Wiring Problem

[thatoneguy]

I just built a guitar, and i want to install the pickups, but i cant seem to find a way to make it work. i have a duncan designed hb103 neck pickup which sounds georgeous, and a seymour duncan dimebucker bridge pickup. I want to wire it to one volume and a 3way selector. The way i want to wire it is; position 1:bridge humbucker, position 2:the 2 inner coils, and position 3:neck humbucker. I cannot find any wiring diagrams for this. The guitar has a floyde rose. Can anyone help???

[GregP]

Heya,

You'll have to get a 4-pole switch if you want to do a coil split all on the same switch. To be honest, I've never looked for an LP-style (toggle) 3-way that will do the trick, but I'm sure I've seen 3-way blade switches that are multi-pole. The other thing is that you need both pickups to be 4-conductor (4 wires) in order to do coil-splitting.

My personal recommendation?

Use a push-pull knob for the volume. Or even better, someone mentioned something about a "push-push" (no fussing around trying to dig your fingers under the knob) pot, but I can't remember where they were sourced from. So, the end result (with either push-push or push-pull) is that you have a "hidden" switch to split the coils, and then use your 3-way as normal. Even though you don't really WANT the single neck and single bridge (or neck and bridge both as humbucker together) options, they'll be there. It's not QUITE as elegant as what you're describing, but it adds no additional *visible* switches to your setup.

If that's not a good fall-back plan or the idea of a push-push is still too intrusive, I'll see if I can help you find the right kind of switch online-- I just need to know if both pickups are 4-conductor, and if it's a blade or toggle switch that you want.

Greg

[edit: I couldn't help myself so I did a quick Google. Our own Universal Jems (host of Project Guitar) carries such a thing: http://www.universaljems.com/cart/switches.htm scroll down to find EP-1111, 2nd one up from before the Mini-Switches list]

[thatoneguy]

thats really good stuff greg, but not exactly what im lookin for. Its just like an old john petrucci ibanez. 3way blade with the center position on the 2 inner coils, but the problem is the wiring. I dont know how to wire it. Ive been told it can be done on a stock 3way toggle with no push/pull pots. Both humbuckers have green red white black and ground wires. I heard something about attaching the red and white wires from both pickups to the center piece of the toggle and it will work. But i have no idea how to wire it. My buddy has a jackson rx10d rhoads and it has the hb103's and it is wired like ive never seen before. there are ground wires going to screws under the pickups. is it supposed to be this way, or is this some trick to get you to go to a guitar shop and have them work on it? I just need to know how to wire the guitar up with the hb103. I think i may be going crazy.

[GregP]

I'm not particularly familiar with standard toggles, but my impression at least is that it can NOT be done. I'll help you find out for sure. I think that with a 3 way *blade*, the same holds true and you'll still want a 4-pole switch. I've never heard of the possibility of cutting coils with a standard 3-way switch. That doesn't mean it's not possible, but when I was looking for information on one of my own builds (which had only a single-coil and a humbucker, mind you, so slightly different), I had to go with 4-pole.

Greg

[GregP]

http://www.projectguitar.com/ref/jpmwire.htm

Dunno how accurate this is-- never tested it. But it seems to use a standard switch. Based on how you called it a "Petrucci" wiring scheme, Google turned up plenty enough of people who seemed to be confirming that indeed, a standard switch would be up to the task.

[thatoneguy]

well ive been trying to gather information on it for 2 weeks, ive been trying new things and trying to wire the guitar. Ive used the wiring diagram for 2 humbuckers and 1 volume with a 3way switch from seymour duncan, and i am very positive it is done right, but no sound. The pickups are grounded properly and the volume switch and the 3way are fine. I just cant get the pickups to work. This is just standard wiring, nothing special, so i guess i better get that right first. How do u wire 2 humbuckers, 1 volume and a 3way switch? i will try to find an old john petrucci wiring diagram for the split coil.

[GregP]

Lots of diagrams around for standard 3-way wiring. Weird that you're not getting ANY sound, though. Since you've already been at it for 2 weeks, it seems to me that you wouldn't mind another day or two of full-on trouble-shooting if the end result will be what you want. Someone might recommend a more optimal method of trouble-shooting, but my personal attack would be:

1. Make sure your colours are sorted out. Different companies use different colours for their wires. If you just go by colour alone, you'll be screwed. You have to find out how they correspond. For example, what is a "red" wire for Duncan corresponds to a "green" wire for DiMarzio. http://www.guitarelectronics.com/category/...ckupcolorcodes/ Once you've got your colours straightened out, *I* (because I'm a bit weak at keeping these things straight) would re-draw or use a marker to trace over the exisiting diagram with the correct colours.

2. Before desoldering anything, double-check everything, and do it as an "idiot" check-- pretend that you haven't seen it a million times already and check each and every lug-- rotate your diagrams to match the switch orientation.

3. Check continuity of electronics from point-to-point. You might find a link that's not being made, axing the whole shebang at once. Cheap multimeters will do the job and can be had for $10-15... though there are certainly nice ones. I don't know how to measure parts very well but I mainly just wanted to use it for continuity checks, so I got one with an "audible" option. Being able to hear that "beep" when you complete a circuit is handy. I imagine most multimeters HAVE this, but I saw one or two without.

4. Normally I've found that this only results in excess hum rather than "no signal", but check your output jack. Twice out of 10 or so rewires, I've reversed these... which is all a part of item #2 above, but is worth mentioning because I thought that the jack was a "no brainer" and didn't bother rechecking it.

I can't help but wonder if between 1 and 2, you'll be sorted out. But if not:

5. Desolder and check that each individual component is working. Start with the pickups. You'll need a multimeter.

[thatoneguy]

i am soldering right now. how i love the smell of fresh solder. Can you get cancer from this stuff? i am wiring it straight right now

i have my multimeter,

[GregP]

Best of luck with it all. I'm sure you'll get it working with some perseverance. I can't remember a wiring job EVER working for me with no fuss whatsoever.

Solder used to be available with relatively high lead content, and were considered as potential carcinogens. I don't think lead-free solder is much of a health risk, but I've never looked into it. One thing I know for sure-- I wouldn't voluntarily inhale tonnes of that stuff. Anything with a slightly unnatural (but I agree, somewhat "good", though, eh?) smell to it can't possibly be good in large doses.

[thatoneguy]

ive rewired it 3 times over and checked it all 3 times, just buzzing sound,i cant help but notice that these pickups have an unusually large ground wire, im beggining to wonder if its even a ground wire. The wire is on the hb103

[thatoneguy]

heres the deal, it has no sound when the volume is off, but when i turn it from bout 3 to 7 there is buzz, but the 8 to 10 there is nothing again, is this a sign?

[GregP]

It's surely a sign of something.

I would expect there to be no sound when the volume is off. Interesting that the buzz intensifies throughout the middle...which hints at the pot being wired incorrectly. What you're describing is in general symptomatic of 'incorrect wiring', but I'm running low on suggestions. Did you confirm the colours of the wires, like on my suggestion #1?

Also, sometimes the lugs of your switch are in "reverse" depending on the maker of the switch. One of your poles (set of lugs) might be the reverse of what you expect from your diagram. That happened to me on my lap steel build. What I thought was the 0 1 2 3 lugs were actually 0 3 2 1 or something like that.

[thatoneguy]

everything is where its supposed to be, the only thing i can come up with is that all the wires soldered to the back of the pot, one must have a foul connection

[GregP]

Or even worse, they're all aggragating to that one spot (the back of the pot) and then the signal return isn't making it to ground. That would explain no noize.

I don't know if it's the solution you need, but if you're going to desolder and rewire anyhow, I suggest looking into "star-grounding"-- it's a guaranteed way to make sure you have no ground loops and tick the "did I ground everything properly?" question off the list. Guitarnuts.com (guitarnutz.com?) has a good star-grounding tutorial.

[thatoneguy]

when i touch the multimeter to both coils of the bridge pickup, i get a 2 reading. this is because the probes are shorted to each other. but when i touch each probe to the neck pickup i get nothing, y is this?

[GregP]

Sorry, that's out of my domain of expertise. I'd have to do the same thing as you-- start Googling to make sure I'm doing it right. But since I'm already here, we can try mucking about-->

1. IF you're doing it right and you're getting a reading of zero, then that pickup is DOA. Which might help explain why stuff isn't working in general.

2. Not sure what you mean about the probes being shorted. If you're doing it right, there shouldn't be a short-- the probes will be completing a circuit with the multimeter in the middle. 2 isn't much resistance... which unit of measurement are you setting it to? "2" could be almost anything!

FWIW, if you're literally touching the probes to the coils, you're not doing it right. They have to be on either end of the wires. I just don't know which ones in your case. Unless you want to test each coil individually, you'll need to twist a pair of them together (which feeds the north into the south or vice-versa) and then the remaining 2 should each be touching a probe. I just don't know how which wires fit into the equation. Since I'm an impatient guy, I'd probably just start testing pairs of wires to see if "something" appears. But that's not really the "right" way to do it. The "right" way would be to look at a chart like the one I linked to in one of my first responses, to figure out how to set up your test scenario.

[thatoneguy]

the multimeter only has a setting of 1k ohms. When i touch the probes together it reads 2. So, when i touch the probes to both north and south polarities of the bridge humbucher, it reads a 2, but when i touch the probes to the neck pickup i get nothing. This has to mean i either have it wired wrong or i have a dead pickup. Which brings me to this. My buddy has a guitar with these pickups in a stock configuration, but the pickups arent gro9unded like they usually are. There is a wire going from a grounded screw in the control cavity to a screw directly below the pickup in the pickup cavity.there are alot of ground wires in the control cavity that seem useless. But, maybe this is where im wrong. It looks like these pickups have to be grounded a special way. Have you ever seen anything like this? Im about to give up and go the easy way out, buy some emg's with the quick connect wires...

Edited December 11, 2007 by thatoneguy