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Wiring A Killswitch?


Wigglez
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my main guitar right now is an older epiphone special 2 i gutted and rewired and replaced the pickups with just a X2N in the bridge anyways I'd like to make the controls on this guitar as simple as possible by setting it up so i only have an on/off switch on the guitar. are there any links or diagrams on how to do this? i fooled around with the soldering gun when i put in the new pickup but couldn't figure out how to make a kill switch. thanks in advance!

-Max

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my main guitar right now is an older epiphone special 2 i gutted and rewired and replaced the pickups with just a X2N in the bridge anyways I'd like to make the controls on this guitar as simple as possible by setting it up so i only have an on/off switch on the guitar. are there any links or diagrams on how to do this? i fooled around with the soldering gun when i put in the new pickup but couldn't figure out how to make a kill switch. thanks in advance!

-Max

Right first things first, soldering gun? I hope you're not using a plummers solder gun, they're really not a good idea for guitar electronics, they use a soldier with acid in it which ends up corroding electronic components.

As for wiring up a kill switch its pretty easy. If you've got an on/on switch connect the pickup output to one outer lug, ground to the other outer lug and connect the middle lug to the output jack. This way one way will connect the amp to the pickup and the other throw will connect the amp to ground (rather than connecting it to nothing which is the same as putting a lead in your amp with no guitar on it i.e. it'll buzz like mad!).

Hope this is helpful.

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my main guitar right now is an older epiphone special 2 i gutted and rewired and replaced the pickups with just a X2N in the bridge anyways I'd like to make the controls on this guitar as simple as possible by setting it up so i only have an on/off switch on the guitar. are there any links or diagrams on how to do this? i fooled around with the soldering gun when i put in the new pickup but couldn't figure out how to make a kill switch. thanks in advance!

-Max

Right first things first, soldering gun? I hope you're not using a plummers solder gun, they're really not a good idea for guitar electronics, they use a soldier with acid in it which ends up corroding electronic components.

As for wiring up a kill switch its pretty easy. If you've got an on/on switch connect the pickup output to one outer lug, ground to the other outer lug and connect the middle lug to the output jack. This way one way will connect the amp to the pickup and the other throw will connect the amp to ground (rather than connecting it to nothing which is the same as putting a lead in your amp with no guitar on it i.e. it'll buzz like mad!).

Hope this is helpful.

i wouldn't sugest to break the connection. a safer way to do it is gettin one of those on-off switches, wire the output of the guitar to one lug, and ground to the other lug. that way you wont have 'pops'.

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my main guitar right now is an older epiphone special 2 i gutted and rewired and replaced the pickups with just a X2N in the bridge anyways I'd like to make the controls on this guitar as simple as possible by setting it up so i only have an on/off switch on the guitar. are there any links or diagrams on how to do this? i fooled around with the soldering gun when i put in the new pickup but couldn't figure out how to make a kill switch. thanks in advance!

-Max

Right first things first, soldering gun? I hope you're not using a plummers solder gun, they're really not a good idea for guitar electronics, they use a soldier with acid in it which ends up corroding electronic components.

As for wiring up a kill switch its pretty easy. If you've got an on/on switch connect the pickup output to one outer lug, ground to the other outer lug and connect the middle lug to the output jack. This way one way will connect the amp to the pickup and the other throw will connect the amp to ground (rather than connecting it to nothing which is the same as putting a lead in your amp with no guitar on it i.e. it'll buzz like mad!).

Hope this is helpful.

i wouldn't sugest to break the connection. a safer way to do it is gettin one of those on-off switches, wire the output of the guitar to one lug, and ground to the other lug. that way you wont have 'pops'.

thanks guys! no i am not using a plumber grade soldering iron, i've got a decent quality electronics grade one. both these responses sound great! i'm going to try Robert's idea first since i already have my old 3 way switch laying around. but if it makes bad popping noises then i'll switch to an on/off switch. thanks again!

Edited by Wigglez
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thanks guys! no i am not using a plumber grade soldering iron, i've got a decent quality electronics grade one. both these responses sound great! i'm going to try Robert's idea first since i already have my old 3 way switch laying around. but if it makes bad popping noises then i'll switch to an on/off switch. thanks again!

Ah good just worried by the mentioning of 'soldering gun' :D I think Anti-Idiot's way will work better tbh, not quite sure what I was thinking when I was writing my suggetion :D Which might pop a bit, probably no more than a pickup sellector when changing pickups (if the on/on is a make-before-break type) I'm not sure (don't use kill switches just use my vol pot or volume pedal!).

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Lots of people wire the toggle as a kill...that is how Townsend for the Who did it by turning down the volume on one pickup and switching back and forth. However, different switches work in different ways. I did one recently with a normally open (N.O.) push button simply wiring the ground and hot to this, when pushed it shorts out the guitar and so turns it off. You don't have to disconnect any existing wiring, just take a line from the hot and ground (say from the jack or pot) and connect it to the switch...push the button and it is dead!

i wouldn't sugest to break the connection. a safer way to do it is gettin one of those on-off switches, wire the output of the guitar to one lug, and ground to the other lug. that way you wont have 'pops'.

Or what he said! Good response

Pete

Ps...for diagrams, etc...use the search function...

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Lots of people wire the toggle as a kill...that is how Townsend for the Who did it by turning down the volume on one pickup and switching back and forth. However, different switches work in different ways. I did one recently with a normally open (N.O.) push button simply wiring the ground and hot to this, when pushed it shorts out the guitar and so turns it off. You don't have to disconnect any existing wiring, just take a line from the hot and ground (say from the jack or pot) and connect it to the switch...push the button and it is dead!

i wouldn't sugest to break the connection. a safer way to do it is gettin one of those on-off switches, wire the output of the guitar to one lug, and ground to the other lug. that way you wont have 'pops'.

Or what he said! Good response

Pete

Ps...for diagrams, etc...use the search function...

hey Pete, your telecaster looks amazing, do ya have more pics? you have (almost) all that i need: sustainer, a kahler, killswitch; i think the only thing i'd miss would be the series/parallel switches.

and Robert, Seymour Duncan has this diagram and it is basically what you said. i just tried to avoid a big bad pop situation.

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So...what do you reckon...GOTM?

OK...here is my new version of a kill switch for the blueteleful1...

bluetelekill2.jpgbluetelekill1.jpg

(someone needs to give me some photography tips!...and some recording as well so you can hear this thing)...

In the normal photo and in real life you can't really see it, in the over exposed flash version you can see how small it is...the switch that is.

i think the only thing i'd miss would be the series/parallel switches.

Funny you should mention that...I have no plans at all for those! This guitar has three very good and unique sounds with the selector and by pulling up on the volume control an extra funky "in between strat-like" quacky out of phase sound in the middle position. In addition the sustainer drive control operates my own "secret circuit" that gives a little distorted edge and "wild drive" at extreme settings and pulling that knob up the fabulous world of automatic screaming harmonic drive...

And you want a series/parallel switch!!! :D There's just no pleasing some people :D how would I fit all that into a tele without modification and get a battery in there as well!!!!

Seriously...a lot of people want a lot more than they need or would practically use. A few great sounds easy to get to is more than enough. Too much and you need a pilot's license to play the thing.

...

Thanks for the compliments, I am really proud of how it turned out and some of the features I was able to get into it without going overboard.

The kill switch I have to admit was a last minute afterthought...because I could! In fact, it came about because of a project I did in collaboration with a builder in the USA that hope works out ok once it is all installed! I built two kill switches of different types and invented my own special "maim" switch... A switch that although not killing the signal, seriously messes it up!

Actually, the maim switch is like a kill switch but instead of cutting the signal, it switches the tone pot between extremes effectively...so it goes from full to treble cut but with a very small capacitor chosen to maximise the effect...almost a wha like sound...just another variation...errr...because I could! As far as I know, I don't think anyone has done that before so if you do, credit where credit is due...ta!

A kill switch is not something I ever really use, but since it is there, I have been using it a bit. It is kind of neat with the sustainer because the sustainer will play the notes...

OMG...GREAT CHUNKS OF ICE ARE FALLING FROM THE SKY!!!! IN AUSTRALIA...will you guys across the pacific cut back on the global warming, this is getting ridiculous...I'm not kidding, there was snow at 400m this morning in Melbourne in spring...we shouldn't have snow like...ever! Don't make me come over there!

OK...it's stopping now...brrrrr...that's freezing!

...that's right, the sustainer plays the notes so you could bang out a cool morse code stutter effect. Of course this unseasonally cold weather makes it all the easier to do that. However, when summer comes I expect we will be back up to 45C degrees and be two sweaty to find the switch.

The switch is absolutely tiny and is held on along with the LED with a piece of 3mm MDF that also works as a pot spacer so is held in place by the screwing on of the volume pot. The switch is a tiny SMD switch that I had lying the round, the tiny LED was stolen from pen that changed colors and was cheaper than a blue LED on it's own.

Ok...I better see if anything else falls from the sky...what's next!

pete

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So...what do you reckon...GOTM?

Show us the whole thing, so far we've only seen 

controls and a bridge :D

(someone needs to give me some photography tips!...and some recording as well so you can hear this thing)...

Try taking some pics outside in natural light. That should help. As for the recording, that can be done in any light.

Actually, the maim switch is like a kill switch but instead of cutting the signal, it switches the tone pot between extremes effectively...so it goes from full to treble cut but with a very small capacitor chosen to maximise the effect...almost a wha like sound...just another variation...errr...because I could! As far as I know, I don't think anyone has done that before so if you do, credit where credit is due...ta!

A kill switch is not something I ever really use, but since it is there, I have been using it a bit. It is kind of neat with the sustainer because the sustainer will play the notes...

Kewl... So where is the maim switch? Have I missed it, or have you been keeping it hush hush up until now?

OMG...GREAT CHUNKS OF ICE ARE FALLING FROM THE SKY!!!! IN AUSTRALIA...will you guys across the pacific cut back on the global warming, this is getting ridiculous...I'm not kidding, there was snow at 400m this morning in Melbourne in spring...we shouldn't have snow like...ever! Don't make me come over there!

I know! Even all the way up in Wollongong they had snow recently... I moved to Sydney from Norway thinking it would be summer all year, and then this? I want my money back!

Ok...I better see if anything else falls from the sky...what's next!

Guitars! Guitars! Guitars! Plz?

Anyhow...

SO! Are we going to get to see full pics soon, or what?

Heggis

Edited by heggis
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Here's a teaser...I will try and do some glamour photos (when we get some natural light!!) and do a proper thread...

blueteleful1.jpg

Not the most flattering and the colour is all wrong...much lighter blue and blond neck...

As for the "Maim" switch idea. I am not a big fan of the "Kill Switch" thing myself but maybe now I have one I might find a use for the thing! This is a secret project and not featured on this guitar...it has been hanging for a very long time now and as I am not making the guitar (only the electronics part of it) and intended for an "artist" that can't be named...I can't give details at this time. In fact I did my bit in December'07!

It is a pretty simple idea though, instead of cutting the signal I installed a push pull pot that put a capacitor across a the switch and turned the switch from a normally open to normally closed switch meaning that a cap could be activated in the signal line to produce a "treble killer"...if you try a whole bunch of caps towards the smaller side of things you can get a weird mwah~mwah~mwah effect instead of bap~bap~bap kind of thing. Still, perhaps not something I would use a lot but there it is. If you speciallized in this kind of thing, I guess it might be cool to have two, one next to the other so you could kind of alternate the efffect...hahahaha... mwah~bap, bap, bap~mwah, mwah ~bap, bap :D

I also found a missile switch for this still "secret" project. It looks like a heavy duty toggle switch, but is spring loaded so it will return to on when the killing is done :D

I have had some problems with pops occasionally with kill switching things, the switch type and quality seems to be a factor. With the sustainer, the kill also kills the signal to the sustainer circuit and I have been thinking that perhaps a resistor could make for an improved kill switch function (like turning the volume down to almost minimum rather than shorting it out completely) which might fix this so the sustainer will continue to sustain even when the kill is used a lot. Too much killing and the sustainer will start to falter...still if you play loud enough, this is not a problem!

I moved to Sydney from Norway thinking it would be summer all year, and then this?

I can tell you still don't see yourself as a Sydney-sider yet or you would be having a go at Melbourne...It used to be sunny at least some time practically everyday, but not anymore...now every day brings some kind of extreme. Still, we have had some nice days lately...just gave me a scare, thought the car was going to get all dented up or something!

Welcome to Australia...did you pay money for this, I thought we were paying people to come here? In the old days of course they'd send you here for free but you could never leave...check your Visa, it may not have changed much!

pete

PS...I will do a proper thread eventually when I get some real pictures and sounds recorded. The first thing everybody wants to know is what the thing sounds like which is kind of the main thing. It is a great sounding telecaster with heaps of features, but it also has these unique sustainer sounds that defy the baby blue colour of the thing.

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Nice!

It is a pretty simple idea though, instead of cutting the signal I installed a push pull pot that put a capacitor across a the switch and turned the switch from a normally open to normally closed switch meaning that a cap could be activated in the signal line to produce a "treble killer"...if you try a whole bunch of caps towards the smaller side of things you can get a weird mwah~mwah~mwah effect instead of bap~bap~bap kind of thing. Still, perhaps not something I would use a lot but there it is. If you speciallized in this kind of thing, I guess it might be cool to have two, one next to the other so you could kind of alternate the efffect...hahahaha... mwah~bap, bap, bap~mwah, mwah ~bap, bap :D

It's like I can hear it already! :D

I also found a missile switch for this still "secret" project. It looks like a heavy duty toggle switch, but is spring loaded so it will return to on when the killing is done B)

I have had some problems with pops occasionally with kill switching things, the switch type and quality seems to be a factor. With the sustainer, the kill also kills the signal to the sustainer circuit and I have been thinking that perhaps a resistor could make for an improved kill switch function (like turning the volume down to almost minimum rather than shorting it out completely) which might fix this so the sustainer will continue to sustain even when the kill is used a lot. Too much killing and the sustainer will start to falter...still if you play loud enough, this is not a problem!

JayCar have some cool looking switches. They also have a missile style protective cover...

I can tell you still don't see yourself as a Sydney-sider yet or you would be having a go at Melbourne...

Apparently not, because I love Melbourne. Have been there a couple times now, and hopefully will find time to visit again before I move back to Norway in January.

Heggis

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Thanks...plenty has not been done...

I have started a thread for the guitar...please visit...Blueteleful Telecaster Project

This will be a slow reveal and discussion of all the many features of this guitar...

bluetele9.jpg

Including the kill switch as well as pics of how it and other things were done and a bit of Q&A on a lot of the other features. I will try and get some sounds up also, as this is the real proof of the instrument.

I am really pleased with the guitar and it is getting a lot of playing time...Everyone who has seen or heard about it have been very enthusiastic which has been great. This will be the first guitar in 5 years that I have actually show cased. It has a half sister in the works with some more "innovations" so watch out for that in the future...

Pete is there anything in guitar electronics you've not done, then re-done and completely altered and improved?

This guitar has been in the works for 6 months and been through a lot of changes. This has been the fourth complete rewire I think! It was wired as standard, at one point it had a GF modboard tremolo in it...so I am starting to feel like this guitar has been really testing me...

....when I have a shop to build one in......

Due to ill health and general disorganization, I have had to pick up and put this thing down a lot of times. For the last couple of weeks it had taken up residence on the kitchen table for rewiring.

The kill switch was the very last addition and something of an afterthought. It shows another way of doing it without it being a major feature or anything. A kill switch is perhaps one of the easiest modifications you can do...but perhaps I am missing something, I have heard Bucket head and Tom Morello, but otherwise...I wonder what is driving the kill switch phase!

Anyway...if you like the features of the guitar, look in on the thread and you may find other ideas to consider for any guitar project...

pete

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So...what do you reckon...GOTM?

Hell yeah!

i think the only thing i'd miss would be the series/parallel switches.

Funny you should mention that...I have no plans at all for those! This guitar has three very good and unique sounds with the selector and by pulling up on the volume control an extra funky "in between strat-like" quacky out of phase sound in the middle position. In addition the sustainer drive control operates my own "secret circuit" that gives a little distorted edge and "wild drive" at extreme settings and pulling that knob up the fabulous world of automatic screaming harmonic drive...

And you want a series/parallel switch!!! :D There's just no pleasing some people :D how would I fit all that into a tele without modification and get a battery in there as well!!!!

Seriously...a lot of people want a lot more than they need or would practically use. A few great sounds easy to get to is more than enough. Too much and you need a pilot's license to play the thing.

well, lemme tell you a story... (sad violin music)

I only have 2 guitars, a cheap Randy R. copy, an Epiphone Les Paul 100, and a Marshall MG15CDR. The LP-100 is a bolt-on, and i've changed/added a few things:

-Dimarzio Humbuckers (Super Distortion/Super 2[N])

-Push Pull Pots (ser/par for each PU)

-Grover Mini-Locking Tuners

-Schaller Straploks

and since is my only guitar in Eb (the other one is in Sabbath tune: C# ) i have to tweak some values to record my stuff and have a good sound. and it just so happens that the LP-100 has this warm tone while the PU are in series (the super distortion sounds amazing) and a sweet & clean bell-like tone (ala Stratocaster) while the pickups are in parallel. But since it's a typical LP (2 vols/2 tones) i've been thinkin 'bout mod it... again. i only use the neck volume for clean sounds (in parallel sounds pretty good) and to use the toggle as killswitch. so, i'm thinkin' bout re-wire the bridge volume as a Master Volume, and leave the B.PU tonepot unconnected.

the things i love about your guitar are the Kahler (i want one of those really bad...), the combination metal/tortoise-shell, the clever and very well hidden KS, and of course, the sustainer. If you ever think 'bout selling your own sustainers, i'd buy one (Shipping to Peru? lol). i'm serious... please... make one for me... B)

BTW, you said something bout a Kahler and a Les Pauls. Do ya have the 7200? Tell me more bout the Kahler (cos i know bout your sustainer, i used to comment @ the big thread, and even tried to make one of these, but i've failed...)

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Probably not the thread to reply to unrelated questions...but I guess we answered the kill switch and more and the tele does actually have a kill (the only one i have done on any of my guitars)...

Here is a sneek peek of the tele's half sister...

DSCF0324.jpg

Due to my poor, but improving photographic skills, it is not a good representative of the colour...it is actually a flamed golden yellow top with tortoiseshell pickups and again a khaler...is this the 7200 hybrid...whatever!

Maybe some tricky electronics and hidden features again, but wanting to retain this clean look however. I doubt I will be wanting to put a sustainer or anything on it...but I do have in mind some interesting ideas for coil cutting with tone controls...and maybe some other sneaky plans that may be of interest!

You will be waiting a while for this one I think even though half built because I am enjoying the tele so much.

In the last year I have been really trying to get "my sound" and style and work with that and to try find my way around basic digital recording. These guitars and another will be able to cover all the bases I think.

I was mentioning on another thread how a guitar's set up really effect your sound. A heavier guage string will give you a much more percussive edge and solid tone...a skinny set with a lower action, a thinner tone but definitely more speed, if that's your thing.

As the tremolo is a part of this "sound" I am going for, both guitars will be similar and familiar. The kahler can do all that a floyd can pretty much (doesn't really gargle though!) but I use to to scoop into and drop out of notes and chords or give chords a little flutter.

For the bright fender stuff, the tele excels, but for natural sustain and a warm sound the Les Paul is the go...between the two, they pretty much cover all the bases. The les Paul, with the shorter scale length should give me a little more speed and a lower action I suspect, and that is what I will be aiming for there.

A high priority is that my guitars are quiet...no noise or buzzes as a lot of music is also about the spaces between notes and the quieter the background noise, the better for me. It will also aid in the recording thing. I have been playing a lot lately and have been using a fender deluxe with a 15" extension stack and went to bed the other night not realizing it was on all night it was so quiet...perfect!

It just goes to show that with care and attention, even a squier can play great, this is for me one of the best guitars I have ever played!

My new LP is likely to have a new kind of coil splitting that uses a tone cap to reduce the treble on one coil retaining the high end on the other and the full humbucking effect. Also, it will be variable between full humbucker and this single coil sound...I like a master volume too. Potentially you could have a pickup cut switch to say take out the neck pickup when pulled and use the selector as a kill thing...but probably not something I would want for me...each to their own.

With those super distortions and higher powered pickups...it would be very difficult to get a decent clean tone...but if sabbath is your thing, then why not. My new HB's are likely to be pretty powerful I suspect...I have yet to hear them...I just liked the colour of them...very classy and unique and I imagine I can tweak them to taste with a bit of effort :D

...

On topic...the kill switch thing is fun...i still get a little clicking effect on mine...people don't think it might be a fad or something? There are occasions where it can e effective, but not enough for me to have a dedicated switch and make a style out of it...but I guess I am fairly old school!

pete

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I was mentioning on another thread how a guitar's set up really effect your sound. A heavier guage string will give you a much more percussive edge and solid tone...a skinny set with a lower action, a thinner tone but definitely more speed, if that's your thing.

well, i use regulars (Dimarzio's 9-46)

As the tremolo is a part of this "sound" I am going for, both guitars will be similar and familiar. The kahler can do all that a floyd can pretty much (doesn't really gargle though!) but I use to to scoop into and drop out of notes and chords or give chords a little flutter.

which one has better sustain? 7200 or 7300?

My new LP is likely to have a new kind of coil splitting that uses a tone cap to reduce the treble on one coil retaining the high end on the other and the full humbucking effect. Also, it will be variable between full humbucker and this single coil sound...

well, i prefer parallel instead of coil splitting. parallel is still humbucking

I like a master volume too. Potentially you could have a pickup cut switch to say take out the neck pickup when pulled and use the selector as a kill thing...but probably not something I would want for me...each to their own.

thought about that too. i don't want that. i'm still tryin to choose between a mini-toggle or a push-button... (only killswitch)

With those super distortions and higher powered pickups...it would be very difficult to get a decent clean tone...but if sabbath is your thing, then why not. My new HB's are likely to be pretty powerful I suspect...I have yet to hear them...I just liked the colour of them...very classy and unique and I imagine I can tweak them to taste with a bit of effort :D

well, both are pretty clean while using th clean channel. the super 2 sounds amazing in parallel (i barely use it in series). the SD has this strat 'crunch' sound when is used in parallel. i'll try to record some soundclips for you. The Super 2 is too bright (sometimes i miss the regular mudiness of my old pickups... but, oh my Hendrix, the clean sounds are just.. wow)

On topic...the kill switch thing is fun...i still get a little clicking effect on mine...people don't think it might be a fad or something? There are occasions where it can e effective, but not enough for me to have a dedicated switch and make a style out of it...but I guess I am fairly old school!

well, i'm a big Ace Frehley fan, and he used a lot the toggle effect as a killswitch, considering he only used the bridge pickup (Dimarzio Super Distortion) and clipped the wires from the other pickups.

also, i'm falling in love with the B.C.Rich (Neal Moser era) Bich. i highly recommend you to try the parallel and the coil-split. (the main difference is, basically, the hum)

any news 'bout your sustainer? :D can you make one for me? B)

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In my day regulars were 10-46 (which I use) and everything lighter was for banjos!

For info on the Kahler...check out...WammiWorld...the 7300 is for flat top guitars like the tele, the 7200 for stud types like a les paul with a carved top and set back neck typically. If you look at the latest GOTM there's a beautiful single pickup SG this month and it is so flat the kahler had to be set right down into the body!

Otherwise, they are the same...however if the tremolo wasn't expensive enough and you have unlimited funds...there are a range of parts made from different materials to give various effects. It is a permanent mod in case you are not aware and takes a little skill with a router especially on a finished guitar...not for the faint hearted!

What ever works for you. Different guitars and pickups do different things and of course there is the music. One of my favorite sounds is the secret 4th sound which is an out of phase switch. As the bridge pickup is so big and the neck skinny, putting the pickups out of phase creates a beautiful chimy quacky tone similar to position 2 on a strat...but on another guitar it might sound really bad...an out of phase HB on it's own almost always sounds just bad as the coils are too close together.

You will have to wait to see how I do a variable coil split...as will I!

thought about that too. i don't want that. i'm still tryin to choose between a mini-toggle or a push-button... (only killswitch)

Well...it's up to you...I have been involved in something recently with both and other killing effects...but as I say, not something that I use much so far...I am far removed from sabbath I'm afraid! Now...hendrix, got to love hendrix!

any news 'bout your sustainer? B) can you make one for me? B)

errrr... :D ...NO!

I thought I had avoided that pretty well and we are getting well away from the kill switch thread that has been hijacked here!

It matters not what part of the world you are in and I do hope to have something one day, but at the moment it is so time consuming and not cost effective to hand make such things. As you have tried to make one yourself, you know how difficult they can be. One of the most difficult parts is the installation (there are 12 wires coming off the circuit board alone!) and that I couldn't do. My versions don't suit every guitar either...HB guitars for instance would be very difficult.

It may have to remain DIY and I may offer a circuit or kit of some type to make it easier, but it will still be a pretty advanced thing. At the moment I am learning how to get the sound of the thing recorded and onto the net so that people can hear the broad range that is available...but that will only cause more people to want me to make them!

By the way...my thing is not a "sustainer" really, it has another name now and also sounds a little different again from both the sustainiac and fernandes versions as well as using a different design. Rember, it has taken 5 years to get it to this stage!

hope that answers all your questions...no one will ever find all this as it is so off topic :D ...that's what the sustainer thread is for!

pete

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In my day regulars were 10-46 (which I use) and everything lighter was for banjos!

hehehe, 9's suits perfect (small hands). i used to play with 8-38 (ultra light). i also use 11-50-something for C#

For info on the Kahler...check out...WammiWorld...the 7300 is for flat top guitars like the tele, the 7200 for stud types like a les paul with a carved top and set back neck typically. If you look at the latest GOTM there's a beautiful single pickup SG this month and it is so flat the kahler had to be set right down into the body!

yeah, i know 'bout wammiworld, and i even have the patent for the kahler, tons of pics, etc (im kinda obssessed). and i ask you 'bout the sustain, b'cos i saw a few LPs (Crimson Guitars and a few more) with no neck-angle and using the 7300. i also saw this LP-style, with no neck-angle, but using a recesed 7200. for aesthetics reasons, i liike better the 7200/LP-style. but since the 7300 is locked to the body, while the 7200 is floating...

Otherwise, they are the same...however if the tremolo wasn't expensive enough and you have unlimited funds...there are a range of parts made from different materials to give various effects. It is a permanent mod in case you are not aware and takes a little skill with a router especially on a finished guitar...not for the faint hearted!

i don't care bout that. many people thinks it's a profanity to say "Les Paul with tremolo". i don't. i dont even care bout the Gibson mojo/tradition thing. i want a versatile guitar to play Hendrix, Sabbath, Slayer, Metallica, Kiss...

of course the installation will be done by a luthier, not me.

What ever works for you. Different guitars and pickups do different things and of course there is the music. One of my favorite sounds is the secret 4th sound which is an out of phase switch. As the bridge pickup is so big and the neck skinny, putting the pickups out of phase creates a beautiful chimy quacky tone similar to position 2 on a strat...but on another guitar it might sound really bad...an out of phase HB on it's own almost always sounds just bad as the coils are too close together.

i've been thinkin' 'bout adding a phase-switch too, and use 1 un parallel, one in series...

or do something like this or add a rotary-switch as a tone control, and insert a "get rid of" switch for it. i barely use the tone pot.

You will have to wait to see how I do a variable coil split...as will I!

i don't know what's that, but sounds good. can you explain it to me?

Well...it's up to you...I have been involved in something recently with both and other killing effects...but as I say, not something that I use much so far...I am far removed from sabbath I'm afraid! Now...hendrix, got to love hendrix!

any news 'bout your sustainer? B) can you make one for me? B)

errrr... :D ...NO!

:D meanie... lol

It matters not what part of the world you are in and I do hope to have something one day, but at the moment it is so time consuming and not cost effective to hand make such things. As you have tried to make one yourself, you know how difficult they can be. One of the most difficult parts is the installation (there are 12 wires coming off the circuit board alone!) and that I couldn't do. My versions don't suit every guitar either...HB guitars for instance would be very difficult.

i understand. why 12 wires?

It may have to remain DIY and I may offer a circuit or kit of some type to make it easier, but it will still be a pretty advanced thing. At the moment I am learning how to get the sound of the thing recorded and onto the net so that people can hear the broad range that is available...but that will only cause more people to want me to make them!

if you do a DIY Kit, i'd buy it. but it sounds like you need to hire people to help you, 'cos you are the alternative. i won't pay hundreds of dollars if there's another good -and economic- option.

thanx for the info, i'll try to make a thread about "switches, pots and zillions of stuff" for people who like lots of options (like me) and their opinions 'bout that.

Edited by Anti-Idiot
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Ok...last reply on this thread as it is way off topic...but just in case someone reads this...

if you do a DIY Kit, i'd buy it. but it sounds like you need to hire people to help you, 'cos you are the alternative. i won't pay hundreds of dollars if there's another good -and economic- option.

Boutique stomp boxes cost hundreds of dollars because they are hand made, I can not hand make people "sustainers" effectively for free that may take all day to construct by hand...hiring people :D ...I know they don't work for free, I wouldn't! You can of course make your own stomp boxes for the price of parts however...so that is why I have a huge DIY sustainer thread.

I can make myself an economic and even improved custom sustainer, potentially you could learn to as well...but I can not make you a custom sustainer at a bargain price...I think you need to examine the meaning of DIY. In every instance that I have tried to assist people, it has cost me money plus the time!

A sustainer is more complex than a stompbox or a simple wiring modification (a good place to start and a kill switch is probably the easiest to start with), even the present commercial systems, and might even require permanent modifications to the guitar. The installation and the guitar is critical to success and my standards and conscious is too high to withstand having to explain or try to "fix" other people's mistakes with the thing...often even in the DIY versions, I have to nurse things along considerably.

With "Modification Addicts" (which you appear to be one :D ) the layers of complexity greatly increase and the thing is not compatible with some things or work poorly (like parallel HB's I have found due to dramatic loss of power in parallel mode).

A kill switch is one of the easiest modifications of all...a switch that simply shorts out the guitar when pushed...that is all it is!

A sustainer, on the other hand...is one of the most difficult wiring things you can do (I can't think of anything harder) requiring complex reconfiguration of the entire guitar's electronics just to turn it on and generates substantial electromagnetic forces and potential interferences that need to be controlled. Inevitably there will be problems which is why sustainiac suggest that they install them, or fernandes till recently only offered them within their own guitars and offer no real customer support for their products.

If or when I offer a kit, it will be just that...a kit to DIY your own sustainer. That still means you have to "do it yourself"!...

i understand. why 12 wires?

That is just from the circuit...the whole guitar has to rewired. input (2) output (2) harmonics (2) power (2) control (2) LED (2)...in addition....all the pickups need to be wired through the sustainer's on off switch, the selector and any other mods bypassed, the bridge pickup selected and the power connected....it all adds up and one bad connection or misplaced wire will not only result in the sustainer not working but quite often shorting the entire guitar so that it makes no sound at all. Of course, all of this is up to the installer...you...and so time consuming and difficult. As these things are not "guitar tech" things, paying someone to install it will cost hundreds in time...money that it appears that potential "customers" of any product I might produce are not prepared to pay me for it would seem and would make me look and feel pretty bad when it most likely does not work!

The kahler is another example where people would be prepared to pay a lot for a mass produced machine made hunk of metal (a very good one admittedly) and then likely the same again for a luthier to install it...yet for something as complex as electronics, people talk about "economics" and bargain prices. Theoretically, I should be offered more for a custom made hand built and 5 year R&D project, but the last time I asked what people would feel was a fair price for this plus parts and a day of my time...US$25!!!!

pete

ps...the LP kahler bolts on like a tunomatic and so is not "floating", in fact it uses 4 very deep 1/2 inch threaded bolts effectively!!!!

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if you do a DIY Kit, i'd buy it. but it sounds like you need to hire people to help you, 'cos you are the alternative. i won't pay hundreds of dollars if there's another good -and economic- option.

Boutique stomp boxes cost hundreds of dollars because they are hand made, I can not hand make people "sustainers" effectively for free that may take all day to construct by hand...hiring people :D ...I know they don't work for free, I wouldn't! You can of course make your own stomp boxes for the price of parts however...so that is why I have a huge DIY sustainer thread.

I can make myself an economic and even improved custom sustainer, potentially you could learn to as well...but I can not make you a custom sustainer at a bargain price...I think you need to examine the meaning of DIY. In every instance that I have tried to assist people, it has cost me money plus the time!

ops, sorry, excuse my ignorance :D

A sustainer is more complex than a stompbox or a simple wiring modification (a good place to start and a kill switch is probably the easiest to start with), even the present commercial systems, and might even require permanent modifications to the guitar. The installation and the guitar is critical to success and my standards and conscious is too high to withstand having to explain or try to "fix" other people's mistakes with the thing...often even in the DIY versions, I have to nurse things along considerably.

you are absolutely right.

With "Modification Addicts" (which you appear to be one B) ) the layers of complexity greatly increase and the thing is not compatible with some things or work poorly (like parallel HB's I have found due to dramatic loss of power in parallel mode).

i'm not an addict... i can control it (using a pot lol)

A kill switch is one of the easiest modifications of all...a switch that simply shorts out the guitar when pushed...that is all it is!

and since it doesn't suck tone, you can ignore it for a couple of months and the use it again

If or when I offer a kit, it will be just that...a kit to DIY your own sustainer. That still means you have to "do it yourself"!...

i'm ok with that (i'd still buy it) did you said 'addict'?

i understand. why 12 wires?

That is just from the circuit...the whole guitar has to rewired. input (2) output (2) harmonics (2) power (2) control (2) LED (2)...in addition....all the pickups need to be wired through the sustainer's on off switch, the selector and any other mods bypassed, the bridge pickup selected and the power connected....it all adds up and one bad connection or misplaced wire will not only result in the sustainer not working but quite often shorting the entire guitar so that it makes no sound at all. Of course, all of this is up to the installer...you...and so time consuming and difficult. As these things are not "guitar tech" things, paying someone to install it will cost hundreds in time...money that it appears that potential "customers" of any product I might produce are not prepared to pay me for it would seem and would make me look and feel pretty bad when it most likely does not work!

thanx for the info, i'll try to read some posts of that topic (i did it once, like, 3 years ago).

ps...the LP kahler bolts on like a tunomatic and so is not "floating", in fact it uses 4 very deep 1/2 inch threaded bolts effectively!!!!

i didn't mean floating (like a floyd). excuse my english. i mean "unlocked"? like a Les Paul, when you change strings, the tune-o-matic is loose (and sometimes it falls...). or does it have some locking device, like tonepros or something?

BTW, i've started another thread bout those things....

http://projectguitar.ibforums.com/index.php?showtopic=37558

hope to see you there...

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If you're making a kill switch.........do yourself a favor and use another switch such you can also make the "kill button" an "enable button" since some people will have fits with timing issues that might better suit them if the switch is used to enable rather than kill.

Edited by IcePac
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If you're making a kill switch.........do yourself a favor and use another switch such you can also make the "kill button" an "enable button" since some people will have fits with timing issues that might better suit them if the switch is used to enable rather than kill.

This is true, but you would need two switches, one to turn the guitar off and a switch to enable as you switch it on...this is more natural to play and much more like the old Pete Townsend, les Paul technique of turning the volume off on one pickup and switching between off and on.

You can with some practice get over it though...you have to be aware that you are playing the spaces with the switch, not the sound between them...playing the kills!

I still think it is a little over rated and there can be some difficulty in avoiding switch noise too. Still an easy enough mod to do

pete

EDIT....UGHHH...now you have me thinking of bunches of other kill switch variations...like an enable that turns on when the volume is turned to zero instead of an extra switch...

Edited by psw
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You could use a normal toggle switch to do this, without it being the selector switch. Then you wouldn't need two switches to do it, and one of the positions would be on, the other off. In that way you do make the switch an "enable" button, which is easier to use, but you don't have to turn the volume down on anything. 

Heggis

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http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wirin...tic=kill_switch

This toggle version does exactly that...one position on, one position off.

There is the danger of knocking it off and so killing the whole guitar. I did one with a toggle I found that was spring loaded (a so called missile switch) that I modified. The result is that it would spring back to on if you let go of the thing avoiding a dead guitar...plus, doesn't everyone want a "missle launch switch on a guitar!!!"

However, a pushbutton is also preferable if you are into tapping out a rhythm a la bucket head. To do this as the previous poster suggested would mean either the guitar dies with the button pushed (so you are playing the gaps in sound as I described) or you could arrange a switch as IcePac (welcome again :D ) points out to kill the guitar and then the switch would be all on.

In light of my recent guitar (see link below) with a hidden mini pushbutton, i was thinking that you could perhaps wire the switch to the volume control in some way so as the push button would over-ride it and send out a direct signal. The result would be to enable with the volume on nil and you may even get some interesting effects in between like half off~full on giving a kind of tremolo effect.

The strategy of switching in and out the volume control resistance may even alleviate the common switch click problems that can occur over the direct shorting.

pete

Next time i am playing with the soldering iron I may try a few variations...I might even find more of a use for the gadget. One of the problems with my present version on the tele is that when the signal is shorted, it also kills the signal to the sustainer circuit meaning it looses drive...better would be if the guitar could sustain regardless of the kill so there would always be sound coming out...you could get a very cool sequencer kind of sound in this case as the strings fade between fundamental and harmonic mode! As the guitar sustains with the volume control off, I suspect this may well be a solution...any thoughts?

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The song "burn" by the cure comes to mind as far as using sequencing the on/off nature but he could have also done that sound with a tremolo pedal with momentary bypass to make the sound momentarily non-tremolo.

Most likely is that they added the affect after the performance of his moniter amp while playing was not being "tremolo'd" since you can hear the notes held start to feedback and "harmonic up".

At least three ways to make that sound but I don't know which one they used.

I haven't done research on using transistor drivers for on/off switching of a guitar signal but we use these types of drivers for coils in cars as well as injectors in my job where I rebuild and troubleshoot automobile engine control units.

It's possible the amp would see a change in impedance through the device whether signal is off or on............not sure.

I'm sure a google search on BOUTIQUE TRUE BYPASS (no quotes) would net such a device but these 4 posts are all the time I may well have until next week.

Edited by IcePac
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