fryovanni Posted November 29, 2007 Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 thanks a lot man, i think i get whats going on perfectly now, what type of sand paper should i put on my discs do you think? and how much actually sanding needs to be done if the shape is already their from the bracing. Another thing iv want to know is, if its a good idea to get the shape of the bracing template from sanding a piece of wood down on the radius board with sand paper, and then use the copy router bit to make a copy of it that has a straight edge instead of a curved one because of the spherical shape of the dish Most people use 60-80 grit on the dish. You can buy a 24" round sanding disk from Blues creek guitars for about $18 link You can use the template you made to create your sanding dish (take one of the router rails) and transpose that to the brace shaping jig. This is a simple and reliable way to match the two. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carousel182 Posted November 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 (edited) err double post didnt think this wen through can they be deleted Edited November 29, 2007 by carousel182 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carousel182 Posted November 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 wow that site has a lot of stuff so what specialized tools will i need for bending the sides? the bending pipe and one of those steel sheets? or will i also need a heating blanket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted November 29, 2007 Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 wow that site has a lot of stuff so what specialized tools will i need for bending the sides? the bending pipe and one of those steel sheets? or will i also need a heating blanket John Hall is a wonderful dealer, and if you have questions I think you will find he is extreamly helpful and a super nice fella. He has several nice tutorials on how to go about many tasks. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattia Posted November 29, 2007 Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 A reccomendation: Glue a second layer of MDF (same thickness) to the back of the dish for added stability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted November 29, 2007 Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 A reccomendation: Glue a second layer of MDF (same thickness) to the back of the dish for added stability. Shoot yes, sorry I didn't catch that. Good call Mattia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carousel182 Posted November 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 what type of rods are good for go-bars, I've searched and all I've found were those kite making rods. I have no idea if i could get those locally, are their any other alternatives? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted November 29, 2007 Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 Fiberglass rods are what you are after. If you have trouble finding them, you can just buy them from John-link. At about $2 each from John you are not going to save much buying locally, so don't fight looking too much, and certainly don't travel a great distance to shop. The price of gas is sure to kill any savings you may have seen from a local purchase. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carousel182 Posted November 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 (edited) Ah okay, what length should i be looking at for a stewmac sized go bar system. also is 15 enough for one guitar. is it necessary that i do 4 layers of plywood for the bottom and 2 for the top as stewmac suggests Edited November 29, 2007 by carousel182 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted November 29, 2007 Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 John sells 24", StewMac sells 24" (but at more than twice the price per bar).Stew Mac Link. 15 should be enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carousel182 Posted November 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 about wood, since I'm just a beginner and itll probably take me a few tries to get things right , and also the fact that i have all the time in the world, do you think their is any place online where i can get a piece of wood to resaw and get tops out of, it seems like it would be much cheaper. also i have a large laguna bandsaw, and pretty much everything that id need to make a task like that easy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted November 30, 2007 Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 about wood, since I'm just a beginner and itll probably take me a few tries to get things right , and also the fact that i have all the time in the world, do you think their is any place online where i can get a piece of wood to resaw and get tops out of, it seems like it would be much cheaper. also i have a large laguna bandsaw, and pretty much everything that id need to make a task like that easy Yes, There are places that sell billets. If you know what you are looking for you can pick a billet that would have good potential. The cost of billets reflects that potential quality. when you cut a billet you never know for sure what will be inside so there is an element of risk, there is also the element of risk involved every time you resaw(if the cut does not go well). You need to also be aware of who you are buying from, as many dealers out there do not cut billets from split wood, and you may not have any garentee as to the degree of runnout. Personally I have been cutting and resawing wood for a quite a while and have experience selecting and handling wood. So my risk is less. I also often invest in large quantity. For these reasons I resaw all my own stock. If you are just starting and trying to learn, it may or may not be the best choice. If I was going to make a suggestion, it would be to resaw your back and side sets(less risk, and you have more to save generally), and forget about the soundboard stock until you are up to speed. You really should not be buying expensive soundboards right now anyway, and you won't get much of a break on the price of student grade sets cutting and drying them yourself. Right now you should be looking at $15-$25(depending on the type of wood) clean student soundboards, Higher grade boards can be much more expensive, but higher grade boards are generally visually superior as opposed to structurally superior (not to say there are not exceptions). Avoid regular wood dealers and or be cautious of Ebay dealers that you do not know. I have checked with several that sell $6-15 soundboards. Asking them questions regarding how they process the wood, and they are cutting lumber or are not controlling runnout (by using more expensive split wood). That is not a bargain, as wood that has better than 2 degrees runnout does beging to have weaker structural properties. You shoudl be paying Lumber prices if you are buying cut lumber like that. Peace,Rich P.S. If you are really sure you want to try your hand at soundboard resawing, drop me a PM, and I will steer you in the right direction, and help you with what to look for, how to process, how much to pay vs grade and so on and so forth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carousel182 Posted December 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2007 (edited) http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r191/st...17/DSC_0046.jpg http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r191/st...17/DSC_0047.jpg I made my mold today. It's very solid and didn't take too long to do. its an MDF template, 3" of pine and another mdf template. I cant wait to get started with this, i only have a few more jigs to make. sorry for the fuzzy pictures Edited December 2, 2007 by carousel182 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted December 3, 2007 Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r191/st...17/DSC_0046.jpg http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r191/st...17/DSC_0047.jpg I made my mold today. It's very solid and didn't take too long to do. its an MDF template, 3" of pine and another mdf template. I cant wait to get started with this, i only have a few more jigs to make. sorry for the fuzzy pictures Two questions, One can you seperate the mold easily to get the guitar out without tearing up the sides? Two, is it a total of 4.5" thick? if so you do understand you will have to release and reset the sides to be able to work the opposite side (say you want to work the back side kerfed lining and position the rim, when you finish and are ready to attach the top side kerfed lining, you will have to loosen the rim and adjust). A mold that was say 2.5" tall would allow you access to both sides without ever resetting it. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carousel182 Posted December 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 i just followed the plan in the book. you can separate it by taking the two end pieces off. its 4.5' thick. I'm not so sure i understand what your saying about the kerfed lining when i want it to stick out I'm going to position a deck inside of the mold that keeps the rim up. The reason i made it that tall was to give it more support was so that i could give the heel block and end block more support during gluing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnowGTR Posted December 3, 2007 Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 After the kerfs linings are glued on you will need to sand them to the proper shape to match the dome shape of your top and back. I use the mold to hold the sides while I perform this operation. I mount a pivot point inside the mould area and use the appropriate dish to shape the linings by rotating it on the pivot point. Your mold has a lot of excess on the out side that may interfere with the dish. If I ever get back in my shop, I’ll take some pics. By then I am sure someone will explain it better or have another way of doing this. I have seen in an earlier post for a link to get 24” sand paper to place in the dish. I’ve been gluing pieces of paper to cover the field and that has its problems. Thanks for the tip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carousel182 Posted December 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2007 Thanks for the tip, I understand what you mean. I will cut the rim mold closer so i don't have problems with the mold interfering with the dish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodWood Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 For the gobar deck, I used one 3/4 plywood, and 2x3 X braces across the tops. Works just fine, as I dont have more than 15 in use at one time. 4 and 2 layers of ply seems like over kill to me. I dont do all the braces at the same time though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carousel182 Posted December 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 yea man, i know what you mean i was thinking that. today all i did was make the jig for tapering the sides(and the things that sit inside the mold that raise the sides up so that you can work on them.) tomorrow I'm going to make the bending iron. Does anyone have any ideas for how to make one. i was thinking just using a torch on tube but now I'm wondering if theirs a decent way to make an electric one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted December 4, 2007 Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 My bending pipe uses an electric charcoal starter (as in BBQ charcoal). I picked it up at Ace hardware for $15-20 (can't remember exactly). It is powerful enough to keep the temp. up. I also made sure to use a heavy wall steel pipe that helps keep the heat even once it is at temp. (a drop of water should dance a spatter when dropped on the pipe). I will give one more shot at a bending blanket as a suggestion. I looked on MSC direct and it looks like they do not sell the size we were looking for the other day. Here is a link to Omega-Omega heating blankets -SRMU020636 $67.70 6" x 36" without PSA . Here is a site I stumbled across when looking for that link-link I don't find all the methods shown to be what I would prefer for my building, but it never hurts to look at how others do things.-Index page for the above link Just in case you have not happened across Kathy's site, follow this link and look around. LOTS of great information-Kathy Matsushita's Page Peace,Rich Keep up the good work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carousel182 Posted December 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2007 Thanks for the idea Rich, im just wondering, is their any way that you can control the heat of the pipe with the charcoal starter? or is full temperature the right temperature. Also, how much does the hearing blanket help actually? could i do without it for my first attempt and if it doesnt work just buy one or am i just being cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 Thanks for the idea Rich, im just wondering, is their any way that you can control the heat of the pipe with the charcoal starter? or is full temperature the right temperature. Also, how much does the hearing blanket help actually? could i do without it for my first attempt and if it doesnt work just buy one or am i just being cheap. My pipe and charcoal starter maintains its heat pretty well. Usually the problem is not so much overheatng as much as the source keeping up. If you use thin pipe and a marginal heat source you will have to stop and wait for it to heat back up. If you use a thin pipe and a strong heat source you may need to regulate it. No matter what you don't want an underpowered heat source, because it will make it really hard to get even bending (you will wind up with a lot more wobble in the sides). How much does a heat blanket help actually? A LOT. Much better control, much more even heating, much more stable for your sides(less chance of breakage), you can use less water, you will have much smoother sides (until you become very skilled with a pipe), Repeatability is great (for binding, and matching sides), requires less time to make your bends. I started with both pipe and a Fox style bender with bulbs. I added a heat gun to my Fox bender set up when I started doing my tighter cutoways. I now use two heating blankets as a heat source, and although I can make any of these methods work, heat blankets are by far the fastest, most reliable and efficient method. I recommend starting with a heat blanket and simple side form with basic clamps(simple cheap and easy), because the cost is not much different in these set-ups, granted if you have a hunk of pipe already and clamp it to a block of wood and already have a propane torch you can get right to practicing your bending. You will need to bend a few practice sets to get clean bends(not wobbled) that hold. In the end I think you will find cracking one set, or possibly the practice sets you go through, or possible adjusting if you get wobbles in your sides(or binding) may just make the pipe method expensive if you don't pick up on the technique quickly. Go with what you feel you want to use. Some people believe they really want to learn the pipe technique first (and that is cool), but don't make your choice based on cost. Pipe, bulbs and bulb/heat gun are equally expensive in short order. Sometimes a heat blanket will prove to be the cheapest method of all your options (when you take into acount all factors). Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carousel182 Posted December 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 (edited) i get what your saying, ive already cut 2 sets of sides out of plain soft maple that i will be using as practice tommorow. i plan on just using a pipe and torch. and ill see what i can do from there. I've heard soaking the sides in a bath tub over night increases their flexibility.. is this true? Also if i can't get a good bend with just the pipe im going to get the heating blanket definately. I kind of want to just get a hands on idea of how this all will work. Edited December 5, 2007 by carousel182 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fryovanni Posted December 5, 2007 Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 i get what your saying, ive already cut 2 sets of sides out of plain soft maple that i will be using as practice tommorow. i plan on just using a pipe and torch. and ill see what i can do from there. I've heard soaking the sides in a bath tub over night increases their flexibility.. is this true? Also if i can't get a good bend with just the pipe im going to get the heating blanket definately. I kind of want to just get a hands on idea of how this all will work. How much soaking for pipe bending depends on the type of wood and whether or not it is figured(you don't want to use as much water on figured). Have a look over at Stewmacs information pages, I think they offer some recommendations. I have been trying to keep moisture down to a minimum on my bending for the last few years(some woods I add no water at all), but pipe bending is slower and you have to use more water to get the heat transfer. Give it a go and see how it works out for you. Remember to trust how flexable the wood feels as you bend (it will become very flexable at the right temp). Pipe bending more feel and less formula if you know what I mean. Peace,Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carousel182 Posted December 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2007 theirs my practice wood, soft maple. i'm gonna slice up another set too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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