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Es-335 Design


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As the school year is getting closer, and I'll soon have access to woodshop tools, and a professional woodworker for help, I'm obviously going to use this as an oportunity to put another guitar together. In this case, I have a couple ideas. One of them is the V-drop I posted earlier:

v-droppaint.jpg

Another is a straight copy of the Ibanez 8-string, but the last, and defintely most ambitious, would be an es-335 copy. I really want one, after playing on a couple at guitar center the other day, and I want to know if anyone else has attempted to build one. Any comments are appreciated.

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Look up a book called 'Making a Laminated Hollowbody Electric Guitar', written by Jim English. Probably my next addition to my bookshelf, just because. Now, I've never done this, or laminated any tops, but it is possible. You could even do it with solid woods, but that'll give you a different vibe than a proper ES (which, due to the lams, is stiffer, less resonant, more feedback resistant). I've built plenty of chambered hollowbodies with carved tops (and backs), but no 335. If you want to carve, give Benedetto's archtop book a look.

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I just drew this up, and yes, I know, I need a full scale drawing, bu for right now i think this looks cool:

og-335.jpg

I drew it and scanned it, and it came through way too light, so i had to sharpen it a lot. You get the general idea tho. It's the same shape as my current project, which is a bass.

Edited by the telecaster kid
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As a concept, a 335 with pointy horns is just fine. Your sketch, though, is sketchy. The horns are WAY too big for that body! If I remember, your bass had similar geometry issues. You need to look carefully at the guitars you hope to emulate, as shapes rather than concepts-- (eg. draw lines on photocopies, etc... check out the waist-body ratios, etc. rather than, "body with extended horns") then use a vector-drawing program (Inkscape is free!) or CAD if you feel up to it, to make clean lines and a true "plan". Then blow it up to full-scale with pieced-together 8.5"X11 if you must, or a local print shop if you can find one.

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As a concept, a 335 with pointy horns is just fine. Your sketch, though, is sketchy. The horns are WAY too big for that body! If I remember, your bass had similar geometry issues. You need to look carefully at the guitars you hope to emulate, as shapes rather than concepts-- (eg. draw lines on photocopies, etc... check out the waist-body ratios, etc. rather than, "body with extended horns") then use a vector-drawing program (Inkscape is free!) or CAD if you feel up to it, to make clean lines and a true "plan". Then blow it up to full-scale with pieced-together 8.5"X11 if you must, or a local print shop if you can find one.

The big horns feel fine on my bass, though I'm not finished so you may be quite right.

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I'm sure they "feel" fine... but I'm more concerned with the appearance.

In addition to the concern already raised, the widest point of the horns is wider than the widest point of the lower bouts. There might be times when somebody breaks convention and makes it work; however, since your guitar is evoking the 335, it ends up looking way out of place. And to even an untrained eye, the end result simply won't "look" right. Now, it's a hand-sketch, so certain things are forgiveable-- but your upper cutaway is smaller and shallower than the lower one. This is a second break with tradition that further has the viewer notice something's not right. On a 335, they would be symmetrical. Even if you're marrying a Jerry Garcia-type guitar to a 335, the cutaways are offset but a similar size.

You're a committed kinda guy. In the short time you've been here, you've begun a build, made a repair attempt, and have fielded a few different designs. But you're also showing that you're not one for patience (some might say it's a function of your youth, but we've had young patient builders here!) or details. I'd love to see that energy focused into some research into guitar design as well as approaches relying on carefully-laid plans (using vector draw/CAD), templates, etc.

I'm not trying to pick on you, I'm trying to push you toward excellence. :D

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See, that's getting there. Since it's just an MS paint mockup, it's hard to say-- I'm sure you'd make the horns more alike to the Garcia one and it'd look even better. But already this is an improvement. On the other hand, I like the "angular" bouts of your first mockup, too-- makes it even more of a departure from typical 335. You keep working at it, and you'll get there for sure. But don't forget to make a full-scale drawing using the right tools.

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Ah, cool. Inkscape is a vector-draw program, so eventually you'll be able to use the pen tool to draw smooth bezier curves, as well as to copy segments, flip them, and add them to the opposite side (making certain elements symmetrical). You're still thinking in "bitmap" terms, but once you switch to "illustration" (vector-drawing) methods, you'll have a bunch of new tools at your disposal. :D

That latest one is even more 335-ish, as you say. Only you can decide how much of a "tribute" to that style it's going to be, and how many of your original touches you're going to add in.

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Are 335's bent wood sides (like a traditional acoustic) or cut out of solid pieces (akin to how a chambered solid body is made?) I can see that impacting the design, and certainly something to keep in mind. (Although joining multiple pieces over a corner block, like some mandolins have is certainly an option)

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Alright, this may come as a dissapointment to some, but I've decided not to do a hollowbody. This isn't cause I don't think i can do it, well, not completely why, it's cause my dad just dropped an atom bomb on me. It turns out the old guy's had a 1972 fender Starcaster in the basement since the eighties. For those who don't know what it is, this is one:

kitara01_velika.jpg

Since he let's me play it, I no longer need a hollowbody. So now I have no idea of what I'm doing for woodshop. I'm not dissapointed though, the starcaster is unbelievable.

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Look up a book called 'Making a Laminated Hollowbody Electric Guitar', written by Jim English. Probably my next addition to my bookshelf, just because.

I have actually bought this book and I really didn't find it worth the money at all. For every detailed aspect of the build he references the Benedetto book by page number. The only new addition to the book is about making a mold and is very poor. He takes an old Guild and makes a plaster negative from it (without any barrier I might add). After making a positive he then demonstrates the use of his 'press'. It's his 1/2 ton Ford van which he drives on top of the mold. Not that this wouldn't work but...

About the only thing that was interesting were the pictures of his internal bracing. On one of them there is a longitudinal brace connecting (and rabbeting into) the neck and tail blocks. On another there were parallel braces with cross pieces in between the pickup routes for support. I think these braces were on the same instrument. I gave the book away so I can't double check.

I would suggest to just stick with the Benedetto book since he covers everything but the laminated top. To do this either make a 2 part mold for a mechanical press (clamps would work) or just carve a positive and use a vacuum press. In a couple of months I will be giving the veneer press option a try. It is not much different than the veneer topped Dragonfly I did a while back. I have some amazing figured Pau Ferro and for the core some 15" wide maple veneer that is just itching to become a laminated hollowbody.

~David

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That's not his particular starcaster, just an example of one. I'd like to see pics of the real deal! Is it blonde like the one you posted, or sun/tobacco-burst? Very cool guitars, IMO.

For your future ideas, though-- even if you're doing a 335-ish guitar, there's no reason you couldn't "just" do it as a chambered solidbody. Heck, BB King's Lucille IS a solidbody guitar, which to me is brutally insane. No, it's not the same thing at all... a chambered solidbody and an archtop-style guitar with bent sides are very different things. But you COULD approach it as a solidbody if it's mainly the aesthetic that you're after. That's the approach I'm taking with my 335-based project that's been... stalled... for a couple of years now.

Greg

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