by me and clean them out too.

The question was posed to Billy-Bob, a normal 16 year old fourth grade student in hillbilly country, by the new substitute teacher from a large city.

Billy-Bob, can you use the word lacquer in a sentence for me?

Billy-Bob replied, "Yass'm!", then said, "Hawkin I know if'n I lacquer, if'n I ain't even factor yet?".

(my apologies to all those offended)

[toby barnett]

Hmmmm thanks for your replies... but if youve ever seen the van halen paint job, you would understand how time consuming the paint job is, so you might be able to understand why im EXTREMELY reluctant to sand it ALLLLLL down... by th way the back is fine, its just the front that i ****ed up =/ wat would any 1 suggest, that doesnt involve redoing it completely???? lightly sand it, and spray with EXACTLY the right lacquer????

by the way, thats my myspace link with lots of pictures of wat it was starting to look like =P sorry if it wont let you on it =P

thanks

toby

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?...albumId=1018922

[erikbojerik]

so you might be able to understand why im EXTREMELY reluctant to sand it ALLLLLL down...

Yep. But there's at least one guy 'round these parts who's taken it back down to wood 8 or 9 times before finally nailing it.

And he's had loads of finishing experience.

And that's just the clear coat.

[Southpa]

More than one, . I've found you learn LOTS more through making mistakes than actually succeeding the first time (a rare occurrence). Some materials and methods may work for some folks but not for others.

A little summary of reasons I've seen on this board (and personal experience ) for having to tear a finish down and start over.

1. Changing paint type, brand etc. midway causing compatibility issues. (guilty)

2. Rushing things - not allowing paint to cure properly before continuing to next step. (guilty)

3. Sand thru on dye job , poly clearcoat etc. - too aggressive technique(s), too coarse sandpaper, not enough paint / clearcoat buildup. (very guilty)

4. Spraying / curing during improper atmospheric conditions - too hot, too cold, too windy, too dusty. (guilty)

5. Just plain clumsiness - dropping a freshly painted guitar on the carpet and/or in the dirt (not guilty but seen both here)

- laying guitar that hasn't totally cured on a textured surface for a length of time (guilty)

Those are just a few and I'm sure there are many more that people could add. It all depends on how much of a perfectionist you are. There is lots of the 'ol "thats good enuf" attitude to go around. I've been to the point where I would just STOP a particular project until I was in a better mood to tackle it and resolve the issues 6 months later.