Xanthus Posted August 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 .......huh. Well, interesting developments in my predicament. For kicks, I disconnected the killswitch from the equation to see what I got. Well, the hum is still there, but here's the thing. It gets quieter when I touch the tuners, bridge, strings and such. It gets LOUDER when I touch any electronics. Knobs, switch screws, and the washer around the killswitch. Even though the killswitch isn't connected. O_o My dad and I are utterly stumped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpcrash Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 Uhhh..... yeah...... Just to rule it out - the telephones in your house aren't real scratchy are they? Just thinking maybe house wiring through amp causing extra noise? Just a thought and keeping this post at the top of the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanthus Posted August 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 My other guitars play fine through the amp, so I don't think so. Our phones are known to futz out, quality-wise, from time to time, but I never noticed any issues with my amps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert_the_damned Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 .......huh. Well, interesting developments in my predicament. For kicks, I disconnected the killswitch from the equation to see what I got. Well, the hum is still there, but here's the thing. It gets quieter when I touch the tuners, bridge, strings and such. It gets LOUDER when I touch any electronics. Knobs, switch screws, and the washer around the killswitch. Even though the killswitch isn't connected. O_o My dad and I are utterly stumped. Sounds like there's something wrong with your grounding, sounds to me like your bridge is grounded properly (which is why the noise reduces when you touch it or anything connected to it) but it sounds like something is up with your grounding on the electronics, when you're touching the knobs its causing background noise to be sent into your signal ('cos people make pretty good antena really), so they must be seperated from the ground somehow, which seems very odd seeing as you're star grounding everything. Makes you wish you made an acoustic huh? My advice would be to re-do the whole lot (disconnect everything and do it all again), a complete pain in the ass I know but that way you should find where your dodgy connection is. You say your control cavity is small so try and wire up everything you can outside the cavity then drop it in and attach anything else (probably just the bridge ground and the pickups). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpcrash Posted August 13, 2008 Report Share Posted August 13, 2008 just a suggestion - might it be worthwhile to follow rob's suggestion having the entire works outside the cavity (grounded to bridge of course) to make sure there's nothing bumping inside. Could also isolate each lug of the pots with small pieces of posterboard or elec. tape. Just thoughts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanthus Posted August 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 15, 2008 (edited) Man, I just cannot win here. I disconnected the volume, tone, and killswitch and just plain ripped them out. Now the only thing left inside the electronics cavity is the switch. I took the ground from the bridge and tacked the other grounds and shields to it. I sent the hot and ground straight to the jack. I know this is a bad idea setup-wise, what with the painful amp popping on connect and disconnect. But I wanted to go bare bones and check EVERYTHING front-to-back. Well, I think I might need a new (read: $21 ) P switch. And I'm kinda disappointed about that. Because the hum/buzz/static hasn't stopped. In fact, I might go so far as to say that it's worse than ever now. I triple-checked to make sure there were no crossed/touching wires, no exposed wire, and there' can't possibly be any ground loops, because it's the simplest wiring setup ever. I bought the pickups new, so it's not that (I sincerely doubt). The only electronics left are the jack and switch, so it's either one of them. I'm thinking it's the switch, but I'll probably end up ordering both of them since I'm paying a ton for shipping one piece from StewMac anyways. Edited August 15, 2008 by Xanthus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted August 19, 2008 Report Share Posted August 19, 2008 I missed this thread...or was concerned about my slow hair loss...over the last 10 years! Wiring only makes it worse... Tell you what...i"ll trade if you do mine... Anyway...a link sucked me back here...but too much advice can be a dangerous thing... Well, the hum is still there, but here's the thing. It gets quieter when I touch the tuners, bridge, strings and such. It gets LOUDER when I touch any electronics. Knobs, switch screws, and the washer around the killswitch. Even though the killswitch isn't connected. O_o The first part seems to indicate that the strings, etc are grounded resulting in getting quieter as you'd expect and that the wire to bridge/string contact is good. The second part seems to indicate that the controls are some how connected to hot perhaps through a resistor or something (like a pot)...it all seems a little weird as you have observed. Do you have a multimeter to test continuity?...I find that a needle one is really good as you can see the thing swing. I have never used a P-switch...as I understand it, it is some kind of prewired selector. Do the symptoms change with pickup selector position? Is the cavity shielded? Did you mention the pickup type...now I am posting I can't see the first post! It sounds a little as if you might have the hot and grounds of the pickups reversed. This shouldn't matter except if the bare ground wire is connected to the pickups ground...test the bare wire to the pickup hot to see (also test the bare wire to the pickup wires and the case baseplate, poles. etc of the pickup...disconnect the bare wire completely and see if this helps. Something odd might be happening in the selector...as there is no details of exactly what is going on as it switches, it is possible things are being reversed about in there. So...first off, disconnect the bare wire shield from the pickups everywhere...does this fix or change anything. Test to see if it connects to the pickup metal parts (it should) or the pickup wires (it shouldn't). Test the pickup directly to the jack one at a time. A Mystery for sure and another thread here seems to be having a similar problem so you could check that out too... pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanthus Posted August 20, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2008 (edited) I'll trade, Pete. No guarantees, though I don't see how the rest of the electronics could be connected to hot... I checked the schematics more times than I can count. I could get a multimeter from my grandfather to check continuity, once I get back from the Cape. But yeah, the reason there hasn't been any updates is because I've been on vacation. I'm slated to return this weekend, either Saturday night or Sunday afternoon. I left the V to get work done at Guitar Center, so I'll pick it up the day I get back to start work again. The guy at GC filed down my nut slots, rounded the fret ends, and hammered down a few loose frets, as well as adjusted the truss rod and set up intonation. All for less than $100. I'm pleased He seems like a good guy, builds basses in his spare time; For my next build, I might send it to him to fret and dress, because I'm not going through that hassle again Back to topic....... The hum doesn't alleviate itself when I switch settings. It just sounds different. I did shield the cavity, and the pickups are a Tone Zone bridge and a PAF Pro. I doubt the hot and grounds are reversed; the wires are color-coordinated The bare and ground from the neck pickup are connected, due to the way the switch is set up. The P Switch has its own separate lug, which according to the instructions says: "On the switch there is a large silver lug attached with a screw. This is not one if the seven numbered lugs and is not used." Should I ground it? I'm thinking, since I pulled out all the electronics except for the jack and switch. Either that, or the switch is defective. I'm working through the other mystery thread slowly, as the interweb is sparse down these parts and I'm borrowing my cousin's computer. Thanks for the advice Pete, I'll check back when I can. Edited August 20, 2008 by Xanthus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanthus Posted August 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2008 (edited) So a bit of an update. Back home from the Cape, picked up the axe at guitar center. Plays beautifully. Still no sound. I soldered a leftover jack in place of the one I bought for the project. Still hum, so that means there's no jack issue. Just for refreshers, this is what we're looking at. No volume/tone/killswitch. All hots to hot and grounds to ground. If I don't get any brilliant ideas, or come up with any myself in the next few days, I'm ordering a new switch. As much as it kills...... I want to have this DONE when I move back into school next month. ::EDIT:: I just bridged the neck hot with the hot from the jack, via tiny alligator clips. The hum definitely reduced, furthering my hunch that a bad switch is to blame. Edited August 23, 2008 by Xanthus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted August 24, 2008 Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 I don't have any experience with these switch types but I am not overly keen on the concept. Basically they look to be like cheap selectors that have a circuit board on one side already set up to provide a specific set of connections. So...they look anyway...to be constructed exactly like lower quality switches with all the potential problems. One I have found with cheap pickups is the circuit board can wear and sometimes the wiper doesn't make great contact. One of the problems I have with the concept is they seem to charge more but the switch is made to do a specific thing and so not very adaptable (compared to a super switch for instance)...still it is smaller and easier to work with. As I say...I have not any experience with these specific switches, but on others often the wipers are not connecting that well and can be fixed a bit by taking them apart (not advisable if sending it back) or pushing the circuit board part a bit closer to the wiper parts...maybe some kind of cleaner in there. Hopefully the switch will isolate the problem and provide a fix...if aligator clip lead helped, then a permanent wire will be better still as these tend to attract a bit of noise... good luck with it.. pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanthus Posted August 24, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2008 (edited) I'll definitely examine the switch some more before I trash/buy a new one. It's made by Schaller, so I don't expect any shoddy quality, but I'll check it out. ::EDIT:: Took out the switch and connected the neck pickup straight to hot, grounded the green and bare, and taped off the black and white. Still humming. I'll check out the bridge pickup next, but I doubt the pickup is faulty because the noise happened even when only the bridge pickup was disconnected. And it wouldn't be the jack because I switched out the jack and the noise persists. Hooo boy is this fun ::EDIT 2:: It's not the bridge pickup either. Probing with my alligator clip attached to ground has revealed no improper grounds. Nothing alleviates this hum. I give up. Edited August 24, 2008 by Xanthus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanthus Posted August 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2008 I'm dropping off the thing at Guitar Center tomorrow, with multiple diagrams, and having a long talk with the guy while I'm there. Problem solved! I hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psw Posted August 26, 2008 Report Share Posted August 26, 2008 So...you won't be doing mine then? Good luck with it, see if you can get them to explain it, there seems to be a lot of buzz and hum around here lately...maybe it is atmospherics or something! pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanthus Posted August 26, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2008 I think you'll be fine with yours Pete, but there's no shame in cutting your control cavity a bit larger than you did Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanthus Posted August 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 27, 2008 Just giving everyone a head's up on the status of this project from hell. We're done I took it to the wiring guy at GC today and he wired it up exactly like I showed, sans killswitch. We plugged it into an amp, and bam, hum virtually eliminated. So now I'm confused. I don't THINK I had a ground loop or anything wonky going on, but ok, now I have a professional wiring job for $30. So I go home, wire up the killswitch, take it upstairs, plug in, and the hum is back. Not as bad, but still there. So now I'm very confused. I decided to A/B the new guitar with my Explorer, in the same position, setup, levels, everything. I laid the V flat down on the ground, face up, with a shirt over the strings for dampening, 3 feet away from the amp. Turned on, starts humming. Turn off, unplug V, plug Explorer, turn on amp. I've got hum. Not as bad, because of the active pickups, but still there. So the conclusion, and what may have been the issue all along: 1) I'm probably playing too close to the amp, and I have a tendency to face the amp when I play, and my halogen track lights above my desk probably don't help. 2) My amp is just noisy. So #1 I realize is a stupid, amateurish mistake. One that I'm prone to making to begin with, but ESPECIALLY prone to making when I'm vehement about there being something wrong with the guitar, and ignoring everything else going on around me. #2 I'm not sure if there's a problem. I just tried it with my noise suppressor and the guitar hum goes away, but there's still some white noise which I'm chalking up to the amp. Maybe a tube is going? I'm not sure what's a symptom of tube ills. But hey, we'll play it as it comes. Super pumped! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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